To be deep in the bible is to cease to be Catholic

[Giver]

mercygate:

My Plymouth Brethren colleague was just in my office telling me that the Great Commission was given only to the 11, that Jesus was speaking only to the 11 when he promised that he would send the Spirit who will “guide you into all the truth.” Seems like even die-hard Protestants agree that private interpretation is trouble. (Now if only we can get this guy to connect the dots about WHERE the authority of the eleven resides today!)

Paul wasn’t one of the eleven yet God came and made him apostle, don’t you think maybe that is how all Christians who were to be apostles should have been and still should be appointed? All you who think that the Gifts were just for the eleven apostles, how wrong you are. Just read this Scripture from Peter.

(Acts 2:38-39) “You must repent, Peter answered and every one of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise that was made is for you and your children, and for all those who are far away, for all those whom the Lord our God is calling to himself.”

(John 10:14-16) “I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep. And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.
(Hebrews 8:10-12) “No, this is the covenant I will make with the House of Israel when those days arrive-it is the Lord who speaks. I will put my laws into their minds and write them on their hearts. Then I will be their God and they shall be my people. There will be no further need for neighbour to try to teach neighbour, or brother to say to brother, ’Learn to know the Lord’. No, they will all know me, the least no less than the greatest, since I will forgive their iniquities and never call their sins to mind.”

(John 14:26) “but the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and remind you of all I have said to you.”
Giver
(1 Corinthians 2:10-16) “These are the very things that God has

I wonder how many Christians who now go to church (Mass, or any regular Sunday service in any Christian church) has ever been to a service where people: (1 Corinthians 14:26-29) “So, my dear brothers, what conclusion is to be drawn? At all your meetings let everyone be ready with a psalm or a sermon or a revelation, or ready to use his gift of tongues or to give an interpretation; but it must always be for the common good, If there are people present with the gift of tongues, let only two or three, at the most, be allowed to use it, and only one at a time, and there must be someone to interpret. If there is no interpreter present, they must keep quiet in church and speak only to themselves and to God. As for prophets, let two or three of them speak, and the others attend to them.”

St. Paul told us (1 Corinthians 2:13-14) “Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. An unspiritual person is one who does not accept anything of the Spirit of God he sees it all as nonsense; it is beyond his understanding because it can only be understood by means of the Spirit.”

(John 10:16) “And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.” (John 10:27) “The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.”

(Acts 2:38-39) “Peter answered ‘and everyone of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus
Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise that was made is for you and your children, and for al those who are far away, for all those whom the Lord our God will call to himself.”

(Hebrews 8:10-12) “No, this is the covenant I will make with the House of Israel when those days arrive-it is the Lord who speaks. I will put my laws into their minds and write them on their hearts. Then I will be their God and they shall be my people. There will be no further need for neighbour to try to teach neighbour, or brother to say to brother, ’Learn to know the Lord’. No, they will all know me, the least no less than the greatest, since I will forgive their iniquities and never call their sins to mind.”

 

[bookgirl]

Giver:

Paul wasn’t one of the eleven yet God came and made him apostle, don’t you think maybe that is how all Christians who were to be apostles should have been and still should be appointed? All you who think that the Gifts were just for the eleven apostles, how wrong you are. Just read this Scripture from Peter.

(Acts 2:38-39) “You must repent, Peter answered and every one of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise that was made is for you and your children, and for all those who are far away, for all those whom the Lord our God is calling to himself.”

(John 10:14-16) “I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep. And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.
(Hebrews 8:10-12) “No, this is the covenant I will make with the House of Israel when those days arrive-it is the Lord who speaks. I will put my laws into their minds and write them on their hearts. Then I will be their God and they shall be my people. There will be no further need for neighbour to try to teach neighbour, or brother to say to brother, ’Learn to know the Lord’. No, they will all know me, the least no less than the greatest, since I will forgive their iniquities and never call their sins to mind.”

(John 14:26) “but the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and remind you of all I have said to you.”
Giver
(1 Corinthians 2:10-16) “These are the very things that God has

I wonder how many Christians who now go to church (Mass, or any regular Sunday service in any Christian church) has ever been to a service where people: (1 Corinthians 14:26-29) “So, my dear brothers, what conclusion is to be drawn? At all your meetings let everyone be ready with a psalm or a sermon or a revelation, or ready to use his gift of tongues or to give an interpretation; but it must always be for the common good, If there are people present with the gift of tongues, let only two or three, at the most, be allowed to use it, and only one at a time, and there must be someone to interpret. If there is no interpreter present, they must keep quiet in church and speak only to themselves and to God. As for prophets, let two or three of them speak, and the others attend to them.”

