To Protestants: Why aren't you Catholic?

[Huguenot]

Paris Blues:

And I want a honest answer too! I don’t want none of the “oh, it’s a freedom of religon!”…yada yada yada…

For Protestants who are NOT anti-Catholic and yet have nothing against the Church, why do you stay Protestant than???

I am not anti-Catholic but I don’t agree with all the teachings of the Catholic church, so why should I become a Catholic ? I don’t think it would be honest to convert in these conditions …
But I occasionally attend Mass and I have a lot of Catholic friends since I am in France and most French people are Catholics …

For me becoming a Protestant was a choice, I was brought up in an atheist family, I became a believer by reading the Bible and Protestantism looked ( and still looks ) closer to the Bible than Catholicism…

 

[Huguenot]

THutch04:

I think this is part of the reason why some people do not convert. In some parts of the world, there is a real sense of ethnicity being tied to which Church you belong to. For example, I know someone who came from the Netherlands, where there is a large Dutch Reformed population. She said she would never even consider leaving, because it’s not just a system of beliefs, it’s a whole family history as well. There are some people who come from a long line of people practicing a certain faith, and would find leaving it to almost go against their families. I personally come from a long line of Anglicans, and I know many of them would not consider leaving, because it seems like it’s been in our family forever (even though we were all Catholic before there was an Anglican Church). For some people, you don’t question which faith you practice, you just do what has been in your family the longes. I agree that it’s not a really good reason to not convert, but at the same time, there can be a lot of pressure to stay within a certain faith, and maybe not everybody is ready or able to make the decision to go against what their family is doing.

Well I went against my family when I became a Protestant : they are all either agnostics or atheists …

 

[Paris_Blues]

**Been off the boards for a time. But here is my 2cents worth.

IMHO One of the reasons that many people don’t become Catholic is because of the public image many of us Catholics make or don’t make. We tend not to tell about our beliefs and how we practice them in our own lives. We tend to keep quiet that we hear a larger percentage of Holy Bible readings at the weekly Mass then most other religions teach. Some of us preach one thing and do some things that don’t follow those teachings. We are poor examples.

Many of us can’t tell others what we believe and resort to the old “I’m Catholic and you should know what we believe” tactic. CCD is not the end of learning about OUR Church. It should be the starting place of learning. I have talked to many people that are “Cafeteria Catholics” and most of the ones I know stopped reading and learning about our wonderful Catholic Church when they stopped going to CCD. Unless you were an adult when you attended CCD, you learned about Holy Mother Church as a child not as an adult. This is a good foundation to build on. But, a foundation is just what it says it is, the basis of further building.

People will not seek what we have we don’t show joy and happiness in our lives. We need to show our joy and let others see in us what it is to be Catholic in every way.

So this in my opinion is why many people don’t become Catholic.
**

I think many people don’t become Catholic because of what they’ve been taught or told by friends, parents, etc. and since they were ignorant and just believed whatever was told to them, they just assumed that the Catholic Church was, oh, the Whore of Babylon, the Pope the anti-Christ, was unbiblical, etc. etc. and also about the Reformation, they’ll say, well, I’m NEVER going to be Catholic because the Church was bad at that time and thank goodness Martin Luther did something to stop it… and yada yada yada.

If only they took the time to realize what the Church REALLY is, not for the faults in the past (which by the way, is NOT the Church’s fault, it’s the MEMBERS in it…even my mom believes this and she’s not Catholic!), only then they would discover they will “walk into Heaven”. But I know some who think their church is better than the CC and wont give a dang. They also think that they KNOW more than the CC. In my opinion, I think that’s like “playing God”

And, of course, it could be their hardened heart by not wanting to accept the Church because what they’ve been told has been/was embedded deep in their heart and they will not change, etc. except by God’s Grace so who knows.

Why am I Catholic? Good question. I can’t even answer that myself! I am Catholic because the Church can be traced all the way back 2,000 years ago, therefore, the teachings from Jesus were passed on to the Apostles which passed down the teachings which passed down, keeps going and going…up 'till today! Do you really think I would want to be in any other Church than the CC? If I’m going to be a Christian, I want the FULLNESS!!

 

[Huguenot]

Hilde_Mari:

This anti-Catholic phenomenon is totally new to me. I’m not Protestant because I have anything against Catholic teachings.

Sadly, where you live, and who your parents are, have a lot to say when it comes to choosing your religion. Living in Norway I was baptized and later confirmated into the Lutheran-Evangelical church. The confirmation was my own choise. It was either Lutheran, Humanistic or none.

My problem is geographical. The nearest Catholic church is far away because Catholicism is low represented here, and Protestantism is dominating. If I move to a place where there is a Catholic church, I’ll probably convert.

