Timothy Gordon Fired

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Theban said:
I know I’m not going to change your mind, but let me just ask you this; where do you draw the line? If a rude tweet or comment is grounds for firing someone, what unfortunate actions isn’t? Are we to require everyone to be a living saint just to make a livelihood?
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An unfortunate action not put out there for the witness of millions of people would be one kind. This is 2020. The gravity of posting to the internet isn’t something that any adult who teaches children about proper use of the internet would not know.

Also, what he did and said goes beyond the kind of rudeness that a person of normal self-possession might fall into if they are angered, disappointed or otherwise not at their best. It wasn’t just a snarky remark or an over-statement. It went well beyond that.
 
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You keep saying he called for mob violence. Where? When? I cannot find anything remotely close to that.
 
Minks said:
But, 1) the people destroying millions of dollars of property in one city—billions across the nation—and beating up people, even killing them, and, 2) people who are not advocating stopping that criminal behavior are not jerks? Hmmmmmm. And those mindsets are role models for Catholics? Hmmmmm.
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Obviously that’s wrong too.
 
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From the first post in this thread – a tweet from Gordon:
“Best news I’ve heard all planned riot/plandemic. As Vincent Vega (the John Travolta paid assassin character from Pulp Fiction) says: ‘It’d been worth them doing it just so we could’ve caught them doing it.” Let’s dispatch some mobs with force!”
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You are kidding me. That is not a call for mob violence. It is a movie quote! To me it is a call for the authorities to quell the rioting, looting, arson, and assault. And, maybe, if they don’t take action, then to defend life and property ourselves. Which wouldn’t be a mob in the negative sense of the word but regular people practicing self defense. All of which IS catholic.
 
The inner quote is from Pulp Fiction . The surrounding content, including “Let’s dispatch some mobs with force,” is Gordon’s language.
 
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gracepoole said:
The inner quote is from Pulp Fiction . The surrounding content, including “Let’s dispatch some mobs with force,” is Gordon’s language.
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Okay, got it. This makes much more sense. Dispatching mobs without it being from the movie, to me seems to mean to get rid of the mobs, not send our own mobs. And fully a Tim Gordon use of language instead of taking the easy words to say the same thing.
 
gracepoole said:
If employed, I agree to engage in no outside activity that would involve a material conflict of interest with or could reflect adversely on the Diocese. I understand this decision to rest with the Diocese
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That’s a catch-all clause if I ever saw one.
 
PetraG said:
Everyone’s professional organizations care what their employees publicize literally to the whole world. This is why wise people don’t say things on social media (let alone their blogs!!) that aren’t compatible with what they would say to their employer or to their clients directly.
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I feel like I’ve already said what I have to say on this, but let me just clarify that I strongly disagree with this view of the nature of an employment. I think we ought to hire workers, and not walking embodiments of whatever values the company they work for espouse.
PetraG said:
An unfortunate action not put out there for the witness of millions of people would be one kind. This is 2020. The gravity of posting to the internet isn’t something that any adult who teaches children about proper use of the internet would not know.
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I just don’t see what this has to do with anyone’s job, though. And I don’t see why the number of people in the audience should make a difference regarding the action itself.
PetraG said:
Also, what he did and said goes beyond the kind of rudeness that a person of normal self-possession might fall into if they are angered, disappointed or otherwise not at their best. It wasn’t just a snarky remark or an over-statement. It went well beyond that.
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This is your opinion, and I’m not saying I disagree, but what is the problem? A person lacking in fortitude might be prone to make mistakes based on their emotions, but is it less acceptable when someone is lacking in prudence and makes mistakes based on indiscretion?

You could argue that prudence is a higher virtue than fortitude, and draw the line for what is acceptable somewhere in between, but, in all honesty, that sounds very arbitrary and even uncharitable to me. All the same, my basic view is that an employee should only be held accountable to his employer for how he performs in his employment.
 
gracepoole said:
Better advice would be to stay inside, lock your doors, report any malfeasance to authorities, and permit law enforcement to do its job.
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As bricks are thrown through the window? That might be a tad naïve… Are you going to politely ask them to wait for law enforcement to show up if they barge through the doors? I’d bet a lot of money that many law enforcement would not be opposed to a little citizen help in some places. Also, the right and obligation of self defense is a Catholic doctrine. CCC 2263-5
 
Socrates92 said:
That’s a catch-all clause if I ever saw one.
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Try this one:

“I understand that the Diocese may change the terms and conditions for my employment with or without notice.”

I don’t know if this is normal in America, but if I had seen something like that in an employment contract there’s no way I would sign it.
 
Yeah, no kidding. This diocese sounds like a joke. I hope Gordon finds something better. Shouldn’t be too difficult.
 
Anicette said:
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Tis_Bearself:
And if Taylor Marshall endorses this guy, that’s just another nail in the coffin of Marshall’s credibility.
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Grace Pool had made another thread about it. T Marshall had "fired " Timothy Gordon from his show…
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Keep in mind that’s apparently because T Marshall endorsed the SSPX and T Gordon pushed back on that…

It seems a messy situation.

One thing I didn’t mention in an earlier comment but will add here: My critiques of T Gordon’s mannerisms aside, I do hope he finds profitable work soon: especially for the sake of his child with special needs. I imagine it’s a frightening thing to be out of work with a family to feed, and it sounds like getting fired from this school is coming close after getting ‘non-renewed’ by T Marshall. I pray for Timothy Gordon and his family, that they find their way through this and out the other side, into even more light and peace than before.
 
Indeed- of course we are all free to watch what we want within reason. That is not in dispute. This is about whether some films are objectively bad for the soul (and yes I agree it probably needs its own thread!).

My experience has been the contrary- when I’m truly at peace and in a state of grace, watching a movie like PF disrupts that spiritual state. Not so much with its violence, but it’s lewd references etc.

Re the Passion. I agree, I watch it most Good Fridays. Again, it’s not the violence in PF or Godfather and other contemporary “great” films. It is their invitation to temptation that imo is objectively dangerous for our souls.

Agreed, great discussion Brother. Pax Christi!
 
Socrates92 said:
Yeah, no kidding. This diocese sounds like a joke. I hope Gordon finds something better. Shouldn’t be too difficult.
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Probably not with the Church if he’s going to disagree with that employment clause —it’s become pretty standard in most dioceses.

Are we going to be consistent and say that those who advocate against other Church teaching on social media should also be protected from firing —say those who are pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, pro-contraception?
 
I remind many posters that maybe he wasn’t fired for the tweet about the mobs, but also for asking if a priest is “gayer” than another person.

That seems hardly defensible, even if the Diocese’s contract is abiguous.
 
JulianN said:
Are we going to be consistent and say that those who advocate against other Church teaching on social media should also be protected from firing —say those who are pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, pro-contraception?
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What Church teaching did he advocate against? He was fired for making the diocese look bad, somehow, not for a heretical statement.
 
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