To Be Born Again

[Church_Militant]

I can understand why you reacted the way you did. Satan, as you mistakenly believe, is not bound up. He is free and doing everything he can to keep people in the dark. God’s Word says he is “the god of this world

” (2 Cor. 4:4). Yes – Satan, not God, is the ruler of this world, thus says the God of the Bible. And that God cannot lie (Tit. 1:2). When He tells you to “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour,” you better believe it. When He tells you “Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light” (2 Cor. 11:4), you better make sure you have not been deceived by false ministers claiming to be God’s ministers and by pious-looking people claiming to be your friends.Gee…that is precisely what I did and that is precisely why I am Catholic.

I reject those errant new winds of doctrines of men that teach unscriptural things and preach a different and deficient gospel that is condemned in Galatians 1:8. I examine this more in depth in my blog article. Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?

Please, please… we all understand simple English. I’m sure you do, too.

This has nothing at all to do with this thread topic…

I hope you know the difference between these two statements:

1. There are things in the Scriptures which are hard to understand.
2. Everything in the Scriptures is hard to understand.

Yeah, as a matter of fact I do.

Here’s a good example relevant to this topic. Acts 22:12-16
12 And one Ananias, a man according to the law, having testimony of all the Jews who dwelt there, 13 Coming to me, and standing by me, said to me: Brother Saul, look up. And I the same hour looked upon him. 14 But he said: The God of our fathers hath preordained thee that thou shouldst know his will, and see the Just One, and shouldst hear the voice from his mouth. 15 For thou shalt be his witness to all men, of those things which thou hast seen and heard. 16 And now why tarriest thou? Rise up, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, invoking his name.

Verse 16 is a prize example of the different gospel being preached by so many n-Cs today. If St. Paul was told and believed that baptism washes away sins, then those modern men who reject or deny that are grossly in error and really are preaching a different gospel, and that is not good.

 

[Mailman]

   Congratulations on your ability to read the words in English on the page.  Now for the tricky part… knowing what they mean.  The NT Scriptures were written about 1900 years ago about events that occurred while Christ was on earth and about His Church after He ascended to His Throne in Heaven.

The discussion centered on the Book of Revelation. The Book of Revelation is Christ’s revelation “which God gave unto Him [Christ]” which He gave to the apostle John to be put into writing for only one purpose: “To show unto his servants things that must surely come to pass.” If you disagree with that statement, then we can talk.

The pillar and foundation of the truth (as described in Scriptures) teaches that the term “1,000 years” simply means “a long time.” It was never meant to be written literally. The Church teaching this is the same Church to which the inspired authors who wrote these Scriptures belonged on Earth, and still belong to in Heaven.

First, let me comment on this “pillar and foundation of the truth” verse which you keep repeating but may not have understood correctly. The Scripture says that, “the church of the living God [is] the pillar and ground of the truth” (1 Tim. 3:15). Is that true? Of course! But have you asked yourself WHY God’s Church is the pillar and ground of the truth? If you go to another Scripture, it will tell you WHY.

“Now therefore you [meaning, the Church of God] are… built upon the foundation of the apostles and the prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone” (Eph. 2:19-20).

Can you now see WHY the Church of God is the pillar and ground of the truth? Because it is built upon the foundation of the apostles and the prophets – in other words, it is built upon the whole Bible! The whole Bible – both Old and New Testaments – is the foundation of God’s Church! And that is the only reason why God’s Church possesses the truth – because it teaches from the Bible, the Word of God. If you take away the Bible from the Church – if the Church disregards the Bible and does its own thing – the Church would lose the truth. “Thy word [God’s Word] is truth,” thus saith the Lord. God’s Church is built upon that foundation. In fact, that foundation is Jesus Himself, because the Bible is His Word. That is why He is its Head, and not some human “pope.” Christ is not dead or incapacitated that He needs a prime minister. He is actively working, even now, with His True Church to bring into fruition God’s great plan of salvation.

