To Be Born Again

[Mailman]

That would be your personal interpretation (or those of others). However, please consider this:

Matthew 28:19
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

Now, ask yourself this… Why is baptism given such paramount importance in Jesus’ final instructions to the apostles if it is only symbolic? Ultimately, scripture is replete with verses indicating baptism as being part of the salvific process.

I agree with you. Baptism is a requirement for salvation. I never said it’s not.

 

[juliamajor]

HI, JM. When Jesus was baptised the heavens opened up, the Holy Spirit descended, as a dove, Jesus example of baptism should be one of the clues of being born again. Also Jesus Last command to the disciples was to go out and baptise, in the name of the Father and of The Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Peace, and God bless onenow1.

Again, not very clear. Baptism -yes then what? and where are the the definitive answers?

 

[onenow1]

The Kingdom of God is something men shall ENTER, not now, but at the resurrection of the just.

From: onenow1. I don’t think so MM.
John 16

15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

16 “A little while, and you will see me no more; again a little while, and you will see me.”
Quote= onenow1. Crucifixion and Resurrection !

17 Some of his disciples said to one another, “What is this that he says to us, A little while, and you will not see me, and again a little while, and you will see me'; and, because I go to the Father’?” Quote=onenow1 Crucifixion and Resurrection !

18 They said, “What does he mean by `a little while’? We do not know what he means.”

19 Jesus knew that they wanted to ask him; so he said to them, "Is this what you are asking yourselves, what I meant by saying, `A little while, and you will not see me, and again a little while, and you will see me’? Quote=onenow1 Same as above.

20 Truly, truly, I say to you, you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice; you will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will turn into joy. Quote=onenow1 Resurrection !

21 When a woman is in travail she has sorrow, because her hour has come; but when she is delivered of the child, she no longer remembers the anguish, for joy that a child is born into the world. Quote=onenow1 sorrow then the Coming Resurrection !

22 So you have sorrow now, but I will see you again and your hearts will rejoice, and no one will take your joy from you.

23 In that day you will ask nothing of me. Truly, truly, I say to you, if you ask anything of the Father, he will give it to you in my name.

Matt.28: 18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

Quote onenow1. And most especially in all the Catholic and Orthodox Churches in the World.They [WE] recognized Him in the breaking of the bread. Luke 24: 35, Then they told there story of what had happened on the road to emmaus and how they had recognized Him in the Breaking of the bread.

The old covenant :
And this: Malachi.1: 10 Oh, that there were one among you who would shut the doors, that you might not kindle fire upon my altar in vain! I have no pleasure in you, says the LORD of hosts, and I will not accept an offering from your hand.

The new covenant :
11 For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name is great among the nations, and in every place incense is offered to my name, and a pure offering; for my name is great among the nations, says the LORD of hosts.

The old covenant :
12 But you profane it when you say that the Lord’s table is polluted, and the food for it may be despised.
13 `What a weariness this is,’ you say, and you sniff at me, says the LORD of hosts. You bring what has been taken by violence or is lame or sick, and this you bring as your offering! Shall I accept that from your hand? says the LORD.
14 Cursed be the cheat who has a male in his flock, and vows it, and yet sacrifices to the Lord what is blemished; for I am a great King, says the LORD of hosts, and my name is feared among the nations.

Peace and God Bless onenow1 " Hot Dog &

 

[onenow1]

Again, not very clear. Baptism -yes then what? and where are the the definitive answers?

Hi, Again JM.

Titus 3: 5 he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing= Baptism ]of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit

Acts 2: 37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?”

38 And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts. 22: 16 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

Quote= onenow1. I think 1 Cor 6: 9,10,11, is particularly powerful in light of the baptism of Jesus.

Matt. 3: 15 But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now; for thus it is fitting for us to fulfil all RIGHTEOUSNESS” Then he consented.

1 Corinthians 6

9 Do you not know that the UNRIGHTUESS will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts,

10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you. But you were Washed, you were Sanctified, you were Justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

I hope this helps a little JM.

Peace and God Bless.

 

[po18guy]

Jesus distinctly said that those Pharisees would not be in the Kingdom of God but that others would be. To them, He said: “There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye [you Pharisees] shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the Kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God" (Luke 13:28-29).

The Kingdom of God is something men shall ENTER, not now, but at the resurrection of the just.

So, you’re a Jehovah’s Witness? I have been wondering about the source of your unique theology.

 

[fhansen]

Again, not very clear. Baptism -yes then what? and where are the the definitive answers?

