To Be in Heaven, You Must Be Catholic

[Randy_Carson]

You are using the word “catholic” to mean human being. A bit far-fetched.

Nope. :nope:

It really is staggeringly simple. :yup:

EVERYONE who is in heaven, regardless of what they were in this life, WILL be a member of the Body of Christ, which is the (Roman) Catholic Church. :extrahappy:

Not Lutheran Catholic. Not Anglo-Catholic. Not Orthodox Catholic. :tsktsk:

The reasons that this is true have been carefully laid out in this thread if you care to go back and read. :coffeeread:

 

[Randy_Carson]

What if the atheist just happened to be born into an atheist family; would that make his errors less wrong? Being born into Protestantism doesn’t make Protestantism okay, either - it was still founded on a rejection of the Holy Tradition of the Apostles, as symbolized by knocking the heads off their statues at St. Andrew’s Cathedral in 1560.

However, those born into heresy are not formally heretics themselves, as I understand it.

 

[tskrobacz]

Not at all. The Roman Catholic Church in its 24 Rites exists in three modes: the Churh Militant, which is every Roman Catholic member of any of the 24 Rites that are in communion with Rome; the Church Suffering, which includes every soul in Purgatory, and the Church Triumphant, which includes every soul in Heaven. You might object, “but they cannot be under the earthly authority of the Pope if they are in Heaven!” Listen again to the promise made to St. Peter: WHATSOEVER thou bindest on earth (any rule he makes) is bound in Heaven.

Everyone in Heaven is also under the authority of the Bishop of Rome, successor of Peter. They are also Roman Catholic.

The promise also included “WHATSOEVER thou loosed on earth is loosed in heaven:”

Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven

 

[PRmerger]

The promise also included “WHATSOEVER thou loosed on earth is loosed in heaven:”

Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven

Not sure what your point is here?

 

[jmcrae]

The promise also included “WHATSOEVER thou loosed on earth is loosed in heaven:”

Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven

And … ?

 

[ffg]

You really think your God would care if someone rejected him?

Did Jesus die on the Cross for the fun of it?

Unconditional love, it’s hard to grasp as a human, but does have a sense of logic when trying to understand in light of a ‘Loving Creator’.

 

[Rob03]

This is just ridiculous. The Bible, the one true source, states in John 3:5, “Most assuredly I say to you , unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” You MUST BE BORN AGAIN TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. It has nothing to do if you are catholic or not. Salvation is not determined by religion. Joel 2:32 states, “whoever call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:9-10 states, “that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”
Also, I’ve seen posts where they say, “pray the rosary. It’s powerful.” Pleas show me where in the Bible it states Mary can grant you salvation. Acts 4:11-12 states, “The stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ Nor is there salvation in any other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” Hebrews 1:5-15 states, “For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”? And again: “I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son”? But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: “Let all the angels of God worship Him.” And of the angels He says: “Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire.” But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” And: “You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands. They will perish, but You remain; And they will all grow old like a garment; Like a cloak You will fold them up, And they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not fail.” But to which of the angels has He ever said: “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”? Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?:” Jesus has the power. All the saints and angels bow down to Jesus Christ!
Colossians 2:8 reads, “Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.” Believing anything besides the Bible is foolishness! I beg and plead to every one of you to just open up your Bible and read his word. Reading the Bible would put an end to all this foolishness.

 

[clem456]

This is just ridiculous. The Bible, the one true source, states in John 3:5, “Most assuredly I say to you , unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” You MUST BE BORN AGAIN TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. It has nothing to do if you are catholic or not. Salvation is not determined by religion. Joel 2:32 states, “whoever call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:9-10 states, “that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”
Also, I’ve seen posts where they say, “pray the rosary. It’s powerful.” Pleas show me where in the Bible it states Mary can grant you salvation. Acts 4:11-12 states, “The stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ Nor is there salvation in any other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” Hebrews 1:5-15 states, “For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”? And again: “I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son”? But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: “Let all the angels of God worship Him.” And of the angels He says: “Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire.” But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” And: “You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands. They will perish, but You remain; And they will all grow old like a garment; Like a cloak You will fold them up, And they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not fail.” But to which of the angels has He ever said: “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”? Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?:” Jesus has the power. All the saints and angels bow down to Jesus Christ!
Colossians 2:8 reads, “Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.” Believing anything besides the Bible is foolishness! I beg and plead to every one of you to just open up your Bible and read his word. Reading the Bible would put an end to all this foolishness.

You realize the Bible contains books which were not handed to the Christian community in gold-bound volumes direct from heaven? And that no tape recorders or vidcams were available? And that none of the books of the bible were written on the spot? In fact the earliest books were written about 20 years AFTER the death of Jesus?

On whose authority was the **oral tradition **contained in your bible perpetuated? And then written down? And then compiled into a canon to the form you hold fast to today? Before there was a bible, what was there?
Answer: the authority and Tradition of the Catholic Church, given to it by Jesus Christ himself.

 

[kmcarl56]

Provocative title, eh?

I hoped to get your attention, because I’m floating this argument which I put together this morning.

1. Jesus only has one body.
2. To be in heaven, one must be a member of the body of Christ
3. The body of Christ is the Church.
4. The Church instituted by Christ has a name – the Catholic Church.
   Therefore, to be in heaven, one must be a member of the Catholic Church.

As a non-Catholic Christian, I am so confused by this… Where in the Bible does it say that the Church was to be named “Catholic”?