Now, about the term “1,000 years,” the inspired Greek is “chilioi etos” – literally, “a thousand years.” If God had meant “a long time” He would not have used such a very specific term. But God used “chilioi etos” not once, not twice, not three times, but FIVE (5) different times in His Revelation. NOT ONCE did He use “a long time” in His Revelation, so why should we even entertain such interpretation to His Word?

Your ignorance of even what I wrote stems from your ignorance of understanding the meanings of Scriptures. I hope you would agree that one can easily recognize the words on the page, but recognizing (discovering and keeping) the meaning is what is important. There was no contradiction at all in what I said, only a contradiction in your mind, and this is because of your self imposed limitation of interpreting what is written. I’ll simplify for you… There will be no literal 1,000 year reign on earth as you intend it to mean (1,000 x 365 days). The phrase “1,000 years” means “a long time.” The “long time” is already in effect, and has already gone over your literal 1,000 year misunderstanding. If you can’t even understand me, what makes you think that you can understand God’s word?

Is that all you can say to support your claim that God’s Revelation of a 1,000-year reign of Christ is not true? There are those who believe in the words of Jesus when He declared: “Thy word is truth” (John 17:17). And that Word reveals a thousand-year reign of Christ on earth. That Word also cautions against privately interpreting the Scriptures: “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation” (2 Pet. 1:20). Since you are clearly making an interpretation of the term “1,000 years” you should at least give us an explanation as to why it should be interpreted the way you see it and why it should even be interpreted in the first place. Now, can you do that without going against the injunction in 2 Peter?

If the Bible was written “for our learning” (Rom. 15:4), there is this one thing we can learn from it, this one from the apostle Paul in how to teach the truth: “For he mightily convinced the Jews, publicly, showing by the Scriptures that Jesus was Christ” (Acts 18:28). We can see that Paul did not go around telling people Jesus was the Christ and they better believe it because God showed him a vision, or because he belonged to the true Church, or any such boastful claims. Instead, Paul taught about Jesus using the Scriptures, pointing to specific writings in Scripture to prove Jesus was the Christ.

Now, you can do the same and prove to me using the Scriptures that the term “1,000 years” means “a long time.” Can you do it?

That is how not to privately interpret the Scriptures. YOU LET THE SCRIPTURES INTERPRET THE SCRIPTURES.

 

[Mailman]

Yes, the reign of a “long time” or period of the New Testament (not some future period of 1,000 x 365 days as those ignorant of Scriptures will claim) is due to Christ’s ascension to Heaven where He is seated on His Throne. Do you deny that Christ reigns from His Throne in Heaven? Before ascending, Jesus established a Prime Minster’s office here on earth to guard the “pearl of great price” while the King is no longer walking the Earth, and is reigning on His Throne in Heaven. Kepha (Petros in Greek, Peter in English) was this first Prime Minister, and this same office established by Christ and protected by the Holy Spirit is currently occupied by Benedict XVI. (Was Simon or anyone named “Kepha” before Christ renamed Simon to Kepha as rock of the Church recorded in Matthew 16:18?)

There is a big difference between your Christ mine. The Christ you worship no longer walks the earth and needs a prime minister to head His Church. The Christ I worship is the “chief corner stone” – the Living Head – of His Church on earth. He cannot be absent from His Church because He is the very foundation of the Church He built:

“For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ” (1 Cor. 3:11).

The Christ I worship never left His Church to be led by some human prime minister. He is the Christ who promised His Church: “I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee” (Heb. 13:5). And He never did. He is shown in Revelation 1:13, 18 to be the Living Head – yes, He is still around – spiritually in the midst of His Church. He has been, and always will be, the Living Head and High Priest of the true Church.

So, Christ started His “long time” reign when He ascended to heaven. Did this reign start during His first ascension [soon after His resurrection] or did it start during His final ascension after being with His disciples for 40 days?

Congratulations once again on reading the words on the pages, as I wish more did. The next step is to understand them, and this requires more work from you. Satan is bound. The problem is once again that you attribute your own personal meaning to that phrase, rather than what was meant by the Holy Spirit. The same Holy Spirit who inspired this, also guides God’s Church in teaching this and all truth.

