Ticket to Heaven

  • Thread starter Thread starter Socrates4Jesus
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Hey everyone,

I have enjoyed reading this greatly. Although I can tell from your posts that I am not at the same level as you all, I do wish to state something.

I am a revert whose learnings of Christ started in Protestant circles. I now understand more fully what the Catholic church teaches. I respect and agree with how you’ve presented this, I would say this.

God’s grace+ repentace + faith = good works.

My understanding and learning would completely reject the formula God’s grace = repentance + faith + good works. That once again puts it (in my mind) that good works earn my way to heaven. I know you’ve discussed this and I stated this is not true, but that is what I see with your mathematical equation.

I see the faith and works discussion very simply. St Fransis said preach the gospel continuously, when neccessary, Use words.

You may have a theological reason that would have you put the Math formula the way you did, but my gut instinct reacted very negatively to it. And if it would fit with your understanding, I respectfully ask you to consider my Math formula instead. If not, I will say in advance, you are probably right.
God Bless
p.s. I probably continue to lurk, hope you don’t mind:)
 
oops.

The quote from St. Fransis, is IF necessary Use words.

It is similar to the saying: works are faith in action.
God Bless
 
40.png
MariaG:
oops.

The quote from St. Fransis, is IF necessary Use words.

It is similar to the saying: works are faith in action.
God Bless
Click to expand...
I agree Maria

🙂
 
40.png
Tom:
Soc, I’m a pilot as in flying, helicopters and airplanes, so I’m no expert in the faith, just an old Catholic.
Vincent, that was beautiful.
Charles and Vincent sound much more “educated” in the faith. If we can help Soc, we’re here for you.
May the peace and love of our Lord, Jesus the Christ, be with you
Tom
Click to expand...
Tom:

I’ve always wanted to learn how to fly, but my eyesight is not so good.

Have you ever thought that faith & repentance are like two wings on an airplane?
 
40.png
Vincent:

  1. ]Christopher hears the Word of God preached to him, through which God moves Christopher’s heart and he responds by repenting of his sins and believing in Jesus Christ.* **
    If Christopher is a child below the age of reason at this point, his parents and the Church respond for him, just as in the Old Covenant, in which the parents and community responded, in the place of a male infant, to God’s invitation.

    “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him” (Acts 2:38).

    Vincent:

    Thank your post; it is extremely helpful.

    I’m starting with your point #1 because it is where i’m struggling at the moment.

    If St. Peter is really saying that water baptism is a requirement to be forgiven by God, then i’m on the road to “re-version.” So i want to really try to understand what he is getting at, here.

    So i prayed & asked God to show me what he meant by the words, “Repent and be baptized…for the forgiveness of sins…” I found Jesus’ words in the previous chapter of Acts helpful:

    “For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 1:5) Our Lord, then, told them that they would be baptized with (or receive power from) the Holy Spirit, which is exactly what happened just prior to St. Peter addressing the crowd with his words in Acts chapter 2.

    John the Baptist also said the same:

    “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I…He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.” (Matthew 3:11)

    and

    …“I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come…He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.” (Luke 3:16)

    These words have even greater significance in the light of the event of Acts chapter 2, where Dr. Luke records: “They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit …” (verses 3-4)

    In this context, then, doesn’t it make sense to say that what St. Peter was saying was this? that is, “Repent and be baptized with (or receive) the Holy Spirit, every one of you, for the forgiveness of sins.”

    This seems to be the case, for he goes on to say: “…And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 2:38)

    Isn’t this what St. Peter meant by the word baptized? (that is, receive the Holy Spirit as a gift from the Father)? I do not think anyone may be saved from hell without receiving the Holy Spirit. But What do you think?
 
Hey,

The question i posted above is not just for Vincent. If anyone has any opinions as to what St. Peter meant in Acts 2:38, i’d like to hear what you have to say.

To me, the context seems to provide strong evidence that he meant we are saved from hell by receiving baptism with the Holy Spirit (not baptism with water).

St. Paul seems to agree, as he wrote to the new priest Titus: “But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior…” (Titus 3:5-6)

Hence, we are saved by God “washing” us from the inside out with the Holy Spirit (not by our washing each other with water). Please let me know if i am misunderstanding Acts 2:38.

