Tired

[NaturalEnquirer]

God could have taken all these people in their sleep or allowed them to die a peaceful death. But no, rather he turned his chosen people into a pack of bloodthirsty wolves who brutally slaughtered people who were simply occupying territory that they wanted. That doesn’t seem like a loving thing to do.

Well, I was talking about the firstborn. We don’t know much about how they died. Doesn’t really matter, I guess. Dead is dead, right? Why does the physical mechanism of their death affect the morality of it?

I also don’t understand why you’re deliberately putting the harshest possible spin on the events. Yes, the Israelites killed. But why this “bloodthirsty wolves” or “territory that they wanted” business? An equally Biblical claim would be that they were “extremely reluctant soldiers fighting to liberate a country from evil oppressors”. Remember, the Israelites enemies weren’t exactly nice guys themselves.

This whole story just confuses me. We hear all this stuff in the New Testament about love and forgiveness. We hear that God will forgive you no matter what you do.

Then along comes Ananias and Saphira. They sold their land to come follow the disciples, but they decided to hold a little of the money back for themselves. That doesn’t actually sound too unreasonable to me. They probably were figuring that this whole Christianity thing is new and might die out in a year, so we better have something just in case it’s not actually from God. If they were selfish, they wouldn’t have sold their land in the first place.

Granted that lying about it to Peter wasn’t the best thing, but it doesn’t seem like the worst thing in the world. Their faith wasn’t as strong as others who were 100% sure of Christianity, but they were doing a lot more than most were. And yet God strikes them dead for lying. It doesn’t seem like something a loving and forgiving God would do. A loving God would strengthen their faith so they would be able to let go of that extra money they were holding on to.

Here again, you’re deliberately adding stuff to the story to reinforce the point that you seem to want to take. None of your speculations about Ananias and Saphira can be found in the scripture.

We don’t know how much of the money they held back. We don’t know why they did it. We don’t know what they planned to do with the money. We don’t know if they had any faith at all. We don’t know if they were open to faith. We don’t know, we don’t know, we don’t know. So why are you so eager to believe that God is the bad guy here?

It seems like people used God as a way to try to control things they did not have control over or understand.

It’s definitely true that our concept of God has changed over the millenia. I can understand being uncomfortable with the “God of the Gaps” idea, where God is continually squeezed further and further into the receding areas that we have little knowledge of.

But… does our increasing knowledge of regular laws in the universe necessarily change the possibility of God’s existence? I mean, even “complete” scientific knowledge can’t answer certain questions, like why there is a universe at all. Or the validity of human reason, or free will, etc. There are a lot of independent arguments that point strongly towards something transcendent.

That’s all I have time for right now. Hope it helps.

Peace!

 

[Awake]

Well, I was talking about the firstborn. We don’t know much about how they died. Doesn’t really matter, I guess. Dead is dead, right? Why does the physical mechanism of their death affect the morality of it?

Well, I guess philosophically speaking, there are more and less humane ways to kill somebody. But we’re getting sidetracked here. The fact that God commands killing, regardless of how, doesn’t seem compatible with what is taught about love and forgiveness.

I also don’t understand why you’re deliberately putting the harshest possible spin on the events. Yes, the Israelites killed. But why this “bloodthirsty wolves” or “territory that they wanted” business? An equally Biblical claim would be that they were “extremely reluctant soldiers fighting to liberate a country from evil oppressors”.

Because that’s what it comes off as so many times. Read God’s command in Deuteronomy 20:10 - 20:20 and then read what the Israelites did in Joshua 10:16 - 10:42. It’s genocide again and again and again.

Remember, the Israelites enemies weren’t exactly nice guys themselves.

What did all of these tribes do to deserve genocide? The Israelites were in Egypt, and then upon getting away from the wrath of the Pharaoh, they proceeded so slaughter countless tribes who were in their way of settling down in the promised land.

Here again, you’re deliberately adding stuff to the story to reinforce the point that you seem to want to take. None of your speculations about Ananias and Saphira can be found in the scripture.

We don’t know how much of the money they held back. We don’t know why they did it. We don’t know what they planned to do with the money. We don’t know if they had any faith at all. We don’t know if they were open to faith. We don’t know, we don’t know, we don’t know. So why are you so eager to believe that God is the bad guy here?

I am not eager to make God the bad guy. I am trying to understand how all of God’s actions in scripture are compatible with a loving God.

We don’t have all the facts about Ananias and Saphira, so all we can do is speculate. From my reading of it, they seemed like basically good people who lacked complete faith in God. To strike them dead for lying doesn’t seem like a loving thing to do.