Then we either continue to seek God and His will or we don’t. The Church helps us along the way if we’re willing. The sacraments are instruments of His grace along with prayer and deeds and worship and seeking Him through study and any way we express faith in Him. He responds to this with more grace and we grow in the faith and knowledge of Jesus Christ. I did this outside of the Catholic Church until I was finally, gradually, blest with the understanding of her role. We may have long dry spells where we question or virtually reject our faith or periods where we’re so close to God we can almost touch Him but in the end it’s all a process of conversion, of us coming to know- and turn back to- Him.

**Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. John 17:3

**

 

[juliamajor]

What I’m trying to say is- with some Protestant being born again means saying a prayer, accepting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour,proclaiming with your mouth that Jesus is Lord.A kind of nice settled pattern.But nowhere does Jesus say that that is what you have to do to be born again.
.I happen to think that it’s a process- not an action. It might be simple but not simplistic-which some of our brethren think it is. We are in agreement that we need help along the way. If everything could be down individually then why would Christ have created His Church? We are saved individually- but how we get there requires a lot more strength then we are capable of.
Peace- have a blessed Sunday!

 

[fhansen]

What I’m trying to say is- with some Protestant being born again means saying a prayer, accepting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour,proclaiming with your mouth that Jesus is Lord.A kind of nice settled pattern.But nowhere does Jesus say that that is what you have to do to be born again.
.I happen to think that it’s a process- not an action. It might be simple but not simplistic-which some of our brethren think it is. We are in agreement that we need help along the way. If everything could be down individually then why would Christ have created His Church? We are saved individually- but how we get there requires a lot more strength then we are capable of.
Peace- have a blessed Sunday!

yes, it is a process according to Church teaching, one we can’t accomplish on our own- but for man nothing is possible while for God all things are possible. All praise be to Him!

 

[guanophore]

(John 3:5 RSV) Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

As you can see, it refers to being born of water and of the Spirit. The reference to water is a reference to baptism while the reference to the Spirit is a reference to confirmation. I may be wrong on the latter part though.

The Catholic Church teaches that we are fully infused with the HS at baptism. In the Eastern Rites, “confirmation” (chrismation) is given along with baptism and Eucharist at the same time. These three are considered initiatory rites, or the sacraments of reception into the Church. One is considered “born again”, baptized in the HS, sealed, and brought into the Body of Christ all at the same time.

Traditionally, Confirmation was always given by the Apostle, or his successor, the Bishop. As the Church grew rapidly, baptisms had to be done without the presence of the bishop, so the sealing (chrismation) was withheld until the bishop travelled to the area. This is how confirmation became separated from baptism in the Latin Rite.

 

[guanophore]

This clearly tells us that salvation is the state of being born again and having eternal life – being changed from corruptible human flesh to incorruptible, immortal spirit (1 Pet. 1:23). That is how one gets to be “born again.” But that will not happen until after Christ returns, when He shall have established the Kingdom of God. There’s the vital connection. The Kingdom will first have to be there before anyone gets to be born again. Since the Kingdom has not yet come, no one as yet has been born again.

Such an inerpretation is not consistent with Scripture, or with what the Apostles believed and taught. The early church would consider it a heresy.

 

[guanophore]

Let’s now examine your claim that the Kingdom is already here – that Christ has already started His 1,000-year reign. My first question is this: When did this happen? If you believe it has already started, you must have some idea as to when it began. Do you?

In a sense, His reign began with the Jews, when He brought them out of Egypt. However, when He appeared, they did not recognize Him. But Jesus brought the Kingdom anyway, as noted in the reading yesterday:

Luke 4:16-21

16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up; and he went to the synagogue, as his custom was, on the sabbath day. And he stood up to read; 17 and there was given to him the book of the prophet Isaiah. He opened the book and found the place where it was written,

18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,
because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives
and recovering of sight to the blind,
to set at liberty those who are oppressed,
19 to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”

20 And he closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant, and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him. 21 And he began to say to them, “Today this scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.”

Jesus announced that He had brought this aspect of the Kingdom.

Second, we read in Revelation 20:2 that Satan will be bound during this 1,000-year period. If that is so, then Satan is bound now and had been bound since the 1,000-year reign started. So, my next question is this: Why is the world still full of evil, lies and deception when Satan has already been bound?

Jesus gave the Apostles power over the devil, and He promised this same power, and greater deeds, to those who obeyed HIm. The only reason the world is still full of evil is the failure of Christians to live the promises of baptism. Christians have power over Satan. Most of them don’t realize it, and don’t know how to exercise it.

Finally, Rev. 20:5 speaks of a “first resurrection” that will happen immediately preceding the 1,000-year reign. It says those who will be part of that resurrection will rule with Christ. Has this resurrection already occurred? Who were part of this resurrection and who are “the rest of the dead” who “lived not again until the thousand years were finished”? And why has your church not taught anything about a first and a second resurrection?