Christ has defeated Satan. Satan has no power over us, because of Christ. By bound, it means the power of Satan has been very much limited by the passion of Christ: for a thousand years; that is, for the whole time of the New Testament. It is those who reject Christ and accept Satan who have the problem. We have our free will to accept Christ and reject Satan, as we’re called to do when we enter the Church at Baptism. People who reject Christ to one degree or another and allow evil in their lives will not avail themselves of the power of Christ.

You are interpreting being “bound” to mean not entirely bound, like semi-bound – a little bound and a little loose – although more on the “bound” side, as you claim Satan’s power is now “very much limited.” But can you justify this strange private interpretation of yours? Remember 2 Peter.

These misunderstandings you foist as “teachings” were born of typically American Protestantism. In truth, God didn’t teach these. In authentic Christianity, they don’t exist.

“These misunderstandings” are taken straight from the Book you claim to be authored by Catholics. Let me repeat what I said and cite the relevant Scripture.

I said:
“Rev. 20:5 speaks of a ‘first resurrection’ that will happen immediately preceding the 1,000-year reign.”

Rev. 20:5
“But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.”

Then I said:
“It says those who will be part of that resurrection [the first resurrection] will rule with Christ.”

Rev. 20:6
”Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

Now, tell me, where is the misunderstanding? Which part of my statements did God not teach? And please refer to the Scripture cited so there will be no empty talk.

During the “long time” reign of the New Testament (the spiritual meaning of “thousand year” reign), the souls of the martyrs and saints live and reign with Christ in heaven in the first resurrection, this is that of the soul to the life of glory. The second resurrection will be that of the body, at the day of the general judgment. The first resurrection, of the soul has happened for some, and continues to occur. There will be a resurrection of the body as one of the last things, and final judgment. It has not happened yet, obviously. The “long time” reign is still going. If you listen to what Jesus taught, didn’t he say that no one knows the time this will happen except the Father? Don’t you believe Him?

Where is the proof to your story? Again, the Bible was written “for our learning.” There we learn that whenever we hear of “strange” stories being taught as truth, we consult the Bible to find out if indeed they are so. So, let me ask you now to show me the Scriptures that will support your story, because I have, like the noble Bereans, “searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so” (Acts 17:11), but have not found any truth to any of your stories.

 

[Mailman]

The person seeking the truth would ask if the whole earth already in communion with His Kingdom?

The Catholic Church is the rebuilt Davidic Kingdom, with Christ as King, and there is a Prime Minister’s office established and protected by Christ which is called head Bishop, or commonly Pope. Are all people in communion with His Kingdom on Earth? Has the entire earth converted, and I missed it in the news? Are you even a formal member of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church built by Christ?

If the Catholic Church is, as you claim, the Kingdom of God on earth, then the word “Kingdom” in the Lord’s Prayer may be replaced with the words “Catholic Church” without changing the thought. So, when you pray the Lord’s Prayer, you can say,

“Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy Catholic Church come….”

Or, in modern English, and to be better understood:

“Our Father in heaven, may your name be hallowed, may your Catholic Church be established on earth….”

Now, will you pray the Lord’s Prayer that way? If not, tell me why not?

You also implied that when you pray for God’s Kingdom to come – “thy Kingdom come” – you’re not really asking for God’s Kingdom to come, you’re asking instead for the whole earth to be in communion with God’s Kingdom. Now, if that is so, then why don’t you change the words in the original prayer to get that message across? Can’t you see that asking for the Kingdom to come is not the same as asking for the whole earth to be in communion with the Kingdom? There is a world of difference there and the most glaring is that the former implies the Kingdom is not yet in existence while the latter presupposes the Kingdom already exists.

 

[Church_Militant]

If the Catholic Church is, as you claim, the Kingdom of God on earth, then the word “Kingdom” in the Lord’s Prayer may be replaced with the words “Catholic Church” without changing the thought. So, when you pray the Lord’s Prayer, you can say,

“Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy Catholic Church come

….”

Or, in modern English, and to be better understood:

“Our Father in heaven, may your name be hallowed, may your Catholic Church be established on earth….”