No, we don’t know all the facts. But yet there are many things in the Bible like this that makes people’s stomach churn. When some try to explain how God’s actions were just, others passively nod while secretly wondering how that could be the right. But when I question how these actions could be just, I’m instantly accused of being eager to believe that God is the bad guy.

It’s definitely true that our concept of God has changed over the millenia. I can understand being uncomfortable with the “God of the Gaps” idea, where God is continually squeezed further and further into the receding areas that we have little knowledge of.

But… does our increasing knowledge of regular laws in the universe necessarily change the possibility of God’s existence? I mean, even “complete” scientific knowledge can’t answer certain questions, like why there is a universe at all. Or the validity of human reason, or free will, etc. There are a lot of independent arguments that point strongly towards something transcendent.

No, science doesn’t have all the answers and I am not one of those people who demands scientific proof for everything, otherwise it’s not real. But it’s quite a leap to say that since science doesn’t have the answer to why we’re here, Catholicism must be true.

 

[HiggDo]

But I don’t desire to be an atheist. If I did, there wouldn’t be any problem at all. I wouldn’t bother asking everybody for advice and I wouldn’t spend so much time worrying about it.

Awake,

All humanity shares in this struggle you are personally living out. Christians have much in common with all human beings, even atheists. While atheists struggle with the temptation of belief against their disbelief, Christians often struggle with the temptation of disbelief against their belief.

From reading your posts, it appears to me that you want to believe and are trying to believe which, puts you more in the class of Christian than atheist. And a darn good Christian at that!

Embrace your struggle! The struggle means you’re alive! It is who you are and you are precious in the site of God! Do not feel guilty or sad because of your state of being. Trust that it is personally where you need to be at this stage of your life and that God is walking beside you, smiling upon you with great love. Allow for the possibility that God knows what he is doing with you and have faith and hope that you will endure even these times because you are his!

Consider this from Romans 11:

“For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.”

Think about Matthew 14, when Peter got out of the boat and began to walk on water… even after having walked with Jesus, witnessed his teachings and his miracles he still began to sink in the water in his moment of doubt. How did Jesus reply? He brought light to Peter’s disbelief but still lovingly saved him. He didn’t rebuke Peter or cast him into hell…

Consider this:

Psalms
Chapter 42
1
For the leader. A maskil of the Korahites.
2
As the deer longs for streams of water, so my soul longs for you, O God.
3
My being thirsts for God, the living God. When can I go and see the face of God?
4
My tears have been my food day and night, as they ask daily,“Where is your God?”
5
Those times I recall as I pour out my soul, When I went in procession with the crowd, I went with them to the house of God, Amid loud cries of thanksgiving, with the multitude keeping festival.
6
Why are you downcast, my soul; why do you groan within me? Wait for God, whom I shall praise again, my savior and my God.
7
My soul is downcast within me; therefore I will remember you From the land of the Jordan and Hermon, from the land of Mount Mizar.
8
Here deep calls to deep in the roar of your torrents. All your waves and breakers sweep over me.
9
At dawn may the LORD bestow faithful love that I may sing praise through the night, praise to the God of my life.
10
I say to God, “My rock, why do you forget me? Why must I go about mourning with the enemy oppressing me?”
11
It shatters my bones, when my adversaries reproach me. They say to me daily: “Where is your God?”
12
Why are you downcast, my soul, why do you groan within me? Wait for God, whom I shall praise again, my savior and my God.

Fear not my friend, God loves you. He has called you by name. Surely he will rescue you. Place the hope for your future in the possibility that he is and leave the rest to him who loves you.

Trust in the Lord of your dawn that one day your faith will blossom by his love and then you will truly sing praise to the Lord!

He loves you, and I love you.

 

[Michael96]

Hi Awake

I sympathise. The same happened to me, and I spent many years as an atheist (probably 20 years flipping between atheism and agnosticism).

Now many may find what I’m going to say crazy (or even objectionable), but here goes…

Those atheist years were not “dark” years of my life. Once I got over the initial loss of faith (and that was intially troublesome) I started to read and think about ethics, philosophy and science (I’m a scientist by profession anyway). I wasn’t a “worse” person than before; my morals didn’t degenerate; and I wasn’t miserable. I was happy, content and moral. I never felt the need to “attack” religion and always maintained a very high level of respect for religious beliefs (I just didn’t have them anymore; they’d gone).