Yes, this has occurred. We are not sure who these people are. they are the righteous. The teachings of the Catholic Church are found in the NT, which is the product of the Catholic Church. Everything in the NT is Catholic.

Matt 27:51-53

51 And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom; and the earth shook, and the rocks were split; 52 the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, 53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

If God’s Kingdom is already here, why are we still praying to the father for His Kingdom to come?

“Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy Kingdom come…”

This is also a good question. The Kingdom of Heaven has many aspects, like salvation. There are some aspects of our salvation that are completed, some that are in process, and some that are yet to come. In the same way, there are aspects of the Kingdom that are past, some present, and some yet to come.

Whenever Jesus says “the Kingdom of heaven is like” or “may be compared to” He is talking about aspects of the reign of God in the life of the individual that are presently accessible. The Beatitudes are examples of this.

Luke 17:20-21

20 Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; 21 nor will they say, ‘Lo, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”

We are able to participate in the Kingdom of heaven in the here and now. However, there are aspects of it that are yet to come.

 

[guanophore]

Water baptism, because we have to bury our old sinful self and start a new life in Christ; and the presence of the Holy Spirit, because it is the Holy Spirit dwelling in us that shall impart eternal life at the time of our resurrection.

If baptism has no power in itself, how can it do any of these things?

He compared one born of the Spirit to that of the wind – something which cannot be seen by the human eye. Jesus was trying to tell Nicodemus that a person will undergo a CHANGE when born again – a change from one composed of material, flesh and blood, to one composed purely of spirit – a spirit being.

No, Mailman. Humans will never be composed purely of spirit. When we are resurrected, we will have glorified bodies. But a human is not a human without the body.

Notice what the Apostle Paul taught: “Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God…” (1 Cor. 15:50). The Kingdom of God is something a human may inherit, but not when he is still flesh and blood.

If this were true, then all the sayings of Jesus and the Apostles about inheriting the Kingdom here and now would be lies, I guess. Clearly you have misunderstood the teachings of the Apostles. We don’t inherit the kingdom “in the flesh” (with carnal mind) but through our spirit. We inherit it by grace, through faith.

Before that, Paul had said: “The first man is of the earth, earthy [talking about Adam, a human being]: the second man is the Lord from heaven [a divine Spirit Being]” (1 Cor. 15:47). This is what Jesus was trying to tell Nicodemus. He was of the earth, earthy – a human being. He was flesh and blood, not spirit. He was born of the flesh, so that’s what he was – flesh – and so are we all. But when one is born of Spirit, he will be spirit.

And this rebirth happens in baptism.

Paul continued: “As is the earth, such are they also that are earthy” (v.48). This is precisely what Jesus was explaining to Nicodemus. He was born of the flesh – he was flesh. Continue: “…and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.” Aren’t heavenly beings spirit beings?

Yes, but God intends to transform our flesh so that it is fit for heaven, just as He did His own. If you deny that Jesus took human flesh into heaven, then you have denied one of the most fundamental principles of the Gospel.

Next verse: “And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall [notice, in the future] also bear the image of the heavenly” (v. 49). Or, as we are now flesh, we shall be spirit, at a future time. That is when we shall be “born again.”

Well, you got part of it right. We are born again in baptism. When we are glorified, our bodies will be transformed, so that they are fit for heaven. Nothing unclean can enter heaven.

As mentioned before, there is a CHANGE involved in the second birth. Paul also spoke about this: “Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep [be dead], but we shall all be CHANGED, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump [not before]: for the trumpet shall sound and the dead shall be raised incorruptible [only at the resurrection], and we [the then living] shall be CHANGED” (v. 51-52).

Right! but this passage refers to the second coming, not to being born again. You are right, though, we will be transformed.

How shall we be changed? “For this corruptible” – that is, flesh, as we now are – “must put on incorruption” – become spirit, not subject to corruption – “and this mortal must put on immortality” (v. 53) – be changed from material flesh to immortal spirit!

No, Mailman. When Jesus resurrected incorruptible, His flesh was transformed, as ours will be.

Notice the TIME when this change will occur – “at the last trump” – at the resurrection. But when will the trumpet sound to usher in the resurrection? “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first” (1 Thess. 4:16). AT THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST, and not before!

Yes, the transformation of our bodies into incorruptible will happen at the second coming. However, we are born again in baptism.

Since the change – the second birth – will happen only at Christ’s second coming, we can say with certainty that one has yet been born again.

