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Led_Zeppelin75
Guest
That would be my answer too. You won’t feel anything. Just like it was before you were born. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
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4_marks
Guest
An atheist is likely to believe that they will feel nothing. As they no longer exist, they can no longer “feel.” Death is final for the atheist and it doesn’t really matter anyway. Most atheists are content to live in the here and now.
None of us is absolutely certain what will happen to us after death. We place our hope in Christ as Catholics, and in His promises, but no one who is alive really knows for sure what, if anything, lies beyond this present life. The worst that could possibly happen to us is what the atheist believes (described in the first paragraph), and if so, what is really important is how we are living in the here and now. Even if an eternal existence in hell is a possibility for us, it is a far more preferable end than to enter into eternal non-existence.
The best is that we will “see” God as God truly is for all eternity. None of us can even begin to imagine what that experience may be like, but we can be assured that it will be far greater than anything we can ever know while we are alive here on Earth. Ours is a constant hope that the latter is the truth.
None of us is absolutely certain what will happen to us after death. We place our hope in Christ as Catholics, and in His promises, but no one who is alive really knows for sure what, if anything, lies beyond this present life. The worst that could possibly happen to us is what the atheist believes (described in the first paragraph), and if so, what is really important is how we are living in the here and now. Even if an eternal existence in hell is a possibility for us, it is a far more preferable end than to enter into eternal non-existence.
The best is that we will “see” God as God truly is for all eternity. None of us can even begin to imagine what that experience may be like, but we can be assured that it will be far greater than anything we can ever know while we are alive here on Earth. Ours is a constant hope that the latter is the truth.
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Steve_Andersen
Guest
why would it be hard to answer?
it seems that by definition they expect to feel nothing after death…they’ll be dead
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Contarini
Guest
:They [Buddhists] are not atheists, and they are not monothiests either…they are Hindu-like :
Actually, they are significantly different from Hindus in this respect. Hinduism is, in some form or another, thoroughly theistic. That is to say, Hindus posit some kind of eternal divine reality, which is usually to some extent thought of in both personal and impersonal terms. My understanding (correct me if I’m wrong) is that Buddhists have always either rejected or simply shown no interest in the existence of such an eternal reality. For Buddhists–at least according to what I’ve read–there is nothing that lies behind the eternal flux of the universe. Nirvana is a state, not any kind of being or substantial reality. Of course this is very different from Western atheism, but it does appear to be a kind of atheism, in the sense that there is no eternal being of intelligence and will who created/creates/emanates the phenomenal world.
Ahimsa, I would have thought that advaitins, while similar to Buddhists in many respects, differ from them precisely in that they think people do have eternal souls which are of the same “stuff” as Brahman. I thought that this is what Buddhism denies and regards as the basic difference between itself and any form of Hinduism. But I probably have an oversimplified view. Please enlighten me (well, not enlighten enlighten, but inform enlighten!).
Edwin
Actually, they are significantly different from Hindus in this respect. Hinduism is, in some form or another, thoroughly theistic. That is to say, Hindus posit some kind of eternal divine reality, which is usually to some extent thought of in both personal and impersonal terms. My understanding (correct me if I’m wrong) is that Buddhists have always either rejected or simply shown no interest in the existence of such an eternal reality. For Buddhists–at least according to what I’ve read–there is nothing that lies behind the eternal flux of the universe. Nirvana is a state, not any kind of being or substantial reality. Of course this is very different from Western atheism, but it does appear to be a kind of atheism, in the sense that there is no eternal being of intelligence and will who created/creates/emanates the phenomenal world.
Ahimsa, I would have thought that advaitins, while similar to Buddhists in many respects, differ from them precisely in that they think people do have eternal souls which are of the same “stuff” as Brahman. I thought that this is what Buddhism denies and regards as the basic difference between itself and any form of Hinduism. But I probably have an oversimplified view. Please enlighten me (well, not enlighten enlighten, but inform enlighten!).
Edwin
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UnknownCloud
Guest
One can place themselves in dangerous territory once they try to ‘categorize’ hinduism and buddhism. I meant to say, in effect, that buddhism is more like hinduism than any other religion. Buddhism simply finds many aspects of Hinduism to be unnecessary, like the sacred Vedas for instance, which Hindus genrally regard as Sacred Texts (in fact, so sacred only the Upper Caste priests may read of them).