Now, will you pray the Lord’s Prayer that way? If not, tell me why not?Because that’s a specious and inaccurate biased interpretation of what the man said in his post.

You also implied that when you pray for God’s Kingdom to come – “thy Kingdom come” – you’re not really asking for God’s Kingdom to come, you’re asking instead for the whole earth to be in communion with God’s Kingdom. Now, if that is so, then why don’t you change the words in the original prayer to get that message across?

This is further off topic. I suggest you abandon this line if discussion and rhetoric before you make the mod close the thread.

Moreover, here you apparently intentionally misrepresent what was said to you.

Can’t you see that asking for the Kingdom to come is not the same as asking for the whole earth to be in communion with the Kingdom? There is a world of difference there and the most glaring is that the former implies the Kingdom is not yet in existence while the latter presupposes the Kingdom already exists.

The fact is that there is a both/and situation here as shown in scripture from the New Testament, not an either/or as you seem to want to portray it.

Again…most all of this is not relevant to the topic and you need to get back to it or the thread will get closed on us.

 

[onenow1]

Quote=onenow1 Maybe this will help:shrug:The feast of the Baptism of the Lord is a celebration of God’s great humility. In order to rescue us sinners, God the Son bent low and stood with us in the muck and mud of our dysfunction. This was so that he could draw us up to his glory.

Jesus accepts humiliation! God himself stoops low and stands side by side with sinners.

This act corresponds to the end of his life I think. God come to us ! John the last prophet balks John doesn’t get it! Jesus says let it be done to fulfill all righteousness TO RESTORE ORDER NOT THROUGH OUR EFFORTS, BUT THROUGH GOD’S. THIS INDEED IS BEING BORN AGAIN . Baptism ]

I think there is a parallel here at the Last Supper St.Peter balks just like John the Baptist when Jesus washes the feet of the disciples.

John 13.
3 Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he had come from God and was going to God,

4 rose from supper, laid aside his garments, and girded himself with a towel.

5 Then he poured water into a basin, and began to wash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe them with the towel with which he was girded.

6 He came to Simon Peter; and Peter said to him, “Lord, do you wash my feet?”

7 Jesus answered him, “What I am doing you do not know now, but afterward you will understand.”

8 Peter said to him, “You shall never wash my feet.” Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part in me.”

Peace,and God Bless onenow1 Snack time

 

[Mailman]

Again…most all of this is not relevant to the topic and you need to get back to it or the thread will get closed on us.

Jesus said, “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Notice carefully, please – being “born again” has a vital connection with the Kingdom of God.

The thread asks: “How does a person be born from above?” My answer: When the person attains salvation at the time of the resurrection at the second coming of Christ when He shall have established the Kingdom.

If there is anything more relevant to how a man gets to be born again, it is in the timing of the establishment of the Kingdom of God because to be born again is to be in the Kingdom.

In the Lord’s Prayer, when we appeal to the Father for His Kingdom to come, we are also appealing to Him that we may be “born again” because only when the Kingdom shall have been established, shall we attain that state of being "born from above.”

 

[Mailman]

Gee…that is precisely what I did and that is precisely why I am Catholic.

I reject those errant new winds of doctrines of men that teach unscriptural things and preach a different and deficient gospel that is condemned in Galatians 1:8. I examine this more in depth in my blog article. Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?

I started a thread entitled “What Was Christ’s Gospel?” under the Sacred Scripture forum. You can revisit it if you want to talk about the Gospel. Just pick from any of my posts there and post your comment on that thread. For now, this is all I can say:

There is only one true Gospel (Gal. 1:8-9). This is the Gospel that Christ preached during His 3-1/2-year ministry on earth, which He first proclaimed in Galilee (Mark 1:15); the same Gospel that all of Christ’s apostles preached (Acts 8:12; 20:25; 28:23, 30-31). But the world has lost sight of that Gospel. Satan has successfully blinded the minds of but a very few in this world by cunningly substituting Christ’s Gospel – the Gospel OF Christ – with some gospel ABOUT Christ.

