TLM on the way ??????

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Caesar said:
Differance: at the Council of Trent a whole new Mass was not created. The position of the altar was not changed, neither the language nor the liturgical chant was taken away, and the Mass basicaly stayed the same (the only differances in the Mass between various Dioceses were minor, and the main differance was the Liturgical Calendar which differed from Diocese to Diocese). After Trent there was no “New Mass”, it was the same Mass, just standardized for the entire Latin Church.

Also, religious orders and some Dioceses were allowed to keep their Rites- note the Ambrosian Rite in Milan.
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Actually the chant was changed and many chants eliminated.

I’ve been looking for it for a long time, so if someone has the reference from whichever period I would really be grateful to know it: where is it mandated that a priest must celebrate the TLM versus apsidem?

Some diocesan uses differed only slightly from the Roman rite. Others differed more, with different readings. Still others had different ordinaries altogether, thouhg almost everywhere the Canon was in use with variations]

Even though the Ambrosian rite remined substantially intact, it too was reformed after Trent following the pattern of the Roman liturgy. Such reforms of diocesan and monastic liturgies were common, patterned after the latest changes in the Roman liturgy, whatever those may have been.
 
AJV said:
I’ve been looking for it for a long time, so if someone has the reference from whichever period I would really be grateful to know it: where is it mandated that a priest must celebrate the TLM versus apsidem?
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Are you referring to mandating a use of liturgical East instead of a true orient-ation? It *would *be interesting to see when that came in to play rather than having the congregation face East with the priest as was the earlier practice.
 
Andreas_Hofer said:
Are you referring to mandating a use of liturgical East instead of a true orient-ation? It *would *be interesting to see when that came in to play rather than having the congregation face East with the priest as was the earlier practice.
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No, I’m asking where it was mandated that the TLM had to be offered by a priest (to use the common misnomer) ‘facing the wall with the back to the people’. Undoubtedly it was by far the most common but I’m asking whether it was ever mandated.
 
ByzCath said:
What? Can you explain this more. It is the local bishop who approves the indult so what is this Ecclesia Dei documentation you speak of? To even request the indult a “community” must request it, a single priest can not do so, at least that is what I get from my reading of the revelant documents.
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For example there is a Diocesean Priest in my Diocese that has the proper Ecclesia Dei documentation to celebrate the TLM, but the Bishop has not allowed him to do so. I am not sure about the details about how the documentation was requested though.
Would be nice but 1) where is the money going to come from to pay for such a thing and 2) you can’t make people go.
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  1. It can be the normal ‘love offering’ kind of course.
  2. The same people who don’t want to go are likely to be the same people who babble the responses in the vernacular without understanding it or meaning it. Even so, one relies on the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to change the hearts of these people.
 
AJV said:
I’ve been looking for it for a long time, so if someone has the reference from whichever period I would really be grateful to know it: where is it mandated that a priest must celebrate the TLM versus apsidem?
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What’s versus apsidem?
 
ByzCath said:
Just wait. In Mexico each parish has a number of chapels where the Eucharist is celebrated on Holy Days of Obligation. The one we visit to help out with over Holy Week and the Easter Vigil has one parish Church, 12 chapels, and the prison. In the community that serves this parish there are 3 priests and 2 brothers. This is why we go help out.
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That’s interesting considering that Mexico has a surplus of priests, Latin Rite priests at least. many of whom end-up in the USA.
 
Dr.Bombay said:
K, have you talked to an altar server lately? I’m not sure they do know English. Just talk to ‘em for a minizzle and you’ll pick up what I’m layin’ down, dawg. Know’m sayin?

And they also don’t know how to pull their pants up and wear a baseball cap properly.
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HEARTY LAUGH so true! so true!..hey you do that well!👍
 
demerzel85 said:
What’s versus apsidem?
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As I said: priest facing the wall of the apse. I used that term instead of ad orientum because even when it was not true East, the priest used to face the apse or ‘liturgical East’. The opposite to versus populum
 
I will beleive it when an OFFICIAL Vatican decree is issued. I attend the indult Mass and LOVE it. I however am worried that certain LIBERALS in the curia will convince the Pope NOT to give the Universal Indult! How sad.
 
fiat1122 said:
I will beleive it when an OFFICIAL Vatican decree is issued. I attend the indult Mass and LOVE it. I however am worried that certain LIBERALS in the curia will convince the Pope NOT to give the Universal Indult! How sad.
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There is a big difference between having the backing of faithful praying the rosary, gaining indulgences, draw upon the intercessions of the Saints, etc and those who havent even heard of these let alone practise 😛
 
I cannot name my source, but a very well respected person in the Catholic Church in America heard it from the Holy Father himself that there will be a motu proprio granting the Universal Indult by the end of November.