God bless,

Christopher
 
If you go back to page one of this thread you can read one of my previous posts that contains all the new testament verses on the regenerative nature of baptism. With baptism we receive the Holy Spirit. This was even shown demonstrably by Jesus when he was baptized by John and the Holy Spirit was said to have descended upon him in the form of a dove.

The issue that you have been wrestling with on the role of faith and works could be discussed for weeks on end. The discussion really needs to be simplified. One of the things I ask my evangelical and fundamentalist friends is the following: “Do you have to love God in order to be saved?” All but one person answered that you must, indeed, love God. The one person that did not answer in the affirmative, simply refused to answer the question because the handwriting was clearly on the wall. Loving God is something “we do.” And consequently this work of loving God is necessary for salvation.

Love of God is not something that simply comes from us, so that we have something to boast about. Instead the regenerated man has received from God the supernatural gift of charity which enables him to love God and his fellow man.

As mentioned in another post, our part is not to be understood as a wage. Instead, we have an inheritance. We are adopted sons and daughters. But an inheritance can be squandered and lost as evidenced by the “Prodigal Son.” The same parable shows that through repentance the inheritance can be restored. Inheritance in no way implies a wage. That is also clear from the parable. These are crucial concepts for our understanding.

Loving God determines our relationship with Him. If we do not love God than we have no relationship or inheritance. His grace fills us with power to do good works. His grace enables us to avoid and overcome sin. It is all by grace, but we must not forget that as Hebrews 10:29 points out, “How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?” To turn from the source of our salvation and to fail to love will surely cause us to perish.
 
Thanks for your response, Christopher.

Yes, St. Peter is referring to the reception of the Holy Spirit. What did St. Peter have in mind? Does water have anything to do with the Spirit?

We know that Jesus commands his disciples to “make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:19). Jesus is telling *them * to do something (baptise) to *others * (the disciples they make).

So, St. Peter and the other disciples obey this command in Acts 2:38. In light of Matthew 28:19, they invite their listeners so that they can do to them what Jesus commanded: make disciples of them and baptize them.

So how does one man baptize another, as Jesus commanded his apostles? We’ve seen examples elsewhere: St. Philip the deacon baptizing the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:36).

What’s obvious at this point is that when one man baptizes another, he uses water.

So, if Jesus commands his disciples to baptize others, and when one man baptizes another, he does so with water, and if St. Peter fulfills Our Lord’s command to baptize others in Acts 2:38, then it’s reasonable to conclude that the baptism described in Acts 2:38 involved water.

But St. Peter says to his listeners that in being baptized they receive the Holy Spirit. Where do find water being paired with the Holy Spirit in reference to entering the kingdom of Heaven? John 3:5.

So, by taking all these clues together, we find the Holy Spirit being given to us through “the washing of water with the word” (Ephesians 5:26). It’s the sacramental principle: God giving His Grace to us through material instruments blessed with His Word. Jesus gave us hints of this principle by restoring sight to a blind man with clay made from his spit (John 9:6). The Incarnation is the most vivid example: the invisible Creator becoming present to His visible creatures by becoming one of them.

Therefore, it’s no surprise that Jesus chooses to give us the gift of the Holy Spirit as He baptizes us, through his ministers, with water sanctified by His Word.

For this reason, the very same St. Peter who baptised in Acts 3:28 can harness the analogy of Noah and his family being saved through water and declare: “Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 3:21).
 
40.png
Pax:
…One of the things I ask my evangelical and fundamentalist friends is the following: “Do you have to love God in order to be saved?” All but one person answered that you must, indeed, love God. The one person that did not answer in the affirmative, simply refused to answer the question because the handwriting was clearly on the wall. Loving God is something “we do.” And consequently this work of loving God is necessary for salvation…Love of God is not something that simply comes from us, so that we have something to boast about…
Click to expand...
I think the answer to your question is no.

St. John makes this point: “Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God…This is love: Not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.” (1 John 4, verses 7 & 10)

When i was growing up Catholic, i had nothing but fear of God, but, as St. John also writes: “perfect love drives out fear.” I knew Jesus died for the world’s sins, but had no hope that he died for mine, since i was so evil. Compared to others i might have been a “saint,” but compared to Christ, well, i knew how far from Him i was & had no hope.