The true Gospel – the Gospel of Christ – is the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. This is the Good News [Gospel means good news] of a coming Kingdom of God that will rule the nations of this earth “with a rod of iron.” This is Christ’s wonderful message that has now been supplanted with a mishmash of differing “gospels” that talk just about everything but His real Gospel message.

 

[BRB1]

That is how one gets to be “born again.” But that will not happen until after Christ returns, when He shall have established the Kingdom of God. There’s the vital connection. The Kingdom will first have to be there before anyone gets to be born again. Since the Kingdom has not yet come, no one as yet has been born again.

Where did you get this interpretation ? Told to you … or your own ideas ?

Either way … its not what Christ taught … to Niccodemus, or the Thief on Cross.

 

[onenow1]

Jesus said, “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Quote= onenow1> Hi, MM. This is what the verse above really says MM. John 3: 5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of WATER] and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

John 1:31–34: Jesus was baptized. If you compare the parallel passage in Matthew’s Gospel (3:16), you find that when Jesus was baptized, “the heavens were opened” and the Spirit descended upon him. Obviously, this was not because Jesus needed to be baptized. In fact, John the Baptist noted that he needed to be baptized by Jesus (see Matt. 3:14). Jesus was baptized in order “fulfill all righteousness” and “to give knowledge of salvation to his people in the forgiveness of their sins” (cf. Matt. 3:15; Luke 1:77). In other words, Jesus demonstrably showed us the way the heavens would be opened to us so that the Holy Spirit would descend upon us—through baptism. Taken From: Catholic Answers Library.

Peace, and God Bless, onenow1

 

[Mailman]

Where did you get this interpretation ? Told to you … or your own ideas ?

From God’s true Church, through His ordained ministers.

Either way … its not what Christ taught … to Niccodemus, or the Thief on Cross.

What Christ taught is found in His Word, the Holy Bible. I would appreciate it if you could tell me how you understand Christ’s teaching to Nicodemus, by also citing and explaining the relevant Scriptures like I did. Or if not, you could go over my explanation and tell me which ones you are not in agreement with and why.

The words of Jesus to the repentant thief do not prove that the thief has already entered the Kingdom of God. Let’s examine what Jesus said.

“Amen I say to thee: This day thou shalt be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43, DRB)

“Truly I say to you, Today you shall be with Me in Paradise” (MKJV)

If you say the text above proves that the thief has entered the Kingdom, you will have a problem. Notice that when Mary Magdalene saw the risen Christ on Sunday morning, “Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father…” (John 20:17). Jesus had not yet been to heaven [or paradise, according to mainstream Christianity] three days after His death, so the thief could not have gone there as well.

Now, let’s see if Luke 23:43 supports the teaching that no one has entered the Kingdom of God. First, we need to properly translate Luke 23:43. Punctuation was not used in the inspired Greek which Luke wrote. It was added into the Greek and English centuries later. Properly punctuated, Luke 23:43 would read:

“Amen I say to thee this day: Thou shalt be with me in paradise” (DRB), or

“Truly I say to you today, You shall be with Me in Paradise” (MKJV).

Here, you will see that Jesus did not promise the thief He will be in paradise with him that day. By using the word “today,” Jesus was stressing the time of His promise – not the time He would be in Paradise. The thief has not entered paradise – yet. He is still dead and buried. But the time will come when he shall be born again and shall enter the Paradise of God promised to come to this earth. As Jesus explained to Nicodemus, salvation – being born again to be in the Kingdom – is for a future time.

 

[Mailman]

Hi, MM. This is what the verse above really says MM. John 3: 5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of WATER] and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

John 1:31–34: Jesus was baptized. If you compare the parallel passage in Matthew’s Gospel (3:16), you find that when Jesus was baptized, “the heavens were opened” and the Spirit descended upon him. Obviously, this was not because Jesus needed to be baptized. In fact, John the Baptist noted that he needed to be baptized by Jesus (see Matt. 3:14). Jesus was baptized in order “fulfill all righteousness” and “to give knowledge of salvation to his people in the forgiveness of their sins” (cf. Matt. 3:15; Luke 1:77). In other words, Jesus demonstrably showed us the way the heavens would be opened to us so that the Holy Spirit would descend upon us—through baptism. Taken From: Catholic Answers Library.