Hindus view Buddhism as a form of yoga, or ‘practice’, ‘way’. However, both religions have a complex history and many, many sects and schools, so its practically impossible to neatly and systematically categorize them.
Hindus view Buddhism as a form of yoga, or ‘practice’, ‘way’. However, both religions have a complex history and many, many sects and schools, so its practically impossible to neatly and systematically categorize them.
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clmowry
Guest
Steve Andersen:
When you ask a question like this one. You force them to confront their belief.
That’s I would guess what makes it hard to answer such a question.
Chuck
I think many “atheists” are not really committed atheists. They are just ticked of at God and don’t like the world He’s created.
When you ask a question like this one. You force them to confront their belief.
That’s I would guess what makes it hard to answer such a question.
Chuck
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RobedWithLight
Guest
I never disagreed with you concerning the application of the term “atheism”. I simply felt that we need to distinguish the term “atheist” as applied supposedly to Buddhists, and the same term as applied to the rationalistic western materialist, to save us the trouble of inadvertently lumping the two in the same bed, which I felt is like mixing apples with oranges. This is why I qualified the use of the term “atheist” when used of eastern systems.Gerry, you’re agreeing with me but making it sound like you are not…Buddhists are not ‘atheists’, they are…buddhists.
Saying things like ‘buddhists are athiest, but not material athiests’ is just complicating something that needs no complication. Buddhists are buddhists and they shouldn’t be coined as ‘atheists’ just because they don’t forthrightly acknowledge the Judeo-Christian idea of God. They are not atheists, and they are not monothiests either…they are Hindu-like which means they don’t fit a neat little category other than what they are…hindu or buddhist.
Gerry
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Cherubino
Guest
A Zen newbie went to his master and said, “Master, help me please. I am still deeply troubled by the thought of death.”
“I see,” said the master. “So tell me, whippersnapper, what do you actually know about death? Strictly from your own personal experience, I mean.”
“Well, obviously nothing from my own personal experience or we wouldn’t be having this conversation. But other people have told me…”
The master interrupted. “From their own personal experience?”
“Of course not,” the novice answered. “You’re being cute.”
They chatted for a few more minutes and then the master asked, “By the way, kiddo, what are you doing for lunch on Friday?”
“I haven’t the slightest idea. Why do you ask?”
“Not the slightest, huh? Are you afraid of lunch on Friday too?”
“I see,” said the master. “So tell me, whippersnapper, what do you actually know about death? Strictly from your own personal experience, I mean.”
“Well, obviously nothing from my own personal experience or we wouldn’t be having this conversation. But other people have told me…”
The master interrupted. “From their own personal experience?”
“Of course not,” the novice answered. “You’re being cute.”
They chatted for a few more minutes and then the master asked, “By the way, kiddo, what are you doing for lunch on Friday?”
“I haven’t the slightest idea. Why do you ask?”
“Not the slightest, huh? Are you afraid of lunch on Friday too?”
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RobedWithLight
Guest
Chuck
In that case, a non-committed atheist is not an atheist at all, but merely a “skeptical” agnostic. A true atheist is philosophically committed to the idea of no-God.
Gerry
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Rai
Guest
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UnknownCloud
Guest
Cherubino:
That was a cute story but, the reason people fear death is not because they don’t know anything about it, nor is it like any other future event that we can’t be certain of - it is because it is certain and final. We have good reason to fear death. Thank God for faith.
That was a cute story but, the reason people fear death is not because they don’t know anything about it, nor is it like any other future event that we can’t be certain of - it is because it is certain and final. We have good reason to fear death. Thank God for faith.
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Cherubino
Guest
UnknownCloud,
The only reason I’ve ever been given to fear death that makes sense to me is that other people want me to do that in order to validate their own apprehensions. In my own personal experience, however, it’s a neurosis just as much as the irrational fear of elevators or spiders, and as such is merely a symptom of a deeper emotional and spiritual malaise that can be existentially examined and dismantled here and now. My present take on the danse macabre we politely call eschatology was perhaps best summed up poetically by Mark Twain:
"The first time the Deity came down to earth, he brought life and death; when he came the second time, he brought hell.