Well, I have the same geographical problem as you , but the other way round : I’m French and …Protestant, since we represent only about 2% of the population, in some places there are no Protestant places of worship, I even moved to another region in order not to be alone any more …

 

[JSmitty2005]

Huguenot:

Well I went against my family when I became a Protestant : they are all either agnostics or atheists …

That’s great news!

 

[Brian_C]

Huguenot:

Well, I have the same geographical problem as you , but the other way round : I’m French and …Protestant, since we represent only about 2% of the population, in some places there are no Protestant places of worship, I even moved to another region in order not to be alone any more …

It’s okay, my wife comes from good Huguenot stock and she is converting nicely.

Yes, it never ceases to amaze me. I spent 2 hrs last night explaining to my mom (baptized but never confirmed pre-Vatican II who went Baptist and became director of childrens’ ed at the church) what Catholics believe. She loves it but she just never would convert, I don’t think. She thinks of her (and my childhood) church as just a ridiculous fashion show. Of course, I think if my grandfather would have put his foot down w/ my grandmother, I wouldn’t have to be going thru RCIA right now. But, I think he didn’t b/c as a 1st gen American, he didn’t mind seeing his daughter grow up more mainstream protestant.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

JSmitty2005:

Are you discouraging evangelization? Apologetics and reasoning are both fueled by the grace of God!

No, I’m not.​

But unless they are graced, they are useless.

God does not save us by reason - reason will not reveal the meaning of Christ; Who He is, is revealed by the Father. Simon did not reason his way to a recognition of Jesus as the Messiah; the Messiahship of Jesus was revealed to him.

Reason can bring us to the death of Jesus - it cannot bring us to the living reality of His Resurrection. we receive that, by grace and faith; not by reason. ##

 

[DARichards]

I think that this is probably one of the most important things to remember. We cannot convince ourselves of our need for the saving power of the Lord. It is by grace that God chooses to reveal himself to us and we respond by faith to what He has shown us. At that point we have a responsibility to respond out of our faith in obedience to Christ.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

JSmitty2005:

Are you discouraging evangelization? Apologetics and reasoning are both fueled by the grace of God!

No, I’m not.​

But unless they are graced, they are useless.

God does not save us by reason - reason will not reveal the meaning of Christ; Who He is, is revealed by the Father. Simon did not reason his way to a recognition of Jesus as the Messiah; the Messiahship of Jesus was revealed to him.

Reason can bring us to the death of Jesus - it cannot bring us to the living reality of His Resurrection. we receive that, by grace and faith; not by reason. ##

Mickey:

I think he is saying that we can only assist in planting seeds. By grace, God will water and nurture the seed. The resulting fruit will be according to the will of God.

JSmitty2005:

I can totally agree with that then. That’s the whole point, but when some people use ambiguous language it’s hard to tell what they really mean.

Where’s the ambiguity ? Reason and apologetics are worthless, useless, of no value, a waste of time, unless they are made effective by God’s grace. Otherwise, those who engage in evangelisation or apologetics or reasoning may as well be talking in a language unknown to their hearers, for all the good it does. They might as well jump up and down pretending to be chimpanzees, if they do not rely on God’s grace.​

Or are we to to think that our efforts, without grace, can have saving power ? What an absurd idea. The Gospel is a Divine revelation, coming wholly from God’s grace, owing nothing whatever to man and his puny intelligence. It is not some inane human philosophy or speculation, but a Divine gift, given for our salvation.

St.Paul relied, not on clever arguments, but on the power and grace of God. The Cross is exactly what “the clever debater of this world” cannot understand; it is a reproach and an insult to the self-conceit of those who think that man can come to God without grace by reason by any other way than faith. “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of understanding” - reason, is not.

Reason cannot understand the Gospel of grace, because the Gospel tramples reason underfoot and crucifies it. God acts in a wholly unreasonable way; for He loves His enemies, and gives His own Son, Whom He Loves, into their hands to kill and crucify. And He does, not because He is under any constraint, but because He is sovereignly free to judge and condemn those who unceasingly sin against Him. He acts as He does, from nothing but grace. And grace cannot be accounted for or reasoned to by reason; reason is wholly incompetent to come to it by the native power of reason; which is in any case greatly darkened in man: so how can darkened man by reason come to the God of grace and Father of Light ? The question is its own answer - he cannot.

I meant exactly what I said - without grace, the use of reason in evangelisation or apologetics is as valuable as a pile of vomit. It’s utterly worthless.

I hope that is unambiguous ##

 

[JSmitty2005]

## No, I’m not.

But unless they are graced, they are useless.

God does not save us by reason - reason will not reveal the meaning of Christ; Who He is, is revealed by the Father. Simon did not reason his way to a recognition of Jesus as the Messiah; the Messiahship of Jesus was revealed to him.