Peace, and God Bless, onenow1

Thanks, onenow1. I do not disagree with you entirely. In John 3:5, Jesus emphasized the need for water baptism and having God’s Holy Spirit residing in us, for entrance to the Kingdom: Water baptism, because we have to bury our old sinful self and start a new life in Christ; and the presence of the Holy Spirit, because it is the Holy Spirit dwelling in us that shall impart eternal life at the time of our resurrection. Without the two, Jesus said, we cannot enter the Kingdom, in other words, we cannot be saved – salvation being the state of having eternal life (being born again) and entering God’s Kingdom.

When Jesus said, “That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit,” He was clearly pointing out to Nicodemus the difference between our first birth, which is of the flesh, to that of the second birth, which is of the Spirit. Understanding the first birth was not a problem to Nicodemus, so Jesus went on to explain what being born of the Spirit is like. He compared one born of the Spirit to that of the wind – something which cannot be seen by the human eye. Jesus was trying to tell Nicodemus that a person will undergo a CHANGE when born again – a change from one composed of material, flesh and blood, to one composed purely of spirit – a spirit being.

Notice what the Apostle Paul taught: “Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God…” (1 Cor. 15:50). The Kingdom of God is something a human may inherit, but not when he is still flesh and blood.

Before that, Paul had said: “The first man is of the earth, earthy [talking about Adam, a human being]: the second man is the Lord from heaven [a divine Spirit Being]” (1 Cor. 15:47). This is what Jesus was trying to tell Nicodemus. He was of the earth, earthy – a human being. He was flesh and blood, not spirit. He was born of the flesh, so that’s what he was – flesh – and so are we all. But when one is born of Spirit, he will be spirit.

Paul continued: “As is the earth, such are they also that are earthy” (v.48). This is precisely what Jesus was explaining to Nicodemus. He was born of the flesh – he was flesh. Continue: “…and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.” Aren’t heavenly beings spirit beings?

Next verse: “And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall [notice, in the future] also bear the image of the heavenly” (v. 49). Or, as we are now flesh, we shall be spirit, at a future time. That is when we shall be “born again.”

As mentioned before, there is a CHANGE involved in the second birth. Paul also spoke about this: “Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep [be dead], but we shall all be CHANGED, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump [not before]: for the trumpet shall sound and the dead shall be raised incorruptible [only at the resurrection], and we [the then living] shall be CHANGED” (v. 51-52).

How shall we be changed? “For this corruptible” – that is, flesh, as we now are – “must put on incorruption” – become spirit, not subject to corruption – “and this mortal must put on immortality” (v. 53) – be changed from material flesh to immortal spirit!

Notice the TIME when this change will occur – “at the last trump” – at the resurrection. But when will the trumpet sound to usher in the resurrection? “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first” (1 Thess. 4:16). AT THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST, and not before!

Since the change – the second birth – will happen only at Christ’s second coming, we can say with certainty that one has yet been born again.

God bless.

 

[po18guy]

This clearly tells us that salvation is the state of being born again and having eternal life – being changed from corruptible human flesh to incorruptible, immortal spirit (1 Pet. 1:23). That is how one gets to be “born again.” But that will not happen until after Christ returns, when He shall have established the Kingdom of God. There’s the vital connection. The Kingdom will first have to be there before anyone gets to be born again. Since the Kingdom has not yet come, no one as yet has been born again.

So, which denomination has this interpretation of scripture? Just wondering, since I have not heard of this one before. Please specifically identify which of the denominations you belong to, so that we can understand where you are coming from. Thank you.

 

[onenow1]

.Notice what the Apostle Paul taught: “Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God…” (1 Cor. 15:50). The Kingdom of God is something a human may inherit, but not when he is still flesh and blood.

Quote= onenow1. My friend here’s what Jesus said; Luke 17: 20 being asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God was coming He answered them, " The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed, nor will they say ’ Lo here it is! or there! For behold the Kingdom of God is in the midst of you."

