To be deep in the bible is to cease to be Catholic

[RyanL]

NonDenom:

You may not want to admit it, but most Catholic’s that leave the church will tell you that it was there study of the scriptures that caused them to leave the Catholic church. I think that a lot of the reason why is because of the oral tradition’s that arent mentioned in the scriptures.

ND (an abbreviation close to my heart…see location),

I will readily admit that many poorly catechised Catholics leave the Church when they start studying the Scriptures, especially when that Scripture study is led by someone with a non-Catholic agenda. It does happen all the time.

But what about those who study the Scriptures with a Catholic-led study? Would they also leave the Church? Wouldn’t they also see the “truth” that you did? If not, why not?

Also, it’s erronious to say that the Sacred Traditions that the Church holds are not mentioned in Scripture. Some are explicit (Baptism, Eucharist, Immaculate Conception, Assumption of Mary, etc) and some are implicit (Trinity, etc.)

Here’s a challenge (better suited as the start of a new thread):
Pick any Catholic Sacred Tradition you would like, and I’ll show you where it comes from in the Bible. Any one. Seriously. Try me. Some are implicit, and some are explicit, but you’ll never get to the implicit ones without Sacred Tradition (including the Trinity - hence JWs, modalists, etc.). BTW, if you don’t know the difference between (t)raditions and (T)raditions, you may want to start here.

Good luck, and God Bless,
RyanL

 

[Della]

NonDenom:

Hi
It is my opinion that the reason you hear it, is most former Catholics will tell you that it was because of their getting into the scriptures that they converted. There are five people in our church that were former Catholics and we are a small congregation. My wife went to Catholic school and to Catholic church for 27 years, and it wasn’t until I got her into some Bible studies that discovered the truth. You may not want to admit it, but most Catholic’s that leave the church will tell you that it was there study of the scriptures that caused them to leave the Catholic church. I think that a lot of the reason why is because of the oral tradition’s that arent mentioned in the scriptures.
Thanks

I hate to contracdict you, but you didn’t get your wife into the Bible and so she saw the truth. You got your wife into your particular denom’s interpretation of the Bible, and since she wasn’t up on her Bible, as she ought to have been, she believed whatever you told her it meant.

The Bible is the Catholic Church’s book. It is not your Bible. You may interpret it however you please, but that does not make your interpretation “the truth” any more than my interpretation of the Constitution would mean anything since I am not a constitutional lawyer trained in interpreting it as it was meant to be interpreted.

Only the Catholic Church has the key to proper interpretation of the Bible since it was the Catholic Church that wrote the NT (in the persons of its Apostles and other early Church, apostolic age Christians, such as Luke and Mark). The Catholic Church decided the canon of the Bible in the 4th century and finally confirmed it in the 16th century.

All through the Dark Ages Catholic monks and scribes copied it and preserved it for future generations. You and your denom are johnny-come-latelies who have no more right to determine doctrine and dogma, as supported by Scripture, than one of my pet cats.

 

[ComradeAndrei]

and it wasn’t until I got her into some Bible studies that discovered the truth. You may not want to admit it, but most Catholic’s that leave the church will tell you that it was there study of the scriptures that caused them to leave the Catholic church.

Seems the exact opposite happened to me. The more and more I read the Bible in light of the Catholic Church and of the Early Fathers of the Church there is no way that I could see Holy Scripture as a protestant book.

Even when I read it on my own without really taking into account the CC, I still couldn’t see how it proves the protestant view because without proper guidance I can interpret it as I think is right. No protestant can tell me I was wrong because they are doing the same thing. You either have the Truth, or you have a bunch of squabbling interpretations that are at each other’s throats-and God is not the God of confusion.

Most “Catholics” who leave Holy Mother Church for some other sect see the “truth” in Scriptures by being fed carefully strained half-truths, misinterpretations and full-out theological blunders, the crowning piece of this theological blunder being “Sola Scriptura”.

A Catholic that doesn’t take their faith seriously often has many misconceptions about what the Church teaches, and often times has had that protestant misconception of Sola Scriptura creep into their consciousness. When confronted with “Biblical truths” that “prove” the Church is “wrong” they don’t know how to argue it and fall into the trap of thinking that the Catholic Church is wrong because someone from First Nat’l McChurch of Christ the Baptist gives them some proof texts about “Call no man father”, “all have sinned”, “faith alone”, etc. etc. that seem to go against the Catholic Church. Rubbish.

I think that a lot of the reason why is because of the oral tradition’s that arent mentioned in the scriptures

Perfect example. You beg the question. Of course Tradition doesn’t hold weight if it is not in Scripture if you follow Sola Scriptura but we don’t and there is no good reason to follow Sola Scriptura because it doesn’t even follow its own rule-it isn’t mentioned in the Bible!