And 20 years later Christ, through a Muslim, led me back to faith (and I ended up here in the Catholic Church; though I came to faith again outside of any Church so I will never be able to see Catholicism as the “only” way, because it wasn’t the way back to Christ for me).

So I would honestly say that the world won’t collapse for you, and if you use the time and intellectual “freedom” well then it may ultimately enrich your life. Maybe God has a reason that some of us spend time without faith. All I would say is never burn any bridges and always keep an open heart and mind (don’t feel like you need to defend your position by attacking religious beliefs); I really do trust God leads us back when the time is right.

God is with you Awake. Follow your heart, be honest with yourself, and make the most of the journey wherever you go. When the time is right (it may be tomorrow or it may be longer) you’ll be welcomed back into the Christian fold with open arms and a fatted calf (or tofu if you prefer).

God bless you +

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Well, I guess philosophically speaking, there are more and less humane ways to kill somebody. But we’re getting sidetracked here. The fact that God commands killing, regardless of how, doesn’t seem compatible with what is taught about love and forgiveness.

What happens if your child does something bad the first time? You probably correct them, tell them not to do it again. Then they do it a second time. Maybe you’ll give them another warning. This is in the nature of love. Then they do it a third time. You can see they’re ignoring your words, so you have to take some more forceful action to get them to understand. Maybe you’ll spank them. Maybe you’ll give them a time-out. You’ll do something they don’t like to get them to stop doing the bad thing.

That God kills some people is no more incompatible with his love and forgiveness than is a parent sometimes punishing a child for doing wrong things. It is in the nature of love to discipline a child for doing bad things, for otherwise the child will grow up spoiled. Love wants what’s best for the child.

Also, consider the child’s perspective when the parent is punishing him. The child feels that the parent is doing something bad. The child hates what the parent is doing because the child is not getting his way.

God actually created the father-child relationship in human families partly to symbolize the greater relationship between God and humans. We look at God’s actions from our very limited and self-serving perspective (we are very finite), and we judge them like an immature child or a rebellious teen judging an older and wiser adult. We are punished for a good reason, and God only does it because he loves us.

God wants what’s best for us. God is the source of all virtue and love, of all that is best and highest. Therefore to separate oneself from that heartbeat of real life is to destroy oneself utterly. God doesn’t want us to do that. He doesn’t want us to damn ourselves. The punishments of hell, you see, are entirely self-imposed. They are separation from God, and they only occur because people reject God. When they reject all virtue (for all virtues are from God and godly), we immerse ourselves in all that is evil and miserable. The decision to reject God is the decision to embrace hell, for hell is nothing more or less than the absence of God.

He wants to save us from that terrible fate that some people select for themselves. In much the same way, a parent will punish a child to keep him from getting spoiled. A teen that repeatedly rejects the parent’s counsel might get on drugs and have premarital sex, end up on the street and impoverished and miserable. These are self-imposed hardships. They wouldn’t have come on the teen if he or had listened to the advice the parent had given him for his own good. The parent’s discipline, which the teen so much hated, was done (in this ideal parent) for the teen’s own good and out of a heart of love.

We read in 1 Peter that Jesus, between his death and resurrection, also preached to the dead who perished in Noah’s flood. This makes plain that those who die as a judgment from God sometimes go to Purgatory. The destruction of their flesh saves some souls, just as the spanking of a child can right the child’s course. Not always, though. Sometimes the ultimate attempt of God through this severe punishment to bring the soul back to him has no effect, and the soul ignores this final appeal and damns itself.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Because that’s what it comes off as so many times. Read God’s command in Deuteronomy 20:10 - 20:20 and then read what the Israelites did in Joshua 10:16 - 10:42. It’s genocide again and again and again.

There were some genocides God commanded his people to do, it is true. There also was the Flood in the time of Noah. The Lord said before these invasions that these peoples were full of all kinds of wickedness. Therefore the punishment is just.

It is human arrogance to suggest that we know better than God. Because we know so little about morality (being both finite and stained with sin), our opinions about it are bound to differ from those of God until God brings them into line with his own perspective.

When we judge things like Noah’s Flood or the invasion of Canaan, we are like three year olds entering a court room, listening to the people talking for three minutes and then deciding that the judge’s verdict was wrong! That is how conceited we are, because God is omniscient, and we know so few of the facts and have no right to judge God.

Honestly, compare us to God (God according to the Christian theology)! God is omniscient, utterly loving, far, far wiser than anyone on Earth. Atheism is all about human wisdom. It says that if we can’t understand God’s decisions all the time, then God’s decisions are wrong. Its assumption is that we have greater understanding of the situation than God, for there is no way we could judge God with any validity!