Jesus came to restore creation to His original intent, before man corrupted it with original sin, and presonal sin that arose as a consequence. MM. You seem to construt a view not consistent with God’s original plan, to restore all things.

Pentecost : 3000 were baptised by the Apostles in the Spirit and the Flesh.

The bottom line Jesus came in the fleshand rose in the flesh so he must think it pretty important for us !

Peace, onenow1

 

[AwGusTeen]

snip…
When Jesus said, “That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit,” He was clearly pointing out to Nicodemus the difference between our first birth, which is of the flesh, to that of the second birth, which is of the Spirit. Understanding the first birth was not a problem to Nicodemus, so Jesus went on to explain what being born of the Spirit is like. He compared one born of the Spirit to that of the wind – something which cannot be seen by the human eye. Jesus was trying to tell Nicodemus that a person will undergo a CHANGE when born again – a change from one composed of material, flesh and blood, to one composed purely of spirit – a spirit being. snip…

That would be your personal interpretation (or those of others). However, please consider this:

Matthew 28:19
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

Now, ask yourself this… Why is baptism given such paramount importance in Jesus’ final instructions to the apostles if it is only symbolic? Ultimately, scripture is replete with verses indicating baptism as being part of the salvific process.

 

[juliamajor]

With all the words and scripture flying around there is no real answer to"How" one is born gain. We know it’s a spiritual rebirth but it doesn’t go into detail . There is no set blueprint or “manner” to be born again. One ha s to be born of water and the Spirit-well what the heck does that mean? There really is no straight forward answer… I’ve tore up and down the NT and have yet to decipher what is being “born again”? How does one achieve that status?Are there guidelines? Or is Jesus being deliberately unclear?

 

[po18guy]

With all the words and scripture flying around there is no real answer to"How" one is born gain. We know it’s a spiritual rebirth but it doesn’t go into detail . There is no set blueprint or “manner” to be born again. One ha s to be born of water and the Spirit-well what the heck does that mean? There really is no straight forward answer… I’ve tore up and down the NT and have yet to decipher what is being “born again”? How does one achieve that status?Are there guidelines? Or is Jesus being deliberately unclear?

It is quite interesting, isn’t it, that men’s opinions have come to fill in all of the gaps in scripture. Once you establish the bible-only church of the self, one is free to “complete” scripture and “divine” the Lord’s will. When the Catholic Church has no explanation for such a mystery, certain men rush to fill in the blanks. And, no matter how conflicting their doctrines, the “spirit” lead each of them to their conclusions.

 

[onenow1]

With all the words and scripture flying around there is no real answer to"How" one is born gain. We know it’s a spiritual rebirth but it doesn’t go into detail . There is no set blueprint or “manner” to be born again. One ha s to be born of water and the Spirit-well what the heck does that mean? There really is no straight forward answer… I’ve tore up and down the NT and have yet to decipher what is being “born again”? How does one achieve that status?Are there guidelines? Or is Jesus being deliberately unclear?

HI, JM. When Jesus was baptised the heavens opened up, the Holy Spirit descended, as a dove, Jesus example of baptism should be one of the clues of being born again. Also Jesus Last command to the disciples was to go out and baptise, in the name of the Father and of The Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Peace, and God bless onenow1.

 

[fhansen]

With all the words and scripture flying around there is no real answer to"How" one is born gain. We know it’s a spiritual rebirth but it doesn’t go into detail . There is no set blueprint or “manner” to be born again. One ha s to be born of water and the Spirit-well what the heck does that mean? There really is no straight forward answer… I’ve tore up and down the NT and have yet to decipher what is being “born again”? How does one achieve that status?Are there guidelines? Or is Jesus being deliberately unclear?