Then someone told me how Christ died for me & that living forever with Him was an absolutely free gift. The person who told me this was one who i admired, who had a joy & peace i never knew to that point in my life.

He had me read Romans 10:9-10, which said, “If you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” He told me i needed to pray for God’s forgiveness & believe i would receive it, & God would give it to me. It was too simplistic, i know, for i had no concept of repentance as i do now. But it was very real to me. For the first time in my life i felt no fear of God’s wrath, but an overwhelming sense of His love for me.

The feeling i felt, at first, was not love but relief & surprise, then joy & peace. Only after reading St. John’s gospel, some time later did i begin to feel real love for God. Prior to this, love was not possible for me–only fear. Love meant relationship & i had no clue that relationship with God was possible for anyone less than a priest until after this time.

So, for me anyway, i did not love God before the point where i first believed that Christ died for me, & i think this belief is essential for faith. As i Catholic i did not have this kind of faith (though i’m sure many Catholics do).
 
Socrates,

I’m on my way to work so I can’t give you the full response, but the apostle John makes it clear that we must love God to be saved. I’ll give you the response this evening.
 
40.png
Socrates4Jesus:
He had me read Romans 10:9-10, which said, “If you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” He told me i needed to pray for God’s forgiveness & believe i would receive it, & God would give it to me. It was too simplistic, i know, for i had no concept of repentance as i do now. But it was very real to me. For the first time in my life i felt no fear of God’s wrath, but an overwhelming sense of His love for me.
Click to expand...
This is the same teaching I was given in the evangelical church I attended. However, you have to admit that even the devil understood who Jesus was and believes (knows?) that he was raised from the dead. Jesus himself also said that not everyone who cries out “Lord” would make it into heaven.

Concerning the need for water Baptism. The preponderance of evidence in scripture does support its neccessity, at least to me and many noted Christians over the millenia.

The book of Acts provides clear evidence that the Baptism ministry was continued long after the death of John the Baptist. Off the top of my head I can think of three Apostles who are shown Baptizing, Phillip, Peter, and Paul. The Baptism of the enuch by Phillip and the Jailer and his family both support the necessity of Baptism. In both cases, it seems odd that Luke would call special attention to Baptism if it was not really important.

In addition to the quotes above, John 3:5 is understood by the Church to refer to Baptism. (I used to think, as a protestant, that this referred to the natural physical birth of a person, but in light of most Christians belief in the humanity of the unborn, my previous position became untenable).

Talk to you later!
 
40.png
Pax:
Socrates,

I’m on my way to work so I can’t give you the full response, but the apostle John makes it clear that we must love God to be saved. I’ll give you the response this evening.
Click to expand...
OK, i look forward to reading your next post.

Also, i do not want to leave the false impression that the love St. John is speaking of is just a feeling. I suppose my recent post was more an emotional than a rational one.

What i should have posted was that love as St. John describes it is much more than just affection toward God, it is an action (that is a work or deed).

Given this meaning of love, i still did not love God prior to my putting faith in Christ. The works i did–such as going to confession, receiving the Eucharist & attending Mass–were not done out of love but out of selfishness. That is, i did these deeds out of fear that i would suffer some consequences from God if i did not do them.

In contrast to this is the unselfish love that Christ showed by suffering for me & the kind He wants me to give back to Him by giving sacrificially to others. I really don’t think this kind of giving, sacrificial love is possible prior to conversion. Gandhi, for example, may have made sacrifices for others, but he did not do so out of love for Jesus Christ.

I think i am correct in saying that this kind of love is a result of, not a reason for, conversion. Love for Christ is the consequence of becoming a Christian, not the cause of such conversion. But what do you think?
 
40.png
Charles:
This is the same teaching I was given in the evangelical church I attended. However, you have to admit that even the devil understood who Jesus was and believes (knows?) that he was raised from the dead. Jesus himself also said that not everyone who cries out “Lord” would make it into heaven…
Click to expand...
True, Charles. That’s one reason why i recently posted that repentance & faith are like two wings of an airplane. One cannot get off the ground toward heaven without them! I’ve heard some describe repentance & faith as two sides of the same coin.