I am not sure who “we” is, because I cannot remember which sect you are representing with your “different doctrine”. However, that about which you are so certain is not consistent with what the Apostles believed and taught.

 

[guanophore]

With all the words and scripture flying around there is no real answer to"How" one is born gain. We know it’s a spiritual rebirth but it doesn’t go into detail . There is no set blueprint or “manner” to be born again. One ha s to be born of water and the Spirit-well what the heck does that mean? There really is no straight forward answer… I’ve tore up and down the NT and have yet to decipher what is being “born again”? How does one achieve that status?Are there guidelines? Or is Jesus being deliberately unclear?

No, Jesus was clear that people are born again of water and spirit in baptism. The ritual for this has been retained from the time of the Apostles to now. Scripture is clear that one must believe in the heart, and profess with the mouth. These elements are part of the Rite of Christian Baptism. One makes a profession of faith, and asks the Church to be made a member of the Body of Christ. You can google Rite of Baptism and read the specifc language that is used, both in the Latin and the Eastern Rites.

 

[guanophore]

But they had, even these prophecies, distorted in their minds.

I believe you are correct! Is this a case of “takes one to know one”?

And that is precisely what He said: “For behold the Kingdom of God is in the midst of you.” (The Bible uses the terms “king” and “kingdom” interchangeably. See Daniel 7:17-18, 23.).

That is why, to the extent that Jesus is among us, we can experience the reign of God in the here and now.

The Kingdom of God is something men shall ENTER, not now, but at the resurrection of the just.

No, Mailman. The Kingdom is entered when we are born from above by water and Spirit in baptism. He places a new heart in us, and transfers us from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light.

Jesus came to save mankind from the penalty incurred due to sin. He died in our stead, paying the penalty for our sin, so that we may not have to die ourselves. He bought our life with His shed blood. Jesus’ life was the price paid for our freedom from that death penalty. The Scriptures say of Him: “Even the Son of man came… to give his life a ransom for many” (Matt. 20:28).

It is very Catholic of you to say this.

Jesus also came to “restore again the kingdom to Israel” (Acts 1:6). But when this will happen, only the Father knows: “It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.” Christ’s coming to free us from the death penalty makes possible our entrance to that glorious Kingdom. His death and resurrection was the first step in God’s great Plan of salvation.

Yes, and in baptism, we are joined with Him to his death and resurrection. That is how it is we can access the first step in God’s great plan of salvation.

 

[guanophore]

Again, not very clear. Baptism -yes then what? and where are the the definitive answers?

In the catechism, and the scripture. Both can be accessed free online. Are you playing devil’s advocate here?

 

[guanophore]

What I’m trying to say is- with some Protestant being born again means saying a prayer, accepting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour,proclaiming with your mouth that Jesus is Lord.A kind of nice settled pattern.But nowhere does Jesus say that that is what you have to do to be born again.

Oh, I see what you mean now.

I happen to think that it’s a process- not an action. It might be simple but not simplistic-which some of our brethren think it is. We are in agreement that we need help along the way. If everything could be down individually then why would Christ have created His Church? We are saved individually- but how we get there requires a lot more strength then we are capable of.
Peace- have a blessed Sunday!

I think it is both an action that takes place once in time, for all time (baptism) and a process (becoming holy). I think St. Peter expresses it very clearly:

1 Peter 2:9
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s own people, that you may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

You are…that you may…

In baptism we are changed, grafted into Christ. This is so that we may do the works that He has prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

You are so right. If there was no corporate aspect, then Jesus would not have needed to found a church.

 

[MDK]

I wish the same thing for you. I also forgive your insults to a post that attacked no one and only tried to share a truth to those who are interested.

Projection maybe, and imagination? There were no insults to forgive, so you did nothing in reality. We’re waiting for truth from you. So far, all we see is an inauthentic religion you’ve created for yourself. None of the Apostles would agree with you (which means Christ does not), nor would those they taught and passed down the teachings to. Your interpretations of our Catholic Book, the Bible are simply on the level of garbage and people should not listen to you, at least if they desire to be an authentic Christian. Since you’ve made your own religion, please don’t dare call yourself an authentic Christian. That, you are not.

I can understand why you reacted the way you did. Satan, as you mistakenly believe, is not bound up. He is free and doing everything he can to keep people in the dark. God’s Word says he is “the god of this world” (2 Cor. 4:4). Yes – Satan, not God, is the ruler of this world, thus says the God of the Bible. And that God cannot lie (Tit. 1:2). When He tells you to “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour,” you better believe it. When He tells you “Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light” (2 Cor. 11:4), you better make sure you have not been deceived by false ministers claiming to be God’s ministers and by pious-looking people claiming to be your friends.