**Fortunately, our authority is the Church rather than scripture alone. Jesus’ message is that man now is not the being God intends or intended him to be. A man lives unspiritually, as if there is no God, out of communion with God. This is a disordered state of affairs, but its’ purpose is actually for man to learn a simple lesson, by experiencing good and evil (good being God and all He created and evil being anything outside of Him and His will- we know both of these in this world). The lesson is that man does need God. He needs God not only to exist but in order to live a life worth living. He needs God in order to obtain any kind of happiness worth having. But he doesn’t know this because the sin in him inherited from Adam is the very disposition that causes him to reject God and be separated from Him- *preferring himself *to God-in the first place.

Only God created man. Only God can satisfy man. Only God can save man from himself. So grace is needed for man to turn to God and yet God won’t increase grace without mans’ humility-described best in the Beatitudes- which cause him to cry out, “Abba, Father”. One way this sentiment of faith and hope and love is expressed is by obedience to Jesus commands which includes water baptism. God knows our hearts and is pleased with our faith. Being born again is a process of conversion/ regeneration in which man is transformed from a being who can at best fake holiness -or obedience to the law- to one who obeys it fully by the spirit which ultimately means he’s truly come to love God with his whole heart soul, mind and strength and his neighbor as himself. As physical birth requires a gestation period, so does spiritual birth-one is never “born again” in some instantaneous event. God is about the business of molding us, fulfilling the prophecy of Jer 31, which is quoted in Hebrews:

“This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time,” declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

He wants us truly changed. Don’t we already know that and would we really want it any other way? Water baptism cleanses us of OS but this only the beginning of the process of becoming a new creation in Christ.
**

 

[Mailman]

My friend here’s what Jesus said; Luke 17: 20 being asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God was coming He answered them, " The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed, nor will they say ’ Lo here it is! or there! For behold the Kingdom of God is in the midst of you."

The Pharisees who asked Jesus the question knew, from the prophecies in their Scripture, that their Messiah was to come. But they overlooked the prophecies of His first appearing as the “Lamb of God,” to be slain for the sins of mankind. They looked only to the prophecies of His second coming as the all-conquering King.

But they had, even these prophecies, distorted in their minds. They looked for Him to come as a purely Jewish Messiah, to liberate them from the Romans, so that they in turn would be masters over the Romans. They looked for a limited Jewish kingdom, located on a small part of the world, with the Messiah ruling and letting the Jews lord it over the Romans. They had an erroneous conception of what the Kingdom of God would be like – but at least they knew it was to be a literal reign on earth – a government.

Jesus set them straight. He explained that it would not be a local, or limited Kingdom for the Jews only. It would not be merely one of many human and visible kingdoms which men could point out or see, and say, “This is it, here”; or “that is the Kingdom over there.” But He, Himself, was born to be the King of that Kingdom, as He plainly told Pilate (John 18:36-37). The King of the future Kingdom was, then and there, standing in the midst of them. And that is precisely what He said: “For behold the Kingdom of God is in the midst of you.” (The Bible uses the terms “king” and “kingdom” interchangeably. See Daniel 7:17-18, 23.).

Jesus distinctly said that those Pharisees would not be in the Kingdom of God but that others would be. To them, He said: “There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye [you Pharisees] shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the Kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God" (Luke 13:28-29).

The Kingdom of God is something men shall ENTER, not now, but at the resurrection of the just.

Jesus came to restore creation to His original intent, before man corrupted it with original sin, and presonal sin that arose as a consequence. MM. You seem to construt a view not consistent with God’s original plan, to restore all things.

Pentecost : 3000 were baptised by the Apostles in the Spirit and the Flesh.

The bottom line Jesus came in the fleshand rose in the flesh so he must think it pretty important for us !

Peace, onenow1

Jesus came to save mankind from the penalty incurred due to sin. He died in our stead, paying the penalty for our sin, so that we may not have to die ourselves. He bought our life with His shed blood. Jesus’ life was the price paid for our freedom from that death penalty. The Scriptures say of Him: “Even the Son of man came… to give his life a ransom for many” (Matt. 20:28).

Jesus also came to “restore again the kingdom to Israel” (Acts 1:6). But when this will happen, only the Father knows: “It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.” Christ’s coming to free us from the death penalty makes possible our entrance to that glorious Kingdom. His death and resurrection was the first step in God’s great Plan of salvation.