St. Paul told us (1 Corinthians 2:13-14) “Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. An unspiritual person is one who does not accept anything of the Spirit of God he sees it all as nonsense; it is beyond his understanding because it can only be understood by means of the Spirit.”

(John 10:16) “And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.” (John 10:27) “The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.”

(Acts 2:38-39) “Peter answered ‘and everyone of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus
Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise that was made is for you and your children, and for al those who are far away, for all those whom the Lord our God will call to himself.”

(Hebrews 8:10-12) “No, this is the covenant I will make with the House of Israel when those days arrive-it is the Lord who speaks. I will put my laws into their minds and write them on their hearts. Then I will be their God and they shall be my people. There will be no further need for neighbour to try to teach neighbour, or brother to say to brother, ’Learn to know the Lord’. No, they will all know me, the least no less than the greatest, since I will forgive their iniquities and never call their sins to mind.”

I give up Giver. You’re absolutely infusing any meaning you want to into any of these verses. None of this is in context. None of this says: “Anybody can come up with their own personal interpretation of scripture by asking the HS.” And if it does say that, it definitely does NOT say what to do when everybody comes up with there own and how to differentiate between what is truth or not. AND you won’t answer that question. Saying the same thing over and over and posting a TON of verses that say no such thing is not an argument. It’s not going to convince a group of people that have the authority of a Church that can VERY CLEARLY trace it’s roots to Peter and the apostles. That has 2000 years of well documented and trusted doctrine (no matter how hard you try to say it’s not, you’ve never once proved that point, nor anything else you’ve claimed).

 

[all4one]

Giver:

Paul wasn’t one of the eleven yet God came and made him apostle, don’t you think maybe that is how all Christians who were to be apostles should have been and still should be appointed? All you who think that the Gifts were just for the eleven apostles, how wrong you are. Just read this Scripture from Peter.

(Acts 2:38-39) “You must repent, Peter answered and every one of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise that was made is for you and your children, and for all those who are far away, for all those whom the Lord our God is calling to himself.”

(John 10:14-16) “I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep. And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.
(Hebrews 8:10-12) “No, this is the covenant I will make with the House of Israel when those days arrive-it is the Lord who speaks. I will put my laws into their minds and write them on their hearts. Then I will be their God and they shall be my people. There will be no further need for neighbour to try to teach neighbour, or brother to say to brother, ’Learn to know the Lord’. No, they will all know me, the least no less than the greatest, since I will forgive their iniquities and never call their sins to mind.”

(John 14:26) “but the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and remind you of all I have said to you.”
Giver
(1 Corinthians 2:10-16) “These are the very things that God has

I wonder how many Christians who now go to church (Mass, or any regular Sunday service in any Christian church) has ever been to a service where people: (1 Corinthians 14:26-29) “So, my dear brothers, what conclusion is to be drawn? At all your meetings let everyone be ready with a psalm or a sermon or a revelation, or ready to use his gift of tongues or to give an interpretation; but it must always be for the common good, If there are people present with the gift of tongues, let only two or three, at the most, be allowed to use it, and only one at a time, and there must be someone to interpret. If there is no interpreter present, they must keep quiet in church and speak only to themselves and to God. As for prophets, let two or three of them speak, and the others attend to them.”

St. Paul told us (1 Corinthians 2:13-14) “Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. An unspiritual person is one who does not accept anything of the Spirit of God he sees it all as nonsense; it is beyond his understanding because it can only be understood by means of the Spirit.”

(John 10:16) “And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.” (John 10:27) “The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.”

(Acts 2:38-39) “Peter answered ‘and everyone of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus
Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise that was made is for you and your children, and for al those who are far away, for all those whom the Lord our God will call to himself.”

(Hebrews 8:10-12) “No, this is the covenant I will make with the House of Israel when those days arrive-it is the Lord who speaks. I will put my laws into their minds and write them on their hearts. Then I will be their God and they shall be my people. There will be no further need for neighbour to try to teach neighbour, or brother to say to brother, ’Learn to know the Lord’. No, they will all know me, the least no less than the greatest, since I will forgive their iniquities and never call their sins to mind.”