However, to the misinformed Catholic who buys this, they might think, “Hmm…the Church must be wrong because they contradict the Bible…” and would fall into the error of private interpretation. The Tradition IS in the Bible-not always explicit but always at least implicit. Take the other poster’s challenge of coming up with a Catholic Tradition (not tradition) that isn’t at least implicit in the Bible. You can’t do it, many have tried-all have failed.

 

[mlchance]

NonDenom:

My wife went to Catholic school and to Catholic church for 27 years, and it wasn’t until I got her into some Bible studies that discovered the truth.

Not “discovered.” Rather “distorted” and “obscured.”

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[NonDenom]

Della]I hate to contracdict you, but you didn’t get your wife into the Bible and so she saw the truth. You got your wife into your particular denom’s interpretation of the Bible, and since she wasn’t up on her Bible, as she ought to have been, she believed whatever you told her it meant.

Now why would you acuse me of doing the same thing that you do. (edited offensive remark)

The Bible is the Catholic Church’s book. It is not your Bible. You may interpret it however you please, but that does not make your interpretation “the truth” any more than my interpretation of the Constitution would mean anything since I am not a constitutional lawyer trained in interpreting it as it was meant to be interpreted.

Your right it’s not my Bible, it’s not yours or your church’s Bible either. It is GODS word, and he used good men as a tool to give us HIS message. The men who wrote the scriptures never took credit for them. They all gave credit to the one who deserves it.

All through the Dark Ages Catholic monks and scribes copied it and preserved it for future generations. You and your denom are johnny-come-latelies who have no more right to determine doctrine and dogma, as supported by Scripture, than one of my pet cats.

]

I follow Christ and believe me he is no Johny-come-lately. I will put all my faith in him,(edited offensive remark).
Thanks

 

[LSK]

Your right it’s not my Bible, it’s not yours or your church’s Bible either. It is GODS word, and he used good men as a tool to give us HIS message. The men who wrote the scriptures never took credit for them. They all gave credit to the one who deserves it.

The Holy Scriptures were gathered together into a book, The Bible, by a Council called by the Catholic Church. It is, therefore, a Catholic Book. But, as we have told you many times, Catholics are not merely children of the Book. We are Children of the Word INCARNATE - Christ Jesus HIMSELF.

I follow Christ and believe me he is no Johny-come-lately. I will put all my faith in him, you can put your faith in man if you want.

Of course Jesus is not a Johnny-come-lately…He is the Word made Flesh…and in the Beginning was the WORD…He is God and God has no Beginning and has no end…every Catholic knows that…

 

[Church_Militant]

NonDenom:

Hi
It is my opinion that the reason you hear it, is most former Catholics will tell you that it was because of their getting into the scriptures that they converted. There are five people in our church that were former Catholics and we are a small congregation. My wife went to Catholic school and to Catholic church for 27 years, and it wasn’t until I got her into some Bible studies that discovered the truth. You may not want to admit it, but most Catholic’s that leave the church will tell you that it was there study of the scriptures that caused them to leave the Catholic church. I think that a lot of the reason why is because of the oral tradition’s that arent mentioned in the scriptures.
Thanks

Your poor wife is in for a terrible shock then because I for one am one of the Catholics that took the time to do my own homework and not let someone “get me into some Bible studies”, and as a result of that I came home to the Catholic faith and I am your personal worst nightmare…a Catholic who knows both the Word of God and what the Catholic Church teaches as well as what the early church taught and knows the misdirections and misinterpretations of the various passages of the Bible that n-Cs and a-Cs used to mislead Catholics away from our most holy faith.

Frankly I was really torqued off at the false doctrines that I was taught by people who waved a Bible and thumped their pulpits and prayed out loud in tongues and told us that the rapture was coming and that Catholics believe this that and the other when in fact most of it was not true at all, and what little they did get right they didn’t understand well enough to offer a worthwhile opinion on anyway.

The Bible was all over the place at my house as a kid and if I didn’t get into it it is because I chose not to do so. The fact is that the vast majority of church going non-Catholics are no more knowlegeable about the Word of God and what Christianity has taught for 2,000 years than the average CINO or fallen away Catholic. And in both cases, the fault lies with the individual themself. I have generally found that those who whine that the Catholic Church never taught them the Bible didn’t go to Mass and pay careful attention or make any real effort to know their faith to begin with. This was my own problem…and I was Catholic educated for 12 years & from a devout family.