I don’t think St. Paul meant to say faith alone is enough to save someone from hell. Repentance is implied, here, i believe. After all, how may anyone sincerely call Jesus His Lord without having first having turned away from a life devoted to sin to a live devoted to Him? The devil, certainly, could never call Jesus his Lord, since he has rebelled against Him. And i am, as i’ve posted above, not advocating that Christians should not do good things, only that they should not trust that those good things help get them into heaven.

I guess one might say i am putting my belief about good works on trial & asking you & others to prosecute it. If my belief is found guilty BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT, then i will have to leave it behind & adopt another. Thus far, i am unconvinced that i am saved by God’s grace (or undeserved love) through faith & through repentance & through good works. So, i am still clinging to the belief that i am saved by God’s grace through faith & through repentance (but not through good works).

What it will take to convince me would be clear evidence from the Bible that good works are required to be saved from hell–that it is not just the sacrifice Christ made for me that gets me forever with Him. I want to be like the early Christians in Berea, for St. Luke wrote:

“…the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.” (Acts 17:11) (Acts 17:11) If the Bereans had a more noble character in God’s eyes because they did not even believe St. Paul before they put his words to the test of Scripture, i should do the same. So i hope you don’t think i’m being difficult. I’m just being careful to check everything against the words of the New Testament Scriptures & letting those words be the final court of arbitration.

Thanks for patiently answering my questions.

Christopher
 
40.png
Charles:
…The book of Acts provides clear evidence that the Baptism ministry was continued long after the death of John the Baptist. Off the top of my head I can think of three Apostles who are shown Baptizing, Phillip, Peter, and Paul. The Baptism of the enuch by Phillip and the Jailer and his family both support the necessity of Baptism. In both cases, it seems odd that Luke would call special attention to Baptism if it was not really important…
Click to expand...
I agree it is important. I’m just exploring whether i should put my trust in it, & other good works, to somehow merit my being rescued from hell. I firmly believe that all Christians should be baptized out of obedience to Christ.

However, i’m still concerned that trusting in anything i do for Him to merit my salvation is dangerous. I want to be sure this is what the Bible teaches before i make such a drastic change in whom i am trusting.

Thanks for your help.

Blessings to you,
Christopher
 
Christopher:

I can only speak personally, but I don’t have a fixation on any good works that God gives me the opportunity to do. I rejoice in them, sure. I praise God in thanksgiving for them, absolutely. I pray that God will give me more opportunities to do them. But to “trust” in the good works themselves is something I don’t do and hasn’t been recommended to me by any clergy or lay people that I know.

Yes, they’ve strongly urged me to do good works. But the motivation of trusting in them hasn’t been communicated to me by those who instructed me in the faith. I’ve served in a soup kitchen and prayed in front of an abortion clinic, but never did I have the thought that I was earning my way to Heaven: “Look, God, am I still in the Family? Look at all the things I’ve done!” Or, “Hey, I’ve fed 20 people on this chowline, so now you better forgive me of my sins and get me past them pearly gates!” None. Nada.

As far as I understand it, I don’t see anything in the Catholic tradition that motivates a person to trust in his works. Everything I’ve read places the trust in Christ, who makes the good works possible. Everything in the Catholic faith is essentially Christocentric, and so the idea that one must “trust” in good works as if it was something that we do on our own power reeks of Pelagianism.

Now as far as “merit” is concerned, as I’ve explained earlier, I know that as an adopted son of God in Jesus Christ, the more I “work out my salvation in fear and trembling” with the Grace of God within me, the deeper God brings me into the life of salvation. It’s a golden chain: Once God has saved me, God gives me the Grace to work out my salvation—>God rewards my working out with more Grace. Since it is God’s Grace that leads us to eternal life, we are said to “merit” or to be rewarded with eternal life. But do I have a fixation on it? No. Just on Christ.