You might also add: John21:20-24 "Peter turned and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them and the one whom had been reclining at table close to Him and had said “Lord, who is it that is going to betray you?” When Peter saw him he said to Jesus “Lord, what about this man?” Jesus said to him “If it is my will that he remain till I come what is that to you? You follow me!” So the saying spread abroad among the brothers that this dicsiple was not to die; yet Jesus did not say that he was not to die, but, “If it is my will that he remain till I come what is that to you?”
Not only are there different folds but they (the ‘brothers’) were already spreading wrong interpretations of Jesus’ words.
To think that the magisterium has the only interp is hard to swallow. Al

 

[edward_george]

Giver

(aka Robert Heibel–it can’t be coincidence…the birthdate on the profiles is the same, as is your linguistic structure–and tired old arguments that have been answered time after time yet you ignore our answers and respond with non-sequiturs)

If Jesus answers all your questions and teaches you all you need to know, why do you even bother with a Bible? Shouldn’t you just be able to ask Jesus what to say about a particular doctrine, rather than go to the Bible? Why not cut out the middle man and go directly to Jesus, since you’re so fond of telling Catholics to do so.

Another thing, Jesus established a Church. Matthew 16:18 “on this rock I will build my church.” Not “I will talk to a bunch of random individuals and tell them what they need to know,” not “I will leave you a book that you are to accept as the only source of religious truth.” “I will build my Church” is what he says. And this is a Church with Bishops and Presbyters and Deacons, as evidenced by Scripture and dozens of first-century writings by the Early Church Fathers. In the words of Cardinal Newman, “To become deep in history is to cease to be Protestant.” I know that you will deny that you are Protestant when in fact you are. You protest the Church that Jesus said he was going to build and protect from the gates of hell.

May the Holy Spirit show you unto the light of truth.

-ACEGC

 

[Giver]

bookgirl:

I give up Giver. You’re absolutely infusing any meaning you want to into any of these verses. None of this is in context. None of this says: “Anybody can come up with their own personal interpretation of scripture by asking the HS.” And if it does say that, it definitely does NOT say what to do when everybody comes up with there own and how to differentiate between what is truth or not. AND you won’t answer that question. Saying the same thing over and over and posting a TON of verses that say no such thing is not an argument. It’s not going to convince a group of people that have the authority of a Church that can VERY CLEARLY trace it’s roots to Peter and the apostles. That has 2000 years of well documented and trusted doctrine (no matter how hard you try to say it’s not, you’ve never once proved that point, nor anything else you’ve claimed).

Why don’t you quit stressing about it, and just ask Jesus because He is the only one who can really teach and convince you.

 

[bookgirl]

Giver:

Why don’t you quit stressing about it, and just ask Jesus because He is the only one who can really teach and convince you.

I did ask Jesus, and He told me that the Catholic Church is the Church He instituted in the New Testament that would never be without Him. So who’s right, you or me? We both asked Jesus, He gave us two different answers.

 

[Giver]

bookgirl:

I give up Giver. You’re absolutely infusing any meaning you want to into any of these verses. None of this is in context. None of this says: “Anybody can come up with their own personal interpretation of scripture by asking the HS.” And if it does say that, it definitely does NOT say what to do when everybody comes up with there own and how to differentiate between what is truth or not. AND you won’t answer that question. Saying the same thing over and over and posting a TON of verses that say no such thing is not an argument. It’s not going to convince a group of people that have the authority of a Church that can VERY CLEARLY trace it’s roots to Peter and the apostles. That has 2000 years of well documented and trusted doctrine (no matter how hard you try to say it’s not, you’ve never once proved that point, nor anything else you’ve claimed).

Praise God! You do and believe as Jesus leads you. It is your soul and that is all your responsible for.
Giver

 

[bookgirl]

Giver:

Praise God! You do and believe as Jesus leads you. It is your soul and that is all your responsible for.
Giver

What if Jesus told me to jump off of a tall building, would you be praising God then?
:banghead:

 

[edward_george]

Praise God! You do and believe as Jesus leads you. It is your soul and that is all your responsible for.

So you don’t think it’s one bit odd that bookgirl asked Jesus and he said that the Catholic Church is right, while you asked Jesus and got a different answer? Jesus is the way, the TRUTH and the life. So why would he lead one person to truth but another to something entirely opposed to truth (i.e. denial of the priesthood, hierarchy, etc.) ?