The doctrines of protestantism are not based on the Bible, but on parts of the Bible pulled out of context and then interpreted to suit the doctrines that each group of people in any given church choose to purport. There are far to many things that are clearly Catholic that are read around… taught around…or just rationalized, spiritualized, and /or metaphorized to make non-Catholic Christianity appear valid. A close friend and I were talking about this once and I had to laugh at him when he looked at me and dubbed n-C religions as “Christianity Lite”.

Don’t try to tell us that the Bible justifies the errors that are taught as Christian doctrine in non-Catholic churches because that is just silly at best and heretical at worst. The wide diversity of belief on anything but the very “core” doctrines is so drastic that it’s no wonder that there is so much division and confusion and outright error being taught.

Catholics are comin’ home in droves and there are a lot of great people who are doing their own homework and finding out the truth (Thanks Be To God!) and entering the Catholic Church. I’m just grateful to God that He led me home by His Holy Spirit. Now I can really get to work for Him!
Lead, follow, or get out of our way!
Pax vobiscum,

 

[ComradeAndrei]

Some folks always pull the tired, “You Catholics do everything the pope says…” Show me any instance in all of history where the Pope has ordered the Faithful to do something contrary to the constant teaching of the Church.

The Pope has never said something stupid and contradictory to what the Church has constantly taught (as there is no new revelation) and with all that history of not doing such things, there is nothing to suggest that he would.

Also, if the Pope says something in the realm of faith and morals, he has some authority. What is your authority? If you say the Bible, what gives you the authority to interpret it and who says you are right?

Your right it’s not my Bible, it’s not yours or your church’s Bible either. It is GODS word, and he used good men as a tool to give us HIS message. The men who wrote the scriptures never took credit for them. They all gave credit to the one who deserves it.

God gave us Holy Scripture through the Catholic Church so it is the Catholic Church’s book in the sense that you can’t twist its meaning to go against the very Church that the Bible got its start from.

I follow Christ and believe me he is no Johny-come-lately.

Sure, so does everyone else. What validates your claim? Your interpretation of “following Christ” does not jive with ours, but neither do you have the weight of history, the Fathers or any other validating evidence for your position other than private interpretation.

I will put all my faith in him, you can put your faith in man if you want.

How is putting our faith in the Church, the very Mystical Body of Christ, putting our faith in man? We put our faith in Christ how Christ commanded that we do so.

 

[CindyGia]

NonDenom:

Hi
My wife went to Catholic school and to Catholic church for 27 years, and it wasn’t until I got her into some Bible studies that discovered the truth.
Thanks

Hey dude,
I propose you give your wife the addy to this Forum and this thread and let her defend her own reasons as to why she left the Catholic Church.

Betcha’ in no time, she’ll be coming back to Holy Mother Church and you won’t be able to stop her!

 

[Della]

Quote:
Della]I hate to contracdict you, but you didn’t get your wife into the Bible and so she saw the truth. You got your wife into your particular denom’s interpretation of the Bible, and since she wasn’t up on her Bible, as she ought to have been, she believed whatever you told her it meant.

Now why would you acuse me of doing the same thing that you do. (edited offensive remark)

Quote:
The Bible is the Catholic Church’s book. It is not your Bible. You may interpret it however you please, but that does not make your interpretation “the truth” any more than my interpretation of the Constitution would mean anything since I am not a constitutional lawyer trained in interpreting it as it was meant to be interpreted.

Your right it’s not my Bible, it’s not yours or your church’s Bible either. It is GODS word, and he used good men as a tool to give us HIS message. The men who wrote the scriptures never took credit for them. They all gave credit to the one who deserves it.

If it’s only God’s Bible, then no one has the right to interpret it. So, how does that work?

Quote:
All through the Dark Ages Catholic monks and scribes copied it and preserved it for future generations. You and your denom are johnny-come-latelies who have no more right to determine doctrine and dogma, as supported by Scripture, than one of my pet cats.

I follow Christ and believe me he is no Johny-come-lately. I will put all my faith in him,(edited offensive remark).
Thanks

Sound the trumpets to round that off! Please, no one has said you have no faith in Christ. But, what you don’t have is a clear understanding of what the Bible is, what it was compiled for, and who has the right to intrepret it for all of the faithful in matters of faith and morals. Guess what? It isn’t you or your particular Protestant sect.

 

[TobyLue]

The reason many cease to be Catholic is that the Bible only people will point out to Catholics certain verses of scripture that prove that the Catholics are wrong, They say that:

The Bible says “call no man your father” and Catholics go against the bible by calling priest “father”!

The Bible says “you shall not worship idols” and Catholics kneel before statues and worship them!