"Life was not a valuable gift, but death was. Life was a fever-dream made up of joys embittered by sorrows, pleasure poisoned by pain; a dream that was a nightmare-confusion of spasmodic and fleeting delights, ecstasies, exultations, happinesses, interspersed with long-drawn miseries, griefs, perils, horrors, disappointments, defeats, humiliations, and despairs – the heaviest curse devisable by divine ingenuity; but death was sweet, death was gentle, death was kind; death healed the bruised spirit and the broken heart, and gave them rest and forgetfulness; death was man’s best friend; when man could endure life no longer, death came and set him free.
"In time, the Deity perceived that death was a mistake; a mistake, in that it was insufficient; insufficient, for the reason that while it was an admirable agent for the inflicting of misery upon the survivor, it allowed the dead person himself to escape from all further persecution in the blessed refuge of the grave. This was not satisfactory. A way must be contrived to pursue the dead beyond the tomb.
“The Deity pondered this matter during four thousand years unsuccessfully, but as soon as he came down to earth and became a Christian his mind cleared and he knew what to do. He invented hell, and proclaimed it.”
–Mark Twain: “Letters from the Earth”
The only reason I’ve ever been given to fear death that makes sense to me is that other people want me to do that in order to validate their own apprehensions. In my own personal experience, however, it’s a neurosis just as much as the irrational fear of elevators or spiders, and as such is merely a symptom of a deeper emotional and spiritual malaise that can be existentially examined and dismantled here and now. My present take on the danse macabre we politely call eschatology was perhaps best summed up poetically by Mark Twain:
"The first time the Deity came down to earth, he brought life and death; when he came the second time, he brought hell.
"Life was not a valuable gift, but death was. Life was a fever-dream made up of joys embittered by sorrows, pleasure poisoned by pain; a dream that was a nightmare-confusion of spasmodic and fleeting delights, ecstasies, exultations, happinesses, interspersed with long-drawn miseries, griefs, perils, horrors, disappointments, defeats, humiliations, and despairs – the heaviest curse devisable by divine ingenuity; but death was sweet, death was gentle, death was kind; death healed the bruised spirit and the broken heart, and gave them rest and forgetfulness; death was man’s best friend; when man could endure life no longer, death came and set him free.
"In time, the Deity perceived that death was a mistake; a mistake, in that it was insufficient; insufficient, for the reason that while it was an admirable agent for the inflicting of misery upon the survivor, it allowed the dead person himself to escape from all further persecution in the blessed refuge of the grave. This was not satisfactory. A way must be contrived to pursue the dead beyond the tomb.
“The Deity pondered this matter during four thousand years unsuccessfully, but as soon as he came down to earth and became a Christian his mind cleared and he knew what to do. He invented hell, and proclaimed it.”
–Mark Twain: “Letters from the Earth”
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Ahimsa
Guest
WORD HISTORY: Hell comes to us directly from Old English *hel. *Because the Roman Church prevailed in England from an early date, the Roman—that is, Mediterranean—belief that hell was hot prevailed there too; in Old English hel is a black and fiery place of eternal torment for the damned. But because the Vikings were converted to Christianity centuries after the Anglo-Saxons, the Old Norse hel, from the same source as Old English hel, retained its earlier pagan senses as both a place and a person. As a place, hel is the abode of oathbreakers, other evil persons, and those unlucky enough not to have died in battle. It contrasts sharply with Valhalla, the hall of slain heroes. Unlike the Mediterranean hell, the Old Norse hel is very cold. Hel is also the name of the goddess or giantess who presides in hel, the half blue-black, half white daughter of Loki and the giantess Angrbotha. The Indo-European root behind these Germanic words is *kel–, “to cover, conceal” (so hell is the “concealed place”); it also gives us hall, hole, hollow, and helmet.
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ahimsaman72
Guest
In my learning of Buddhism, Buddhists are encouraged to not be attached to notions and ideas, especially about birth and death - which are simply notions. They do not believe in transmigration of the soul. They teach “egolessness” or “no-soul”. There is no “self” that is independent of anything else. This exists because that exists.Gerry, you’re agreeing with me but making it sound like you are not…Buddhists are not ‘atheists’, they are…buddhists.