Also, you didn’t answer my question from earlier. Why do you even bother with a Bible if Jesus gives you all your answers? Why not cut out the middle man?

-ACEGC

 

[Church_Militant]

The whole premise of this thread is messed up IMO, because I happen to have returned to the Catholic faith because of the Bible. The deeper I get into the Word of God then more I love my Catholic faith and frankly I would be highly suspect of anyone who came along telling me that “Jesus told me to leave the Catholic Church and to believe things that only came into existence about 500 years ago, but that cannot be traced back to the early Christians…” That’s just nuts!

Anything that cannot verify it’s existence in church history prior to the 1500’s is what the New Testament calls a “new wind of doctrine” and I have yet to see any of that measure up to the New Testament unless you pull it outta context and twist it (at least) a bit.
I’ll won’t be fooled again. My story.
Pax vobiscum,

 

[edward_george]

Exactly…well said, CM!

-ACEGC

 

[St.Eric]

Forgive my ignorance, but, who is Robert Heibel?

 

[Montie_Claunch]

Dear Mr. Giver,

What is wrong? I worry about not beleiving in Jesus and his promises that he gave his Church. Obviously if you don’t beleive that Jesus would protect His Church from the gates of Hell there is something wrong with your faith. What’s wrong?

 

[mercygate]

Giver:

Paul wasn’t one of the eleven yet God came and made him apostle, don’t you think maybe that is how all Christians who were to be apostles should have been and still should be appointed? . . .

Even among those who experience “road to Damascus” conversions, the “right hand of fellowship” is an important ratification of the experience. Paul’s circumstance was unique. Paul himself sought the endorsement of the Church in Jerusalem in order to affirm his gospel lest he had been “running in vain.” Gal 2:9, Acts 15. I do not believe that being knocked to the ground and blinded is a reasonable criterion for discerning a call to ordination. Barnabas was not among the 12, nor was Matthias, nor were a couple of other people named in the New Testament, who nevertheless received the title “apostle,” ordained to that ministry and “enrolled with the eleven” by the Church through the laying on of hands (Acts 1:26)

(Acts 2:38-39) “You must repent, Peter answered. . . and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. . . .

We receive the Holy Spirit in many ways in support of the different charisms of the Church, each according to his calling (Eph 4:11) Receiving the Holy Spirit is not necessarily for the apostolic or teaching ministry.

(John 10:14-16) “I am the good shepherd; . . . They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.

Catholics are big on these verses. Especially the “one flock, one shepherd” part.

(Hebrews 8:10-12) ". . . There will be no further need for neighbour to try to teach neighbour, or brother to say to brother, ’Learn to know the Lord’. No, they will all know me, . . . ”

How do you reconcile this with the Great Commission?

(John 14:26) “but the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and remind you of all I have said to you.”

Speaking to the eleven.

I wonder how many Christians who now go to church (Mass, or any regular Sunday service in any Christian church) has ever been to a service where people: (1 Corinthians 14:26-29) . . . At all your meetings let everyone be ready with a psalm or a sermon or a revelation, or ready to use his gift of tongues or to give an interpretation; but it must always be for the common good, If there are people present with the gift of tongues, let only two or three, at the most, be allowed to use it, and only one at a time, and there must be someone to interpret. . . .

We certainly have psalms and sermons. Revelations? Hm. Wasn’t revelation closed with the death of the last Apostle? Interpreters of tongues are necessary when there is speaking in tongues. Actually, the Catholic charismatic movement is still pretty strong.

St. Paul told us (1 Corinthians 2:13-14) “Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. An unspiritual person is one who does not accept anything of the Spirit of God he sees it all as nonsense; it is beyond his understanding because it can only be understood by means of the Spirit.”

Huh? You imply in this quotation that spiritual understanding is incompatible with reason. Not true. And in other verses you cite, God says there will be no need for teaching.

(John 10:16) “And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.” (John 10:27) “The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.”

Yup. Follow him right into His Church.

(Acts 2:38-39) “Peter answered ‘and everyone of you must be baptized . . . and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise [was for] those who are far away, for all those whom the Lord our God will call to himself.”

Still no private locutions in contradiction of Scripture.

(Hebrews 8:10-12). . . I will put my laws into their minds and write them on their hearts. . . . There will be no further need for neighbour to try to teach neighbour, or brother to say to brother, ’Learn to know the Lord’. No, they will all know me, the least no less than the greatest . . . .”

