TLM on the way ??????

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11-October-2006 – Catholic World News Feature Story

POPE WILL BROADEN USE OF LATIN MASS
Vatican, Oct. 11 (CWNews.com) - Pope Benedict XVI is preparing to release a motu proprio extending permission for priests to celebrate the traditional Latin Mass, Vatican sources have confirmed.

The new papal document-- for which a publication date has not yet been set-- would give all priests permission to celebrate the Mass of St. Pius V. This permission, a “universal indult,” would replace the existing indult that dates back to 1988, when Ecclesia Dei authorized use of the Tridentine rite until more restricted conditions, requiring the permission of the local bishop.

Pope Benedict has long favored moves to accommodate traditionalist Catholics, and to integrate the Tridentine rite into the regular liturgical life of the Church. The motu proprio that he has prepared-- which, according to informed sources, is now in final form-- addresses other liturgical questions as well as the issue of the traditional Mass.

Vatican sources say that the papal document affirms the principle that there is only one liturgical rite for the Latin Church. But this rite has two forms: the “ordinary” liturgy (the Novus Ordo, celebrated in the vernacular language) and the “extraordinary” (the Tridentine rite, in Latin). These two forms have equal rights, the text indicates, and bishops are strongly encouraged to allow free use of both forms.

Pope Benedict is reportedly waiting for the best moment to release the new document, which is currently circulating among Vatican dicasteries. Speculation in Rome is that the indult will be announced at the same time that the Pope releases his apostolic exhortation concluding the Synod on the Eucharist. That document is expected soon, perhaps in November.

There is significant opposition to the indult among Vatican officials, and the papal text has been the subject of serious debate and criticism. But Pope Benedict has made it clear-- notably in his meeting with the College of Cardinals in March-- that he will move forward with efforts to accommodate traditionalists.

In 1988, with his own motu proprio Ecclesia Dei, Pope John Paul II allowed the celebration of the old Mass in parish settings, provided that the local bishop gave his approval. The Ecclesia Dei commission was created to supervise implementation of that policy. Despite the urging of Pope John Paul for a “broad and generous” use of the indult, many bishops have been reluctant to allow the traditional Mass, or have severely restricted its use.

The papal document is likely to take the form of an apostolic letter, with the added status of a motu proprio-- a document that carries the force of canon law. The document has been reviewed by the Congregation for Divine Worship and by Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos, the president of the Ecclesia Dei commission, as well as the Pope; it is now in at least its third draft.
 
What does this mean practically speaking? Even with a universal indult for the TLM the NO Mass will still be the normative Mass.
Presumably even if a bishop in a diocese was in favour of the TLM it could not be imposed on the faithful if they don’t want it. Is my understanding correct or not?
 
so, as i said, will the pope then lift the excommunication of Arch Bishop Lefebvre? Wil the SSPX be in communion with Rome? Will anyone be allowed freely to go to the SSPX Mass?
 
so, as i said, will the pope then lift the excommunication of Arch Bishop Lefebvre? Wil the SSPX be in communion with Rome? Will anyone be allowed freely to go to the SSPX Mass?
The SSPX would still have to be brought into communion with Rome. They would have to be given some sort of jursidiction as perhaps a prelature or submission to the diocesan bishops. Also, this document may not be enough for the SSPX to decide to come back into union especially if, as the articles, seem to indicate the tridentine will be called “extraordinary” and the diocesan bishop would have the power to prohibit it’s use. Until they are accepted back with Rome the SSPX priests would still be suspended and the bishops excommunicated, so no, a Catholic could not freely attend the SSPX masses.

I don’t know if the Church lifts excommunications on dead people. Do they? Also, since he disobeyed the Pope and has not recanted could he even be reconciled?
 
The SSPX would still have to be brought into communion with Rome. They would have to be given some sort of jursidiction as perhaps a prelature or submission to the diocesan bishops. Also, this document may not be enough for the SSPX to decide to come back into union especially if, as the articles, seem to indicate the tridentine will be called “extraordinary” and the diocesan bishop would have the power to prohibit it’s use. Until they are accepted back with Rome the SSPX priests would still be suspended and the bishops excommunicated, so no, a Catholic could not freely attend the SSPX masses.

I don’t know if the Church lifts excommunications on dead people. Do they? Also, since he disobeyed the Pope and has not recanted could he even be reconciled?
you know, i had high hopes that this new decision would allow the SSPX to be in communion with Rome, and that any Catholic could freely attend their Mass 😦 I guess that is not going to happen 😦 Too bad 😦
 
I’m all for it, but an indult is simply permission, not a Papal mandate. I don’t think many US parishes will offer the TLM until they’re directed to do so, and I also believe such a direction from Rome would be fought tooth & nail by the bishops.