The assumption is bogus. If you assume men are wiser than God, then obviously you’re not going to end up with Christianity as your religion. Premise that it’s wrong and obviously your conclusion will be it’s wrong. But that’s irrational.

What did all of these tribes do to deserve genocide? The Israelites were in Egypt, and then upon getting away from the wrath of the Pharaoh, they proceeded so slaughter countless tribes who were in their way of settling down in the promised land.

The way I remember it, those tribes often attacked them first. But God also, we must remember, is the ultimate judge, the one with the greatest knowledge and love. He is also the king, and we his rebellious subjects. He has the right to carry out the death penalty. Because he is love, we can trust that he will do it justly. He can see our sins and judge when to punish and when to display mercy. It is foolhardy of mankind (especially since the events we’re talking about occurred thousands of years ago, so we don’t even know that much about the people that were condemned) to say that we have sufficient knowledge to judge God wrong. It is even less intelligent (given we aren’t omniscient) to assume God is wrong until proven innocent. Limited, puny humans just aren’t that wise and knowledgeable.

I am not eager to make God the bad guy. I am trying to understand how all of God’s actions in scripture are compatible with a loving God.

That’s entirely valid! I don’t have time to discuss the ethics of these specific actions at the moment, but I’ll just say that trying to understand the ways of God is wonderful. It’s only when we cross the line and start assuming we understand everything and thus have a right to judge God, or start assuming God’s guilty until proven innocent, when he obviously would know far more than we do. Trying to understand God’s ways is highly laudable. Judging the omniscient from our pathetic human perspective (thousands of years later, knowing little of the people involved, and so not very valid even if we were judging the actions of mere humans) is absurdly unreasonable.

No, we don’t know all the facts. But yet there are many things in the Bible like this that makes people’s stomach churn. When some try to explain how God’s actions were just, others passively nod while secretly wondering how that could be the right. But when I question how these actions could be just, I’m instantly accused of being eager to believe that God is the bad guy.

I’m glad you aren’t eager to see God as the bad guy, and I fully believe you aren’t. My response is only focused on the logic of challenging the wisdom of the omniscient with human wisdom. The logic doesn’t stand up. Not only would we be invalid in judging the actions of humans, when we’re talking about such a time gap, but we’re talking about omniscience.

By definition, a human who is wiser than someone else is going to do things rather differently. Multiply that difference by billions and billions of times, and the differences in actions between us and God become multitudes. Naturally, some of those differences are going to defy our understanding. But is it reasonable for us to judge God based on that? We know too little to make any valid judgment.

We do know, however, that God is a God of love. This is proven by the fact that he died on the cross for our sins. Because we can know this, we can believe the rest.

 

[Michael96]

I too struggle with some parts of the OT. I can’t imagaine any compassionate person who wouldn’t. There are things in there that seem so unjust.

The best advice I had on that was to accept that the Gospels were the fullfillment of God’s love for the world. Hold onto that tightly and struggle to work out how the OT fits with that, rather than holding on tightly to the OT stories and struggling with how the Gospels fit with those.

 

[reen12]

Of course, the Hebrew Scriptures describe a God Who
wills to save, a God Who gives us a green pasture,
a God Who forgives.
“If your sins be as scarlet, I will make them as white as snow…”

“Even if your mother and father should forget you,
I will never forget you.
See? I have written your name on the palm of My hand.”

What I fail to understand is this. In the OT, God forgives sin.
God lifts one from the mire, and sets one in a high place.
He calls His people to a green pasture, to remain still,
and to know that He is God. He led His people out of
slavery and exile.

The concept that their exists a God/Man, is a Christian assertion.
The savior, looked for, by His people, was to be a human being - period.
Human beings did not need ‘saving.’ They were already saved - by the God Who is One.

“Hear, O Israel, the Lord our G-d, the Lord is One.”

St. Paul [Saul - of Tarsus, a rabbinic scholar] confected the notion of ‘original sin,’ because without this ‘sin,’ there was no context for a Savior to save human beings. All of Christianity stands or falls on this “hinge” construct. The Judaic “yetzers” do not equate with 'original sin" - from which one needed ‘saving.’

Both Scriptures give us a hint of Who God is. The Creator of all things, the Master of the universe, Who wills to save and to forgive.

reen12

 

[texrec]

That God kills some people is no more incompatible with his love and forgiveness than is a parent sometimes punishing a child for doing wrong things. It is in the nature of love to discipline a child for doing bad things, for otherwise the child will grow up spoiled. Love wants what’s best for the child.