The Bible says that we should worship only God and Catholics worship Mary!

The Bible warns us about conjuring up the dead the Catholics pray to the saints and to Mary and talk to them and they are dead!

The Bible says keep holy the Sabbath day and the Sabbath day is Saturday and Catholics worship on Sundays!

The Bible says that we are saved by “faith alone” and Catholics say that it is works that save them!

The Bible says that you should not repeat prayers and Catholics pray the rosary which is repetitive!

The Bible says that all you have to do is proclaim with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe and we are saved. Catholic believe in all this thing about “sacraments”!

The Bible says that Jesus made one sacrifice for all time and Catholics crucify Jesus again and again at the Mass!

The Bible says that Jesus is risen from the dead but Catholics keep him crucified by wearing crucifixes!

The Catholics “invented” purgatory, the papacy, the Immaculate Conception, the assumption the perpetual virginity of Mary and the Bible says Jesus had “brothers”, they eat and worship wafers!

Then they point out to “history” and they show them where the Catholic Church burned bibles and they forbade people to read the bible. They show them where the CC killed 65,000,000 people during the Inquisition!!
The Bible warns us about adding to the Word of God and Catholic “added” books to the Bible!!!

You need to read and believe in the Bible, and not on some sinful man in Rome! You need to believe in Jesus Christ not these men that follow traditions! Jesus condemned traditions!

And the list goes on and on and etc., and etc. 

So you see that the Catholic Church is wrong, wrong, wrong; its time to come out of the whore of Babylon!!

Of course these poor ignorant souls quickly say, “Oh, wow!! You are so right!!” Immediately they go and rid themselves of all statues, burn all their Douay-Rims Bible and buy the “only true Bible”, the KJV and now they saved and free!!!
Now some of you who left and have returned to the Church, tell me if this is true or not.

 

[RyanL]

ND,

I’m serious about the “picka a tradition, any tradition” challenge. Wanna’ take me up on it?

God Bless,
RyanL

 

[cheddarsox]

mercygate:

Sounds more like disillusionment with the Bible led you out of Christianity than out of the Catholic Church qua Catholic Church.

Thanks, but I’m capable of speaking for myself. I’d rather not have you speculate over my faith journey without you even knowing me.

I never said I was disillusioned with the Bible. And I did not leave Christianity when I left the Catholic church.

If you want to know someone’s story, it is better and kinder to ask than to speculate on a public forum.

cheddar

 

[MariaG]

Hi all,

I am busy making new threads to respond to Tobylou. If it is not already too late, hang tight, I’ll post the links on this thread to the new ones.

God Bless,

Maria

 

[MariaG]

Nondenom,

You keep giving many generalities and no specifics.

Could you be more specific? You talk about discovering the Truth and Oral traditions not in Scripture. Which truth? What Traditions?

Many here are glad to go talk of this, with specifics and Bible references.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[mercygate]

cheddarsox:

Thanks, but I’m capable of speaking for myself. I’d rather not have you speculate over my faith journey without you even knowing me.

I never said I was disillusioned with the Bible. And I did not leave Christianity when I left the Catholic church.

If you want to know someone’s story, it is better and kinder to ask than to speculate on a public forum.

cheddar

Sincere apologies; my speculation was prompted by the note that you had become a pantheist. Thus, while others seemed to be addressing a flight to Protestantism, it seemed more accurate to seek clarification on whether you had abandoned Christianity altogether. I see that your flight from Catholicism was not immediately out of Christianity altogether – a significant point which, I somehow overlooked. I was responding only to the “pantheist” part, which is, of course, outside of Christianity.

Again, sincere apologies for my carelessness.

 

[mlchance]

cheddarsox:

And I did not leave Christianity when I left the Catholic church.

Fair enough. Now if someone were to decide to be, say, a pantheist, then it is accurate to say that someone has left Christianity.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Montie_Claunch]

TobyLue:

The reason many cease to be Catholic is that the Bible only people will point out to Catholics certain verses of scripture that prove that the Catholics are wrong, They say that:

The Bible says “call no man your father” and Catholics go against the bible by calling priest “father”!

But, that is to that out of context. Jesus was talking about a group of people who were takeing titles to themshelves and not deserving it. Jesus acknoledged earthly fathers when he quoted the ten comandment “Hounor thy FATHER and thy mother”. And Paul talks to Timothy and Titus and others that they are his spiritual sons and he is their spiritual Father. If anything it is biblical.