Pray for the Holy Father and get the champagne bottles ready!
 
JMJ + OBT​

Well, folks, the TLM rumors have been taken up by the London Times, so now I guess it’s official that the universal indult – or recognitio, or whatever – is on the way. :rolleyes: Just kidding, the LT is not exactly known for its accuracy and intelligence when it comes to reporting on the Catholic Faith. Nonetheless, here is a short quote from the beginning of the article published earlier today:

Pope set to bring back Latin Mass that divided the Church
The Times of London
Oct. 11, 2006
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THE Pope is taking steps to revive the ancient tradition of the Latin Tridentine Mass in Catholic churches worldwide, according to sources in Rome.
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Pope Benedict XVI is understood to have signed a universal indult — or permission — for priests to celebrate again the Mass used throughout the Church for nearly 1,500 years. The indult could be published in the next few weeks, sources told The Times.
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Use of the Tridentine Mass, parts of which date from the time of St Gregory in the 6th century and which takes its name from the 16th-century Council of Trent, was restricted by most bishops after the reforms of the Second Vatican Council (1962-65).
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This led to the introduction of the new Mass in the vernacular to make it more accessible to contemporary audiences. By bringing back Mass in Latin, Pope Benedict is signalling that his sympathies lie with conservatives in the Catholic Church …
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Read more of this article
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I hope it’s true, that would make for a GREAT b-day present. 🙂

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

IC XC NIKA
 
I’m not sure I understand the change being discussed. Hasn’t the option for Tridentine been available already, based on the approval of the bishop? I’m in Cincinnati, and I know of at least one parish here that has a weekly TLM.

Based on the London Times article, it seems the bishop could still nix it in his diocese if he wants to. So what’s changing?
 
steve_green_2 said:
translated to English from archivum ilcannocchiale
web site

The Crisis: The Freeing Up of the Roman Rite is Imminent
Posted by: Admin on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 04:42 PM
The Catholic Church
From archivum.ilcannocchiale.it/ (translated)

The Freeing Up of the Roman Rite is Imminent

As it had been already anticipated months ago by the Archivum Liturgicum, in a few weeks the Holy Father will promulgate the document freeing the Roman Liturgy. Numerous informed sources had confirmed the date of publication of the decree as November. As far as we know, the content of the document would deal with the total freeing up of the Tridentine Rite, according to the Rubrics of 1962–placing it side by side with the Novus Ordo; the new liturgy would be defined as the “ordinary rite” while the traditional rite would be known as the “extraordinary rite”, without any limitation on the celebration on the part of any Catholic priest. It seems that the decree, already signed by the Holy Father at the beginning of September, explicitly notes the hope that the main churches will celebrate at least one Sunday Tridentine Mass. If what is being said in the Roman Curia comes to fruition…this freeing of the Mass will represent one of the more important actions of the pontificate of Benedict XVI including the Papal celebrations of the Mass…
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Does this mean that the members of the SSPX would be able to celebrate it freely? Would the ex communication be lifted? It does not specify. I checked out the SSPX site and it has no mention of this, so Iam not sure if the change would mean that the SSPX would be in communion with Rome or not. Does anyone have any accurate and reliable information that this means that the ex communication of Arch Bishop Lefebvre would be lifted? That the SSPX could freely celebrate the Tridentine Mass? That the anyone could freely go to the SSPX Mass without fear of being ex communicated for doing so? Or does this simply mean that priests who are not in the SSPX who want to celebrate the Tridentine Mass would have the approval of Rome to do so?
 
redactorab said:
I’m not sure I understand the change being discussed. Hasn’t the option for Tridentine been available already, based on the approval of the bishop? I’m in Cincinnati, and I know of at least one parish here that has a weekly TLM.

Based on the London Times article, it seems the bishop could still nix it in his diocese if he wants to. So what’s changing?
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Previously it required written approval from the bishop for a priest to say the Tridentine Mass. The change means that it will require a written prohibition from the bishop to keep a priest from using the Tridentine Mass.
 
YAY!
I grew up with the Latin Mass in the '50’s, and I have always missed it (but not enough to go visit the SSPX folks in nearby St. Mary’s, KS).
 
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