Saying things like ‘buddhists are athiest, but not material athiests’ is just complicating something that needs no complication. Buddhists are buddhists and they shouldn’t be coined as ‘atheists’ just because they don’t forthrightly acknowledge the Judeo-Christian idea of God. They are not atheists, and they are not monothiests either…they are Hindu-like which means they don’t fit a neat little category other than what they are…hindu or buddhist.
Dependent origination is the the belief that your life depends on the life of plants, the sun, the elements, etc. Your material body is made up of material elements found in other living things.
Nirvana is the extinguishing of desires and ignorance. There is no pain, no birth, no death, no demons, no gods as the Hindu were teaching in Buddha’s day.
Peace…
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ahimsaman72
Guest
There’s a lengthy thread in apologetics that I started titled, “hell and everlasting punishment” which talks about hell and its usage. Some may find it helpful. I am no expert, but I have studied “hell” quite a bit. Here is a link to that thread:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=23446
Peace…
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UnknownCloud
Guest
Cherubino:
I absolutely disagree. Judgment by death, seppuku (ritual suicide), myths of the afterlife, pain ritual, etc…all these things man has done throughout many times and places. Man is not satisfied with life…but death is even less satisfying. The drama of ancient history is just about built on the notion of man meeting his ultimate fate with the heroes being those who, because they saw something greater, would even DIE for this great thing. What merit does courage have if there is no fear of death? Even atheists fear death…that is why they don’t accept an afterlife, because they ‘embrace’ the fact that they will just die…thus, fear is overcome by clinging to what is ‘real’. I have never talked to an atheists that didn’t convict those that believe in an afterlife to be weak minded, afraid. That is why I often call atheism 'mental martyrdome (I will NOT believe in an afterlife, I will be STRONG and ACCEPT its permanence, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr). Thus, a form of coping with fear.
Nirvana is also another way to cope with the fear of death and suffering.
Just be honest and admit it - that is why people seek truth - to conquer fear!
I absolutely disagree. Judgment by death, seppuku (ritual suicide), myths of the afterlife, pain ritual, etc…all these things man has done throughout many times and places. Man is not satisfied with life…but death is even less satisfying. The drama of ancient history is just about built on the notion of man meeting his ultimate fate with the heroes being those who, because they saw something greater, would even DIE for this great thing. What merit does courage have if there is no fear of death? Even atheists fear death…that is why they don’t accept an afterlife, because they ‘embrace’ the fact that they will just die…thus, fear is overcome by clinging to what is ‘real’. I have never talked to an atheists that didn’t convict those that believe in an afterlife to be weak minded, afraid. That is why I often call atheism 'mental martyrdome (I will NOT believe in an afterlife, I will be STRONG and ACCEPT its permanence, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr). Thus, a form of coping with fear.
And to that I say…good luck. But is that statement true? No one knows for sure…that is why Buddhism remains appealing I guess.
Nirvana is also another way to cope with the fear of death and suffering.
Just be honest and admit it - that is why people seek truth - to conquer fear!
C
Cherubino
Guest
UnknownCloud,
I can only speak from experience, and the experiences that struck me sober and removed the fear of death were such that I really can’t begin to express them in Christian terms. In the Fall of 1988 I was making six dollars an hour as a greenskeeper at a golf course, and winter was coming. I’d been evicted from four places to live in the previous two years. I wanted to stop drinking whenever I was dry-heaving, but twenty minutes later I was ready to start up again. By mid October I was living on unemployment and drinking around the clock. I couldn’t stop and I wanted to die.
But at the same time I was obsessed with the idea that if I died in that state of mind, I would only have to come right back and clean up the mess in another life. In other words, death wouldn’t be the end of the show at all, but merely a postponement of unfinished business. Prior to that, the whole notion of reincarnation was simply incomprehensible to me in any factual or doctrinal sense, and I can no longer re-evoke the terror that it held for me then. But in the face of imminent death, it was as real as jug of Scotch and I was terrified to a degree I’ve never known before or since, and that’s what finally drove me to seek help.