The eternal one killing a person is compatible with a parent punishing a child? Don’t think so! Once dead, there is no further chance for repentance.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

The eternal one killing a person is compatible with a parent punishing a child? Don’t think so! Once dead, there is no further chance for repentance.

There’s Purgatory. Souls that committed heinous acts can be purified there.

 

[fhansen]

There’s Purgatory. Souls that committed heinous acts can be purified there.

Actually, I believe purgatory is a place of purification for those who are still dealing with venial sins -or attachment to worldly things. Perhaps Annias & Saphira would fall into that category and in any case God wanted them to serve as an example to the early Church because half-hearted discipleship would not suffice for getting His ark of salvation on its’ way. God’s the boss and He knows-and proved to us -that physical death is not the end. Like Job said, “Though He slay me, yet will I hope in Him”. Just a thought.

 

[HiggDo]

I too struggle with some parts of the OT. I can’t imagaine any compassionate person who wouldn’t. There are things in there that seem so unjust.

The best advice I had on that was to accept that the Gospels were the fullfillment of God’s love for the world. Hold onto that tightly and struggle to work out how the OT fits with that, rather than holding on tightly to the OT stories and struggling with how the Gospels fit with those.

Right on…

God has no need for further killing or punishing of his peoples.

The Old Testament is relavent to Christianity because of the numerous fortellings of Jesus and the laws set forth by God, not because God is a punishing and killing God. Just the opposite- God is a loving and merciful God from the time of the human Jesus, forever onward.

He sent Jesus Christ as his new and final covenant, his free gift of eternal salvation for those who will partake of the blessed gift.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Actually, I believe purgatory is a place of purification for those who are still dealing with venial sins -or attachment to worldly things. Perhaps Annias & Saphira would fall into that category and in any case God wanted them to serve as an example to the early Church because half-hearted discipleship would not suffice for getting His ark of salvation on its’ way. God’s the boss and He knows-and proved to us -that physical death is not the end. Like Job said, “Though He slay me, yet will I hope in Him”. Just a thought.

Yeah, but I was thinking of 1 Peter 3:19, where it talks about Jesus preaching to the souls of those that died in the Flood. Also, Paul talks about God punishing people according to the flesh, that they might live according to the Spirit.

Well . . . I guess we could actually both be right. During people’s last moments, their minds usually turn to thinking of God. So people God has punished with death might repent in that moment and therefore go to Purgatory. Like the “good thief” that died beside Jesus.

 

[fhansen]

Yeah, but I was thinking of 1 Peter 3:19, where it talks about Jesus preaching to the souls of those that died in the Flood. Also, Paul talks about God punishing people according to the flesh, that they might live according to the Spirit.

Well . . . I guess we could actually both be right. During people’s last moments, their minds usually turn to thinking of God. So people God has punished with death might repent in that moment and therefore go to Purgatory. Like the “good thief” that died beside Jesus.

Yes, well, I guess I’m asking if Gods’ punishment by physical death necessarily means exclusion from eternal life.

 

[NaturalEnquirer]

Yes, well, I guess I’m asking if Gods’ punishment by physical death necessarily means exclusion from eternal life.

I see no reason to suppose that it does.

 

[fhansen]

I see no reason to suppose that it does.

OK. So when I said that Gods’ “the boss” I mean that in the end He slays all of us anyway-He allowed for the physical death which all of us will pass through and He’ll deal with each of us as we pass through it and maybe He causes some to pass through a little earlier than others if we’re somehow standing in the way of the plan of salvation that He ordained for man. It may sound tough but He is the boss and there are many things about this life that are degrading which we nonetheless have to experience, whether or not we like it or understand it. He allows suffering here-which He brings good out of-and I’m convinced that He’s a God of infinitely boundless and unconditional love-a love we have the option of accepting or rejecting.

 

[texrec]

There’s Purgatory. Souls that committed heinous acts can be purified there.

Yes, Purgatory is certainly a path to purification - for one who died in some state of grace. However, in my mind heinous acts = mortal sin, and purgatory is of no value for that.

 

[texrec]

I guess what I’m saying is that it just seems that people use God as a way to explain things they have no control over. Regardless of the outcome, they believe it’s a sign from God. People get comfort from the thought of an all-powerful deity bending backwards to answer all their requests. There are so many things we don’t have control over and don’t know all the variables, but once we know the variables, we stop relying on God.

