Timothy Gordon Fired

[gracepoole]

Perhaps this is the disagreement, then. I think that what he does on his own time should not be the standard for how he is judged by his employer.

Can he be in an active homosexual relationship, then, and still teach at a Catholic institution?

 

[JulianN]

know I’m not going to change your mind, but let me just ask you this; where do you draw the line? If a rude tweet or comment is grounds for firing someone, what unfortunate actions isn’t? Are we to require everyone to be a living saint just to make a livelihood?

What if he tweeted support for, say, birth control? Equally opposed to Church teaching.

Or Communion for divorced and remarried?

 

[PatienceAndHumility]

Fair point- it may well have not been a violation of his contract. But this legalistic approach misses the spirit of the argument- one holding such a post, particularly with impressionable students as your subjects, ought to prioritise temperance with their social media presence.

If the school did not put this in the contract, this might also be viewed a failing on their part. In the internet age, it would make sense to include such limitations. It is a public post, as such a sacrifice (as to temper your public expression of thought- particularly if it e.g. lacks charity in it’s deliverance) is to be expected.

 

[Phatmass1]

Tim also said in his last video that Ahmaud Arbery was murdered justly by “citizen justice”. He said the murder of George Floyd was an “alleged crime.” I’ve personally witnessed people use the n word on his page without him calling them out. The students and parents had justified concerns. He’s doing a great job playing the victim and his go fund me is almost at 50k. Anyways play stupid games win stupid prizes.

 

[Theban]

I don’t see what this has to do with anything?

But sure, I don’t think the school should pry into the sexual life of all it’s employees and fire them on any private offense. If he isn’t bringing any of it to the classroom and there is nothing to point at in his work which damages the spiritual health of the students, why would you fire him?

one holding such a post, particularly with impressionable students as your subjects, ought to prioritise temperance with their social media presence.

I don’t disagree. Yet I think ought is a very wide word, encompassing a lot of things. I think that if we’re only going to hire perfect saints to teach our children that would be great if we could find any. And since we can’t, I say we make do with those who simply do the job well.

 

[JulianN]

Only if this is specified. Gordon says that his termination was a violation of his contract, so it seems he has not agreed to censor his views in public in order to work at that school.

I would bet a fair amount of money that his contract included some clause that he is to abide by Church teaching in public and private. If those clauses didn’t exist, the Church would not be able to fire people who are living in relationships outside of marriage.

 

[Phatmass1]

I think that if we’re only going to hire perfect saints to teach our children that would be great if we could find any.

They don’t need to be perfect saints. Just not racist bigots who say Arbery was justly murdered by “citizen justice” and the murder of George Floyd was an “alleged crime”.

 

[PatienceAndHumility]

Point taken, re “ought”. I suppose what this boils down to in Tim’s case is that he is working for a Catholic institution who will ultimately be the arbiters of that judgement (i.e. of how he “ought to prioritise temperance”). And as such, they deemed his actions on social media inappropriate.

So in answer to your point re teachers, making do with those who “simply do the job well” must also entail an element of submission on the teachers part to the authority of the relevant institution.

 

[Theban]

I would bet a fair amount of money that his contract included some clause that he is to abide by Church teaching in public and private.

All I know about his contract is what he has said about it, which is that it didn’t include censoring himself on twitter. That means he is either telling the truth, lying, or he has misunderstood his contract. I would never even dare to accuse someone of lying without serious grounds for that accusation, least of all a complete stranger, and if he has just misunderstood his contract it isn’t fair to fire him.

They don’t need to be perfect saints. Just not racist bigots who say Arbery was justly murdered by “citizen justice” and the murder of George Floyd was an “alleged crime”.

Don’t you think that’s a little harsh? I don’t know the man, but he doesn’t strike me as a racist bigot. And I doubt he grounds his opinions on Arbery and Floyd on racism. Nevertheless, what does it matter regarding his job? Either he affects the students poorly and that can be the reason for firing him, or he doesn’t and everything is fine (for the students).

 

[gracepoole]

@Theban, from the employment application for the high school in question:

If employed, I agree to engage in no outside activity that would involve a material conflict of interest with or could reflect adversely on the Diocese. I understand this decision to rest with the Diocese.

https://garces.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/EmploymentApplication.pdf

 

[JulianN]

All I know about his contract is what he has said about it, which is that it didn’t include censoring himself on twitter. That means he is either telling the truth, lying, or he has misunderstood his contract.

Catholic employee contracts are rarely that granular. They don’t actually spell out every way one can fail to publicly uphold Church teaching.

I’m sure his contract didn’t mention Twitter. But it also probably didn’t specify abortion, contraception, gay marriage, unwed pregnancy, etc. That doesn’t mean you get to post pro-choice opinions on Twitter and then claim it “wasn’t in your contract.”

 

[Theban]

from the employment application for the high school in question:

Fair enough, that looks pretty straight forward to me. I don’t agree with that way of thinking, and I find it a bit draconian; especially the “the terms may be changed with or without notice” part, but it seems he has agreed to let them do whatever they want when he signed up for the job (provided this is the same application form he sent when he was hired).

 

[Mac]

Context matters. And he clearly stated his intent and explained exactly what he meant in the interview.

 

[gracepoole]

Context matters. And he clearly stated his intent and explained exactly what he meant in the interview.

No, he tried to cover his behind in the interview. It would be difficult if not impossible to read “Let’s dispatch some mobs with force!” as anything but a call for mob violence.

 

[Blueberry]

That’s who I meant. Sorry I wasn’t clear.

 

[MarkRome]

Tim Gordon has some interesting perspectives. He all but said women working outside of the home is a sin. I am sure that goes over well with his female married colleagues. I am sure he thought it was his God-given duty to mansplain his thoughts on Twitter.

 

[Newhills]

Maybe instead of firing a man who holds a solid foundation & understanding of Catholicism, as well as uses a platform to reach people worldwide, they should start firing every teacher who supports abortion & gay “marriage”.

Maybe fire every Catholic teacher who teaches views that directly oppose the Church.

I wonder how many teachers would even be left out there if the schools did this.

More Catholic schools need more teachers like Tim Gordon.

 

[gracepoole]

Again, the man advocated mob violence. Why would “Catholic schools need more teachers” like him?

 

[PetraG]

More Catholic schools need more teachers like Tim Gordon.

What makes you single him out as an example of Christian virtue?
I don’t see any, nor do I see any repentance for what were some very reprehensible and very public statements that are clearly in violation of the plain meaning of the New Testament and counter to the tenets taught in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

 

[JulianN]

Maybe instead of firing a man who holds a solid foundation & understanding of Catholicism, as well as uses a platform to reach people worldwide, they should start firing every teacher who supports abortion & gay “marriage”.

Maybe fire every Catholic teacher who teaches views that directly oppose the Church.

Are you under the impression they don’t fire teachers who support positions on social media that are antithetical to Church teaching and the stated mission of the employer?

They already do this. And people here applaud it. Why is this particular Church teaching different?