None of us can “work out your salvation” unless we’ve got salvation in the first place. It’s like bodybuilding: a skeleton in a coffin can’t work out. Merit is all about God working in us so that we can exercise the muscles of our divine sonship that He gave us. And when you’ve got bigger muscles, you can lift more weight. And when you lift more weight you get bigger muscles. But unless God gives you the muscles (Salvation) and the power (Grace) to do them in the first place, you’re as powerless as a skeleton in a coffin.

I’ve quoted this earlier, but it bears repeating. St. Therese of Liseux was proclaimed a Doctor of the Church. She was just 24 years old when she died and yet, gave us some of the most profound mediations on our personal relationship with Christ:

“After earth’s exile, I hope to go and enjoy you in the fatherland, but I do not want to lay up merits for heaven. I want to work for your love alone. . . . In the evening of this life, I shall appear before you with empty hands, for I do not ask you, Lord, to count my works. All our justice is blemished in your eyes. I wish, then, to be clothed in your own justice and to receive from your love the eternal possession of yourself” (as quoted in CCC 2011).
 
I agree with you. You should not move from where you are until you have tested it and found this to be true. Make sure to pray frequently before reading posts and scripture for God to lead you to all righteousness.

Have you seen these Scriptures?

Romans 2:2-8, most especially verse 6 (which is actually from Psalms and Proverbs). verse 6 “who will render to each one according to his deeds”:7eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;8but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness–indignation and wrath,

These verses I believe show that what you do, good or bad, will be judged. So I guess I look at it like this, what I believe (or don’t believe in) and what I do (sin)can send me to hell. On the other hand what I believe (on the Lord) and what I do (which stems only from His grace) can send me to heaven. So the good I do does not earn me heaven, but I certainly will be judged on them.
"eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good …

This when taken with James 2:14-24 reflect the Catholic teaching.

18But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe-and tremble! 20But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

I know others have probably showed you these verses, but these are what Catholics mean when talking about works. You also need to remember, Luther was very much against this. He even added saved by Faith alone to his German translation. 500 years of Protestant language has gone towards proving Catholics wrong. (For if we are not wrong, why did they split?)

The Catholic teaching has been misrepresented (and taught incorrectly) as to good works earning heaven. It is simply the idea that if you do not have good works, your faith is dead. If your faith is dead, you won’t go to heaven. Of course there can be deathbed conversions. This is not addressing that. This is addressing people who confess to be Christians and are supposed to be living a Christian life. You can not be a Christian with Faith and not have good works. The book of James states Faith without works is dead.

I hope maybe I was able to put this in a slightly different way to help you understand. Either way, God Bless and keep seeking.

Hey Christopher, I just caught something. You refered to going to confession, Mass, and the Eucharist as works. The works I am refering to only stem from God’s grace, I would be unable to do them without His grace. I can’t remember the exact words, but Pope JP II said many Catholic need to have,( this is not what he said but this is how I remember it) a conversion of the heart. Too many are doing exactly what you did. Doing the sacrements but not out of love but fear. More catholics according to JPII need what basically amounts to is a “born again” experience and catch the fire of God. Maybe you are confused by the fact that because you didn’t have the Love for God while practicing the sacrements, that Love is not available through the sacraments?

God Bless
 
Also, I know I am not the judge and only God will decide, but to me, people who just go through the motions of the sacraments would be what the Bible refers to as Lukewarm Christians.

Just my opinion
Maria
 
40.png
Socrates4Jesus:
I agree it is important. I’m just exploring whether i should put my trust in it, & other good works, to somehow merit my being rescued from hell. I firmly believe that all Christians should be baptized out of obedience to Christ.

However, i’m still concerned that trusting in anything i do for Him to merit my salvation is dangerous. I want to be sure this is what the Bible teaches before i make such a drastic change in whom i am trusting.

Thanks for your help.

Blessings to you,
Christopher
Click to expand...
This is not an “either or” propostion. You never trust your works instead of Jesus. The teaching is that everything is by grace, through the merits of Jesus, by faith and works but not by faith alone. My next post will be a long one and will demonstrate the need for love of God. And yes, a person can love God before becoming Christian. Cornelius in the book of Acts is an example, as are members of Islam who love God, although they lack Christian understandings and knowledge of God and the Trinity. There love of God may be the very first step to full faith in Jesus as the second person of the Blessed Trinity and our Lord and Savior.
 