Well said! So often I have struggled with this very thought. If God wants us to believe in him, why does he make it so difficult? Why not give us an undeniable sign, publicly or privately? After all, it’s been 2000 years! Or at least, behave consistently?

I don’t know the answer, however, imagine this: suppose you were God, and you created a new life form. You imbue this life form with an inate desire to know you. However, a dilemma appears: if you make yourself known undeniably, then is the relationship between you and this creation one of free will? Seems to me that God’s plan is to ask us to make the leap and love him even though sometimes (usually?) it makes no sense.

Your struggle is real and the many discussions that appear in this thread reveal the depths to which you have considered this problem. May you find peace!

 

[fhansen]

Awake, I continue to believe that a steadfast faith-perseverance-is Gods’ desire. I did receive from Him-years ago-the kind of experience you say you desire for confirmation of His existence. But that was in my mid-thirties and after years of seeking and drawing closer and… perseverance. And I wasn’t even asking for it. But that’s another story anyway.

I like this quote of St. Augustines’:
**Seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. **

Anyway I, too, hope you find the peace and love of God.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Well said! So often I have struggled with this very thought. If God wants us to believe in him, why does he make it so difficult? Why not give us an undeniable sign, publicly or privately? After all, it’s been 2000 years! Or at least, behave consistently?

He said in the scripture, “seek and you will find. Knock and the door will open to you.” He also said that if man, though he is evil, knows how to give good gifts to his children, how much more will God give the Holy Spirit to those that ask him?

Pray that God will reveal himself to you in an undeniable way, and continue to pray. I’ll pray too, if you want. I did this, and after six months of intensive prayer, the Lord revealed himself to me and turned my crumbled faith into powerful conviction. He does give his followers undeniable signs. Not only privately- he’s given some publicly. Like the resurrection from the dead.

There is no way that the Resurrection of Christ could be anything other than a miracle that proves his claims about himself to be true. This is because his disciples claimed to have spoken with Jesus, conversed with him and eaten meals with him for many days after his resurrection. Then, they saw him rise into heaven with their own eyes. That is their claim. We know that their claim is true because not one of the witnesses, and there were eleven of them, backed down from their story. One was exiled for it, and the other ten tortured and killed. The fact that not one gave up his story under torture or threat of death proves that they were absolutely convinced that everything recorded in the Gospels is true.

The Gospels were universally accepted in the Early Church as being the reliable testimony of the disciples, and they were passed on by their successors to the next generations of believers. The best friends and immediate successors of the apostles claimed that these stories of them were true, and were the testimony of the disciples. And the apostles died for their story.

Many people die for their beliefs, but the apostles died for what they knew to be either lie or truth. Therefore their testimony is absolutely reliable, and the only way one can challenge the account of the Gospels is to argue that what is written in it can be explained by natural means. I’ve heard arguments that Jesus was standing on a floating ice block when he was supposedly walking on the water, or arguments that all eleven disciples mass-hallucinated at the same time when Jesus was ascending into heaven. That’s how far-fetched people will get to try to evade this problem.

Jesus said in the scriptures, when the Jews questioned him for proof of his identity, that he would “tear down this temple, and raise it up again in three days.”

The fact that he did this has never been effectively challenged by reason-based arguments. Only bias and emotion stand in the way of its universal acceptance.

God longs for deeper intimacy with each one of us. He also said in the scripture that he would reveal himself to us, if we want him to. In my life, I experienced God’s glorious intervention, and I know what it is to hear his voice and see his glorious power unveiled. He does interact directly with his followers, just as he did in Acts or the Gospels, or the Old Testament. We are blessed to know him in this way .

I don’t know the answer, however, imagine this: suppose you were God, and you created a new life form. You imbue this life form with an inate desire to know you. However, a dilemma appears: if you make yourself known undeniably, then is the relationship between you and this creation one of free will?

It is! The Bible is full of these stories . . . Solomon saw fire come down from heaven when he consecrated the Temple, and he witnessed it consume the sacrifices offered to the Lord. He saw the glory cloud of the Lord descend into the Temple and fill it so that no one could enter. He witnessed things that would convince many of even the most hard-headed skeptics, yet time and seduction caused him to lose faith.

Israel was the same, when God was taking them out of Egypt.

Humans are fickle, and it takes trust for us to believe, even after God has revealed himself in undeniable ways. When we are putting our necks on the line, no matter how powerful God has proven himself to be, we still get the jitters and some people turn back.