Four and a half years later and sober, I was in an ICU with what turned out to be severe congestive heart failure, complete with the nurse asking me if I wanted a clergyman. I thanked her, said no and fell peacefully to sleep in a state of mind I can only describe as total trust and acceptance of whatever might happen next. They had even pulled my bed up near the open door of my room so they could watch me during the night from the nurses’ station. It was an incredibly liberating moment, for if I didn’t need a theological system or any concretized salvation scenario then, when else might I possibly need one? The next morning, with yet no official diagnosis or improvement in the prognosis from the docs, another nurse came in the room with a cheery “And how are we this morning, Mr. C?”
Without a thought, I replied, “Well frankly, my dear, ‘we’ have had better days. But compared with my last drunk, this is a walk in the park.” It really was, and everything since has been icing on the cake.
I can only speak from experience, and the experiences that struck me sober and removed the fear of death were such that I really can’t begin to express them in Christian terms. In the Fall of 1988 I was making six dollars an hour as a greenskeeper at a golf course, and winter was coming. I’d been evicted from four places to live in the previous two years. I wanted to stop drinking whenever I was dry-heaving, but twenty minutes later I was ready to start up again. By mid October I was living on unemployment and drinking around the clock. I couldn’t stop and I wanted to die.
But at the same time I was obsessed with the idea that if I died in that state of mind, I would only have to come right back and clean up the mess in another life. In other words, death wouldn’t be the end of the show at all, but merely a postponement of unfinished business. Prior to that, the whole notion of reincarnation was simply incomprehensible to me in any factual or doctrinal sense, and I can no longer re-evoke the terror that it held for me then. But in the face of imminent death, it was as real as jug of Scotch and I was terrified to a degree I’ve never known before or since, and that’s what finally drove me to seek help.
Four and a half years later and sober, I was in an ICU with what turned out to be severe congestive heart failure, complete with the nurse asking me if I wanted a clergyman. I thanked her, said no and fell peacefully to sleep in a state of mind I can only describe as total trust and acceptance of whatever might happen next. They had even pulled my bed up near the open door of my room so they could watch me during the night from the nurses’ station. It was an incredibly liberating moment, for if I didn’t need a theological system or any concretized salvation scenario then, when else might I possibly need one? The next morning, with yet no official diagnosis or improvement in the prognosis from the docs, another nurse came in the room with a cheery “And how are we this morning, Mr. C?”
Without a thought, I replied, “Well frankly, my dear, ‘we’ have had better days. But compared with my last drunk, this is a walk in the park.” It really was, and everything since has been icing on the cake.
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ahimsaman72
Guest
I assume you meant me, ahimsaman, instead of cherubino.Cherubino:
I absolutely disagree. Judgment by death, seppuku (ritual suicide), myths of the afterlife, pain ritual, etc…all these things man has done throughout many times and places. Man is not satisfied with life…but death is even less satisfying. The drama of ancient history is just about built on the notion of man meeting his ultimate fate with the heroes being those who, because they saw something greater, would even DIE for this great thing. What merit does courage have if there is no fear of death? Even atheists fear death…that is why they don’t accept an afterlife, because they ‘embrace’ the fact that they will just die…thus, fear is overcome by clinging to what is ‘real’. I have never talked to an atheists that didn’t convict those that believe in an afterlife to be weak minded, afraid. That is why I often call atheism 'mental martyrdome (I will NOT believe in an afterlife, I will be STRONG and ACCEPT its permanence, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr). Thus, a form of coping with fear.
And to that I say…good luck. But is that statement true? No one knows for sure…that is why Buddhism remains appealing I guess.
Nirvana is also another way to cope with the fear of death and suffering.
Just be honest and admit it - that is why people seek truth - to conquer fear!
Anyway, man has always tried to understand his world and his purpose in life. Buddhism is a path to liberate one from suffering. It doesn’t seek to solve the mysteries of life and death. Shakyamuni Buddha did not speculate on the existence of gods. He thought to dwell on such things was a waste of time and energy. On the outside Buddhism looks like it is a coping mechanism, but that is not true. The same can be said of Christianity - that God is a crutch for the weak minded. But, of course, this is not true either.
Peace…
P
Paul_W
Guest
What will atheists feel after death?
An intense burning sensation?
An intense burning sensation?
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Led_Zeppelin75
Guest
Paul W:
I love you too. The question was adressed to atheists, not assholes like yourself.What will atheists feel after death?
An intense burning sensation?
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