How do you reconcile this with the Great Commission?

 

[mercygate]

all4one:

You might also add: John21:20-24 "Peter turned and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them and the one whom had been reclining at table close to Him and had said “Lord, who is it that is going to betray you?” When Peter saw him he said to Jesus “Lord, what about this man?” Jesus said to him “If it is my will that he remain till I come what is that to you? You follow me!” So the saying spread abroad among the brothers that this dicsiple was not to die; yet Jesus did not say that he was not to die, but, “If it is my will that he remain till I come what is that to you?”

Not only are there different folds but they (the ‘brothers’) were already spreading wrong interpretations of Jesus’ words.

To think that the magisterium has the only interp is hard to swallow. Al

Huh? Who are the brothers?

 

[mercygate]

Giver:

Why don’t you quit stressing about it, and just ask Jesus because He is the only one who can really teach and convince you.

Why don’t you share with us the process by which you and have tested the spirit of these locutions of yours? (I Jn. 4)

 

[bookgirl]

mercygate:

Why don’t you share with us the process by which you and have tested the spirit of these locutions of yours? (I Jn. 4)

Good luck everyone, I’ll see you next week .

 

[TobyLue]

Giver said:

Why don’t you quit stressing about it, and just ask Jesus because He is the only one who can really teach and convince you.

Giver, Look at the news. Seems like very frequently we hear about some heinous crime committed. Anyone can do a search and find many of the horrors committed because these people believed God was telling them to commit certain atrocities. You tell others to just ask Jesus. So did Jesus tell you that the Catholic Church was wrong? You keep avoiding answering that question. HOW DO YOU KNOW IT IS JESUS TALKING TO YOU? You have been given explanations showing you in detail the truths that God has revealed and proof. You have given us zilch other than throwing bible verses around and hijacking several threads and saying “I’m not allowed in this forum to share personal revelations” You misunderstand what the moderators mean by “unapproved private revelations”

Please answer Bookgirl’s answer to you

I did ask Jesus, and He told me that the Catholic Church is the Church He instituted in the New Testament that would never be without Him. So who’s right, you or me? We both asked Jesus, He gave us two different answers.

You have insinuated that Jesus told you that the CC was wrong. Is Jesus flip-flopping here? Is Jesus confused? Is Jesus just pulling somebody’s leg? Is Jesus just a big joker telling people different things and laughing that they are all going different directions? Who is right? And don’t reply with “I received the Holy Spirit”.

 

[Della]

edward_george:

Giver

(aka Robert Heibel–it can’t be coincidence…the birthdate on the profiles is the same, as is your linguistic structure–and tired old arguments that have been answered time after time yet you ignore our answers and respond with non-sequiturs)

If Jesus answers all your questions and teaches you all you need to know, why do you even bother with a Bible? Shouldn’t you just be able to ask Jesus what to say about a particular doctrine, rather than go to the Bible? Why not cut out the middle man and go directly to Jesus, since you’re so fond of telling Catholics to do so.

Another thing, Jesus established a Church. Matthew 16:18 “on this rock I will build my church.” Not “I will talk to a bunch of random individuals and tell them what they need to know,” not “I will leave you a book that you are to accept as the only source of religious truth.” “I will build my Church” is what he says. And this is a Church with Bishops and Presbyters and Deacons, as evidenced by Scripture and dozens of first-century writings by the Early Church Fathers. In the words of Cardinal Newman, “To become deep in history is to cease to be Protestant.” I know that you will deny that you are Protestant when in fact you are. You protest the Church that Jesus said he was going to build and protect from the gates of hell.

May the Holy Spirit show you unto the light of truth.

-ACEGC

Valiant effort, but I already brought up these points. Giver’s response? Ignore them and go gliding on pretending to know what he’s talking about. I give up! Giver doesn’t want to learn anything here. He only wants to tell Catholics they’ve got everything all wrong, so what is the use? He’s just trolling

 

[all4one]

bookgirl:

Good luck everyone, I’ll see you next week .

Just an observation;
Doesn’t look like you’re going the extra mile to me bookgirl.
I would think someone to whom *Jesus spoke to * about the CCC would be overflowing with His spirit. On the contrary Giver has stayed the course in a pretty hostile environment and has remained unscathed. Al