The Bible says “you shall not worship idols” and Catholics kneel before statues and worship them!
Ohhh…why didn’t I see it when I converted. We worship statues. are you serious…guess you are. Listen in days of old and in still well mannered places it is customary to bow (as true Southern Genlteman should) but, that doesn’t mean that a man is worshiping eavry lovly lady or high offical. Just showing due respect. And ferther more it’s not to the statue. When my Granddad died my Grandmother kept a picture of him hanging in the common area not to remeber the picture but, him. Same thing with the statues of Jesus.

The Bible says that we should worship only God and Catholics worship Mary!
cheak out forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=79639
I also like the fact that my Cathism says in the index that it is not worship/adoration (another word for worship) ccc 971

The Bible warns us about conjuring up the dead the Catholics pray to the saints and to Mary and talk to them and they are dead! Well I will tell you next time we “Comjure them up” 'cause to the extent of my knowledge they are up in heaven and unless God sends them down they stay there.

  The Bible says keep holy the Sabbath day and the Sabbath day is Saturday and Catholics worship on Sundays!   [churchofgodcarmichael.org/sabbath/sabbcontents.html](http://www.churchofgodcarmichael.org/sabbath/sabbcontents.html)

catholic.com/library/Sabbath_or_Sunday.asp

 The Bible says that we are saved by “faith alone” and Catholics say that it is works that save them! But, That Faith is Dead without works. Read the book of James.

The Bible says that all you have to do is proclaim with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe and we are saved. Catholic believe in all this thing about “sacraments”! Same as above. and Check out the Sacrement section of the Main website.

 The Bible says that Jesus made one sacrifice for all time and Catholics crucify Jesus again and again at the Mass! And Paul said "And we preach Christ crucified," 1Cor. 1:23

.

 

[Montie_Claunch]

The Bible says that Jesus is risen from the dead but Catholics keep him crucified by wearing crucifixes! Yes we overtly don’t think that Christ rose again. When I go to Mass I hear "Christ has died, Christ has RISEN, Christ WILL COME AGAIN. And what is wrong with having something to remind us of Christs sacrifice.

The Catholics “invented” purgatory, the papacy, the Immaculate Conception, the assumption the perpetual virginity of Mary and the Bible says Jesus had “brothers”, they eat and worship wafers!
Lets take this one thing at a time.
Purgatory. scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html nothing but, the bible in this website.
The Papcey catholic.com/library/church_papacy.asp
All things Mary scripturecatholic.com/blessed_virgin_mary.html
Then they point out to “history” and they show them where the Catholic Church burned bibles and they forbade people to read the bible. They show them where the CC killed 65,000,000 people during the Inquisition!! ??? how? The areas that it operated in (Spain, italy, southern france and little bits of what is now Germany) didn’t have that many people at the time. I once asked Dr. Qwinn (A non-catholic professor at Lamar who specilizes in the time frame) said that it was more like 10 thousand.
The Bible warns us about adding to the Word of God and Catholic “added” books to the Bible!!!
No we didn’t. Ya’ll “Subtracted” books from the Bible!!! The early Church Fathers Bileived in it. catholic.com/library/Old_Testament_Canon.asp
scripturecatholic.com/deuterocanon.html
You need to read and believe in the Bible, and not on some sinful man in Rome! You need to believe in Jesus Christ not these men that follow traditions! Jesus condemned traditions!
What? Jesus supported Sacred Tradition. Cheack Scripture out here scripturecatholic.com/scripture_alone.html
And the list goes on and on and etc., and etc. Yes. A very very poor list that the bible “Alone” can disprove. Really.

 So you see that the Catholic Church is wrong, wrong, wrong; its time to come out of the whore of Babylon!!

Catholic Church isn’t cheack forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=68287 out.

 

[TobyLue]

Montie

But, that is to that out of context

Oh, I know. All of my examples of course Bible only believers take out of context. Call no man father is one of the first that I have seen that they point out to prove the CC wrong. A few years ago my parish priest was asked to lead a procession through downtown on the Feast of Corpus Christi. He was carrying the monstrance and four men had the canopy, followed by several hundered people. I had the thurible. We had mass at one church then processed to another about 8-9 blocks away where we had a rosary. When we passed a small park, there was some guy shouting with a bible in hand and when he saw that we were passying buy, he started shouting and pointing to us “THE BIBLE SAYS CALL NO MAN YOUR FATHER… blah, blah, blah”".

I was just pointing out what some people use as the excuses to leave the CC. I think the 65 million figure was from the book by Lorraine Boettner “Roman Catholicism”.
I talked with one of my wife’s cousin regarding tradition because he said that Jesus was against it. I explained “Tradition” vs “tradition”. He called me the next day and thank me because he looked into it and now understands and is all thrilled about coming back to the CC.