Socrates,

You indicated that you do not believe that it is necessary to love God in order to be saved. Your later post may have modified your position a bit, but I will submit the following anyway. To suggest in anyway that love of God is not necessary for salvation is contrary to both scripture and common sense.

Furthermore, we are told in 1Cor 8:3 that “…anyone that loves God is known by him.” If you are not known by God then you are not saved. This is given even greater emphasis in 1 Cor 16:22 where Paul tells us, “Let anyone be accursed who has no love for the Lord.” In James 1:12 we are told that “…the crown of life is promised to those who love him.” This same statement is repeated in James 2:5.

And the apostle, John, defines for us what love of God is when he says in 1Jn 5:3 “For the love of God is this, that we obey his commandments.” And Jesus, Himself, says in John 15:10 that “If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love.” Obviously, if we do not abide in God’s love we are not saved.

In John’s vision in the book of Revelation, Jesus warns members of the church at Ephesus that they might be destroyed if they do not repent and return to the love they once had. This is very clear in Rev 2:4-5 where Jesus says, “But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember then from what you have fallen, repent and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.” Then again just before addressing the transgressions of the church at Thyatira, Jesus says in Rev 2:19 that, "I know your works, your love and faith and service and patient endurance, and that your latter works exceed the first.” These verses are significant in two ways. They show the necessity of love in the plan of salvation, and they show that both love and faith are referred to as works. They are supernatural gifts of God, but they are works in so far as “we love” and “we believe.”

This linkage is also made by Paul in Galatians 5:6 where we read, “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love." Likewise, Paul tells us the importance of love when he says, “So faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love”(1 Corinthians 13:13). Paul also says in Corinthians 13:1-13 that “IF I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing…….Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. …So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”

Finally, let’s look at the very words of Jesus in Luke 10:25-28 where we are told, "And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read?” And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” And he said to him, “You have answered right; do this, and you will live.” Let be said here and now, that nothing trumps the words of Jesus.

Love of God is something essential and it is a work that we do. If we do not love God we are at emnity with God, and we will be choosing eternal separation from God.
 
40.png
Socrates4Jesus:
… i’m still concerned that trusting in anything i do for Him to merit my salvation is dangerous. I want to be sure this is what the Bible teaches before i make such a drastic change in whom i am trusting.
Click to expand...
Remember, it is my position and the position of the Church that you don’t “merit” salvation. God’s gift is freely given and there is nothing we can do to earn it. Even in the catechism quotes I posted earlier it states that even when we speak of meriting something through good works, we still acknowledge that those merits themselves are first and foremost from God. He comes to us, thank goodness!

I love Revelations 3:20
“Behold I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will enter his house and dine with him and he with me.”
Click to expand...
It is another example of what I am talking about. Christ comes all the way to us, but then stops. Does he have to wait for us to let him in? Of course not, He’s God! But he does nonetheless.

The question becomes why. And here is where I have been trying to make my own small contribution to this discussion (now it’s your turn I hope to pardon me for being difficult. If it seems I’m repeating myself it’s because I am. Sorry for that!). The bottom line for me is that he demands something of us not because he needs anything (again, He’s God!) but because he loves us.

Demands something because of love? It almost sounds contradictory, but I don’t think it is. He loves us so much he gave us the freedom to choose to accept his grace. Without the choice He gives us we would be little more than robots, and that was not God’s plan. I’m not sure how to explain this, so I hope you see where I’m going: if God just gave us his grace without asking for anything in return, then there would be no choice but for us to accept it. If we had no choice to accept it, then we wouldn’t be truly free. Without giving us freedom God’s love would not be complete. God is love. So in order to give us the choice and prove his love by making us truly free, he does ask something of us, even though as God he needs nothing. What he demands is for us to live a holy life (we have called this Faith, Works and so on, but this description from Paul is the best I’ve heard so far). Living the holy life does not merit salvation, but it is the demand God makes of us to prove his love.
If you love something, set it free. If it comes back it’s yours. If it doesn’t it never was.
Click to expand...
God loves us this much. He demands a holy life because of his love.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top