Why do Catholics believe that all others who claim Jesus as their Lord and Savior, and have been baptised in the Holy Trinity, and who partake of the Eucharist, and who pray to the same God, giving Him honor and glory in all they do and say to the best of their ability, are going to Hell? Are those Christians pagan?

I agree with #s 1, 2 and 3. I just have a hard time understanding #4 because of #s 1, 2 and 3. Please explain to me so that I can be more informed, not because I don’t believe in one church in Jesus’ name.

 

[clem456]

As a non-Catholic Christian, I am so confused by this… Where in the Bible does it say that the Church was to be named “Catholic”?

**Why do Catholics believe that all others **who claim Jesus as their Lord and Savior, and have been baptised in the Holy Trinity, and who partake of the Eucharist, and who pray to the same God, giving Him honor and glory in all they do and say to the best of their ability, are going to Hell? Are those Christians pagan?

I agree with #s 1, 2 and 3. I just have a hard time understanding #4 because of #s 1, 2 and 3. Please explain to me so that I can be more informed, not because I don’t believe in one church in Jesus’ name.

That is not what Catholics believe.
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

Especially sections 13 through 16

 

[Rob03]

What you are referring to is the New Testament. Read the Old Testament. Do you believe anything the Bible has to say or is are beliefs based off catholic tradition? I’m interested in how catholic tradition differs from the Bible?

 

[tskrobacz]

Not sure what your point is here?

You conveniently left off the fact that the Church can also loosen interpretations and those looser interpretations can then become binding. The focus is always on what is bound but never what is unbound in the name of Love.

 

[ffg]

What you are referring to is the New Testament. Read the Old Testament. Do you believe anything the Bible has to say or is are beliefs based off catholic tradition? I’m interested in how catholic tradition differs from the Bible?

Hi Rob,

Welcome to CAF! I hope you enjoy your stay. Thanks for your thoughts.

I don’t want to rehash too much, but as it was stated many times throughout this thread. The OP position is not ‘have to be Catholic on earth to get to heaven’.

It’s ‘in heaven everyone is Catholic’.

Perhaps it would make more sense to put it this way - Do you agree or could consider everyone in heaven is on the same page theologically speaking?

 

[Rob03]

So the argument is there is going to be religion in heaven?

 

[clem456]

What you are referring to is the New Testament. Read the Old Testament. Do you believe anything the Bible has to say or is are beliefs based off catholic tradition? I’m interested in how catholic tradition differs from the Bible?

This says it more effectively than I could hope to muddle through:
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s1c2a2.htm

 

[ffg]

So the argument is there is going to be religion in heaven?

In short, yes, kind of, the argument is not religion in heaven, but rather the Catholic religion, so he’s stretching to a point of specificity.

The Church on earth is the Church Militant, the Church in Heaven is the Church Triumphant. I should link something here to the CCC, perhaps later. Of course, if you are interested, you will find the info.

Consider this, if Jesus is God and if the Church is true, then if the Catholic Eucharist is Jesus (God) who said quite quizically at the time that one must partake, then gave the manner in which to do so at the last supper…

Is it really illogical that angels and saints are on bended knee at the altars around the world as the Mass’ are culminating with the presence of God?

If this can be considered a possibility, considering those folks that are on the same page in heaven as Catholic is odd, but possible.

I haven’t much thought about this until this thread. I grew up learning the Church Militant and Church Triumphant, but never really linked them.

 

[Rob03]

So I want to make sure I’m reading this right. So the Catholic church believes in the Bible as long as Tradition backs it up? So if tradition doesn’t support a certain part of the Bible, the Church doesn’t believe it?

 

[Rob03]

In short, yes, kind of, the argument is not religion in heaven, but rather the Catholic religion, so he’s stretching to a point of specificity.

The Church on earth is the Church Militant, the Church in Heaven is the Church Triumphant. I should link something here to the CCC, perhaps later. Of course, if you are interested, you will find the info.

Consider this, if Jesus is God and if the Church is true, then if the Catholic Eucharist is Jesus (God) who said quite quizically at the time that one must partake, then gave the manner in which to do so at the last supper…

Is it really illogical that angels and saints are on bended knee at the altars around the world as the Mass’ are culminating with the presence of God?

If this can be considered a possibility, considering those folks that are on the same page in heaven as Catholic is odd, but possible.

I haven’t much thought about this until this thread. I grew up learning the Church Militant and Church Triumphant, but never really linked them.

So when Jesus came we became the catholic, which means universal in greek. I get we are united in the body of Christ. But to take the word catholic and turn it into religion blows my mind. There are so many scriptures in the new and Old Testament that say to trust in religion, which is man made, is just foolishness. I just don’t get it.

 

[ffg]

So I want to make sure I’m reading this right. So the Catholic church believes in the Bible as long as Tradition backs it up? So if tradition doesn’t support a certain part of the Bible, the Church doesn’t believe it?

Your Bible and tradition concerns are classic mis-information.

For instance, it’s a tradition in your Church that the Bible is the most important thing. It’s also tradition to teach that the Catholic Church is mis-informed about the importance of the Bible.

You and I are using Tradition along with the Bible today.

There is no Tradition vs Bible. It’s ‘and’. From ‘and’ we start learning the truth about our religion’s traditions and make logical decisions (hopefully).

 

[ffg]

So when Jesus came we became the catholic, which means universal in greek. I get we are united in the body of Christ. But to take the word catholic and turn it into religion blows my mind. There are so many scriptures in the new and Old Testament that say to trust in religion, which is man made, is just foolishness. I just don’t get it.

How about trusting in Jesus? Can we trust Him?