The state of the Liturgy today shows that culture of the priesthood since VCII has been conditioned to resist traditional liturgy and view it as a threat to the progressivism now so prevalent. I think people would be surprised at how few priests are familiar with the TLM. Nor are they eager to see its return. If your parish has a priest who’s over 65, your chances of getting it are better.
 
Presumably even if a bishop in a diocese was in favour of the TLM it could not be imposed on the faithful if they don’t want it. Is my understanding correct or not?
That depends. If a parish priest who normally says the 10:00am Sunday Mass decides that he is going to say the Mass using the 1962 Missal, does that constitute it being ‘imposed’ on the faithful?
 
you know, i had high hopes that this new decision would allow the SSPX to be in communion with Rome, and that any Catholic could freely attend their Mass 😦 I guess that is not going to happen 😦 Too bad 😦
Unfortunetly there is a great deal more involved with their seperation than just the Liturgy, and the longer they are away, the more divergent their beliefs will be.
 
AP now reports:

Pope set to ease Latin Mass restrictions
by Victor L. Simpson - Associated Press - October 11, 2006

VATICAN CITY – Pope Benedict XVI has decided to loosen restrictions on use of the old Latin Mass, making a major concession to ultraconservatives who split with the Vatican to protest liberalizing reforms, a Vatican official said Wednesday.

The pope’s intent is to “help overcome the schism and help bring (the ultraconservatives) back to the Church,” said the official, who asked that his name not be used because the papal document has not yet been released.

It was not immediately clear when the pope will make his decision public, but the Vatican official said it was expected soon. The Times of London, in a report Wednesday, said the pope had already signed the order and it could be published in the next few weeks.

The late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre founded the Swiss-based Society of St. Pius X in 1969 in opposition to the reforms of the 1962-65 Second Vatican Council, particularly allowing Mass to be celebrated in local languages instead of Latin. The Vatican excommunicated Lefebvre in 1988 after he consecrated four bishops without Rome’s consent.

Benedict has indicated he wants relations with the St. Pius X group to be normalized. He met last year with the current head of the society, Bishop Bernard.

The Tridentine Mass, the name of the old Latin Mass, can now only be celebrated with permission of the local bishop. In addition to the use of Latin, the priest faces the altar - away from the worshippers - and there are no lay readers as in the modern Mass.

The issue of the Mass will only be one of the points in the papal document that will reach out to the ultraconservatives, the Vatican official said.

The pope already took a concrete step in that direction when in September he approved an institute for French priests who left the movement. The small group based in Bordeaux, made up of five priests and some seminarians, is allowed to celebrate the old-style Latin Mass in exchange for their recognition of the pope’s authority.
 
AP reports today

Pope set to ease Latin Mass restrictions
by Victor L. Simpson - Associated Press - October 11, 2006

VATICAN CITY – Pope Benedict XVI has decided to loosen restrictions on use of the old Latin Mass, making a major concession to ultraconservatives who split with the Vatican to protest liberalizing reforms, a Vatican official said Wednesday.

The pope’s intent is to “help overcome the schism and help bring (the ultraconservatives) back to the Church,” said the official, who asked that his name not be used because the papal document has not yet been released.

It was not immediately clear when the pope will make his decision public, but the Vatican official said it was expected soon. The Times of London, in a report Wednesday, said the pope had already signed the order and it could be published in the next few weeks.

The late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre founded the Swiss-based Society of St. Pius X in 1969 in opposition to the reforms of the 1962-65 Second Vatican Council, particularly allowing Mass to be celebrated in local languages instead of Latin. The Vatican excommunicated Lefebvre in 1988 after he consecrated four bishops without Rome’s consent.

Benedict has indicated he wants relations with the St. Pius X group to be normalized. He met last year with the current head of the society, Bishop Bernard.

The Tridentine Mass, the name of the old Latin Mass, can now only be celebrated with permission of the local bishop. In addition to the use of Latin, the priest faces the altar - away from the worshippers - and there are no lay readers as in the modern Mass.

The issue of the Mass will only be one of the points in the papal document that will reach out to the ultraconservatives, the Vatican official said.