No, I don’t think you do understand me, or much of anything else in the proper perspective. What you write bears witness to that. I am quite confident I am getting the authentic truth. You, however, are sadly falling into exactly what you accuse us of. I pray that you come out of your stupor.

Please, please… we all understand simple English. I’m sure you do, too. Read the Scripture again: “They lived and reign with Christ a thousand years.” What false meanings are you talking about? Didn’t I say Christ will reign a thousand years also – exactly what that Scripture says? If I had said Christ will NOT reign a thousand years, then you can accuse me of putting a different meaning into the words of Scripture because it doesn’t say that – it says just the OPPOSITE.

Yes, the English words you can read, but you don’t know what they mean as taught. The ignorant treat the Bible as completely and totally literally. It was never written that way. The Jews didn’t believe the OT was all literal, and the inspired Catholic men never intended that the NT be literal. They were written two thousand years ago, and the Catholic Church has protected these teachings.

The one thousand year reign was not ever meant to be literal. The literal thousand year time is not authentic Christianity, yet it is what you believe. If you make up your own religion, you’re not authentically Christian. The Catholic Church knows what is and is not in the Bible. She authored the NT and the table of contents. Can you make the same claim, or tell us why you know better than the Church God protects?

I hope you know the difference between these two statements:

1. There are things in the Scriptures which are hard to understand.
2. Everything in the Scriptures is hard to understand.

I do. But sadly you apparently don’t understand what the first means, and how it applies to you.

If you did your homework on other posts I’ve made, you would see where I had told people that certain texts did not require magisterial interpretation, as they are clear. You, however treat them all as though they are clear to you, but your “clear” view is not in touch with reality. Please come over to authentic Christianity, as Christ made His Catholic Church to feed his people with authentic Truth and Sacraments.

 

[MDK]

I don’t think anyone here is attempting to make a “prophecy of Scripture.”

private exposition." You quoted it as saying “no prophecy of Scripture is for private interpretation.” No, Peter did not say that.

You’re wrong again. It’s from the Douay-Rheims and the quote from 2 Peter 1:20 is “Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation.”

If I turned this question back around at you, you would be a little (perhaps more than a little) offended by it. That’s a pretty reliable clue for you that it’s not such a great question to ask of a fellow believer, even if he is a Protestant. Perhaps especially if he’s a Protestant.

No, not offended at all, but it doesn’t make any sense. I am following those Christ sent into the world to learn the faith established by God, while Protestants (and cafeteria Catholics) rely on themselves to determine what their religion is. Your attempted criticism is like praise from a wise person.

I’m trying not to be harsh. I hope that’s gentle enough. I am busting your chops a little, but I hope I’m doing it lightly enough that you know I mean well by it.

I really don’t understand the need for such a post. It accomplished nothing useful, except to expose that you need a lot of work on your ability to read, do research, and understand.

 

[MDK]

In support (I hope) of Mailman:

We Catholics can’t have it both ways when and where it suits us.

If I said that Jesus was speaking symbolically when he said, “This is my body,” I would be roundly chastised and called every kind of heretic.
Catholics take those words, and the bit from John (“unless you eat the flesh…”) quite literally. There is no argument tolerated about the literal nature of those passages.

Yet, when it comes to the many prophecies about the end of time, especially the book of revelation, it’s all “symbolic” and “to be read in context”. The “kingdom of God is here on earth now”; “the kingdom of god is in our hearts”, and other meaningless platitudes.

I’m tired of the little “sayings” about how Jesus died to put an end to sin, and how Satan has been defeated.
Look around: do you still see examples of sin in the world? Do you think Satan has been defeated or bound up?

I believe Jesus died to show that a sinless person can avoid the penalty of death (hence his resurrection), to teach us how to live, and to tell people about the coming kingdom of God. Sin has been allowed to continue for now, in order to show us (by our own acts) how badly we can get it wrong. Satan has been allowed to reign over the earth for a time.
When things become so bad that no flesh would be saved alive otherwise, God will intervene in the most decisive manner in human history to establish a Kingdom here on earth. The trumpet will sound. The dead will be raised.
That’s being “born again”.

Anyway, some of this post constitutes my own views–although they are quite common among Christians, are far from revolutionary, and come from a reasonable understanding of scripture.

On the whole, Mailman is right.

Do you think that God allows us to use our own interpretations of His word, rather than His? No one ever said that Protestants had it all wrong. They do have some things right, but never met one yet who “on the whole is right.” If they were right on the whole, they would not do things Protestants do, like distort God’s message. Which part of Gods word is it okay to distort?

 

[zach_dunn]

Thanks for all of the replies!

Zach