The pope already took a concrete step in that direction when in September he approved an institute for French priests who left the movement. The small group based in Bordeaux, made up of five priests and some seminarians, is allowed to celebrate the old-style Latin Mass in exchange for their recognition of the pope’s authority.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:47 am Post subject: Re: [AP] Pope set to ease Latin Mass restrictions Reply with quote
 
Sigh! I’ll wait until it comes out to get excited. Remember, this was supposed to happen on November ? of last year. Then it was Corpus Christi. Also, as I recall, it was to be Pope Benedict’s first order of business.

Also, if you’ll notice the goofy title of the article, the Times isn’t exactly the model of accuracy.

Besides, if the article is accurate, I don’t think you’ll see too much more help to the Tridentine.
The new indult would permit any priest to introduce the Tridentine Mass to his church, anywhere in the world, unless his bishop has explicitly forbidden it in writing.
Somehow I don’t see Cardinal Mahony allowing it. It would seem that those who would allow it already do.
 
Sigh! I’ll wait until it comes out to get excited. Remember, this was supposed to happen on November ? of last year. Then it was Corpus Christi. Also, as I recall, it was to be Pope Benedict’s first order of business.

Also, if you’ll notice the goofy title of the article, the Times isn’t exactly the model of accuracy.

Besides, if the article is accurate, I don’t think you’ll see too much more help to the Tridentine.

Quote:
The new indult would permit any priest to introduce the Tridentine Mass to his church, anywhere in the world, unless his bishop has explicitly forbidden it in writing.

Somehow I don’t see Cardinal Mahony allowing it. It would seem that those who would allow it already do.

I agree–there will be opposition to the TLM. What we do not know for sure is how Pope Benedict will implement the indult (if it does come). We will not know–until it happens–if indeed our bishops can restrict it. If they can—the indult may not make much difference.
 
I don’t see this happening any time soon here in the Diocese of Monterey. The bishop won’t allow it, but he is retiring. Maybe the new bishop will allow it. I would love to see the Latin Mass at my church (our pastor has said that he would do it if allowed!).
 
VATICAN CITY – Pope Benedict XVI has decided to loosen restrictions on use of the old Latin Mass, making a major concession to ultraconservatives who split with the Vatican to protest liberalizing reforms, a Vatican official said Wednesday.

The pope’s intent is to “help overcome the schism and help bring (the ultraconservatives) back to the Church,” said the official, who asked that his name not be used because the papal document has not yet been released.
Umm…That is not what caused the schism/excommunication. It was their installation of Bishops without the approval of the Vatican. Also you see it was an unnamed official. How convientient to have a quote that supports this. More revisionist history by the MSM.

As for the TLM, they can have it. I will stick with the current Mass.

PF
 
Would be nice but 1) where is the money going to come from to pay for such a thing and 2) you can’t make people go.
  1. The money to teach sufficient Latin to follow the missal would come from the CCD budget, which is where that was taught prior to Vatican II anyway (and should not have stopped). With a missal, a Vulgate, and a few handouts, you have all the teaching materials you need.
  2. Last time I checked, CCD attendance was compulsary to receive the sacraments. Whether or not they intend to attend a Latin mass, we have an obligation to teach Latin-rite Catholics enough to follow a Latin mass as a standard part of their religious education. There would be a bit of a generation gap, but its not that hard to pick up enough to follow a TLM if you have a missal of some sort.
 
Does this mean that the members of the SSPX would be able to celebrate it freely? Would the ex communication be lifted? It does not specify. I checked out the SSPX site and it has no mention of this, so Iam not sure if the change would mean that the SSPX would be in communion with Rome or not. Does anyone have any accurate and reliable information that this means that the ex communication of Arch Bishop Lefebvre would be lifted? That the SSPX could freely celebrate the Tridentine Mass? That the anyone could freely go to the SSPX Mass without fear of being ex communicated for doing so? Or does this simply mean that priests who are not in the SSPX who want to celebrate the Tridentine Mass would have the approval of Rome to do so?
Like usual, there is a misunderstanding of why the SSPX Bishops were excommunicated. It was not because they were celebrating the TLM, it was because of the installation of those Bishops with out the approval of the Vatican.

PF
 
Umm…That is not what caused the schism/excommunication.

Well, actually, the SSPX has always said that they had a case of necessity because they weren’t allowed the TLM so the fact that there was no “universal indult” was the reason they think they have necessity. A true universal indult would solve this. The problem I forsee, if the original article is correct, is that there would still be bishops forbidding its use. The other problem I forsee is that the SSPX is already told they may not attend indult Masses so, for some of the SSPX devotees, a universal indult won’t make a difference. I’m sure there will be a “schism” of the schism at that point.
As for the TLM, they can have it.
 
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