Reason can bring us to the death of Jesus - it cannot bring us to the living reality of His Resurrection. we receive that, by grace and faith; not by reason. ##

Where’s the ambiguity ? Reason and apologetics are worthless, useless, of no value, a waste of time, unless they are made effective by God’s grace. Otherwise, those who engage in evangelisation or apologetics or reasoning may as well be talking in a language unknown to their hearers, for all the good it does. They might as well jump up and down pretending to be chimpanzees, if they do not rely on God’s grace.​

Or are we to to think that our efforts, without grace, can have saving power ? What an absurd idea. The Gospel is a Divine revelation, coming wholly from God’s grace, owing nothing whatever to man and his puny intelligence. It is not some inane human philosophy or speculation, but a Divine gift, given for our salvation.

St.Paul relied, not on clever arguments, but on the power and grace of God. The Cross is exactly what “the clever debater of this world” cannot understand; it is a reproach and an insult to the self-conceit of those who think that man can come to God without grace by reason by any other way than faith. “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of understanding” - reason, is not.
I meant exactly what I said - without grace, the use of reason in evangelisation or apologetics is as valuable as a pile of vomit. It’s utterly worthless.

I hope that is unambiguous ##

I apologize if I misunderstood you, but you seemed to be saying that apologetics and reasoning are not from God’s grace. Maybe we agree more than you think. (see below)

JSmitty2005:

**Conversion is a grace - that is why apologetic and reason and force are all useless **

at converting people. Are you discouraging evangelization? Apologetics and reasoning are both fueled by the grace of God!

Also, concerning this most recent post, you seem to be setting up a false dichotomy between faith and reason. It is not unreasonable to have faith. In fact, it’s unreasonable not to. Again, I may be misreading you, but that’s the impression I get.

 

[Justice2006]

Faith and Reason

"In its issue no. 134 (1992), the journal, Faith and Reason, published from Manchester College, Oxford (England), brought out an article titled, ‘The Relationship between Faith and Reason’, by Dr Paul Badham. Paul Badham is a Professor of Theology and Religious Studies at St. David’s College, Lampeter, in the University of Wales. His paper in this issue had been presented at a Conference of the Institute of Philosophy of the Russian Academy of Science in Moscow in November 1991.

Professor Badham’s paper can indeed be called thought-provoking, and as such, is worth reading, but he has made certain points with which I do not agree. He states that philosophical certainty should not be confused with religious certitude. He writes: As a philosopher of religion I feel compelled to acknowledge that faith could never be placed on the same level of certainty as scientific knowledge’ (p. 6). On the contrary, I feel that faith and belief can be placed on the same level of certainty as scientific theory. At least, in the twentieth century there is no real difference between the two…"
cont

For details…go to the thread: ** “Fath & Reason”**

 

[Huguenot]

JSmitty2005:

That’s great news!

Thanks for your encouraging words …

 

[Huguenot]

Brian_C:

It’s okay, my wife comes from good Huguenot stock and she is converting nicely.

Yes, it never ceases to amaze me. I spent 2 hrs last night explaining to my mom (baptized but never confirmed pre-Vatican II who went Baptist and became director of childrens’ ed at the church) what Catholics believe. She loves it but she just never would convert, I don’t think. She thinks of her (and my childhood) church as just a ridiculous fashion show. Of course, I think if my grandfather would have put his foot down w/ my grandmother, I wouldn’t have to be going thru RCIA right now. But, I think he didn’t b/c as a 1st gen American, he didn’t mind seeing his daughter grow up more mainstream protestant.

Well, I 've never considered conversion ( to Catholicism ), I “did it” the other way round : there were no Protestants where I was, so I moved to another region to find other Protestants …

 

[Mickey]

Gottle of Geer:

without grace, the use of reason in evangelisation or apologetics is as valuable as a pile of vomit.

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_20_7.gif

 

[kparlet]

tom4JC:

I was Catholic for 34 years, went to Catholic school, attended services on Easter and Christmas, had my firstborn baptized, and later watched her receive first communion.

All those years in the church and I never heard that Jesus died for Everything I’d ever done that was wrong. I never knew he was real. I never knew he wanted me to know him in a personal way. I never knew that he could really speak to me from where he is. I never knew Jesus.

All that has changed. Now that I DO know those things and now that I do know Him ( I know Him only enough to know that I want to know more.) There is no reason for me to go back to a Catholic church. They would not teach me His ways, his thoughts, his heart.

I need that in my life. I need Jesus Christ.

Sadly, I think a lot of former Catholics feel the same way. But, I would ask that you not give up on Peter because of Judas!

 

[St.Eric]

tom4JC:

I was Catholic for 34 years, went to Catholic school, attended services on Easter and Christmas, had my firstborn baptized, and later watched her receive first communion.

All those years in the church and I never heard that Jesus died for Everything I’d ever done that was wrong. I never knew he was real. I never knew he wanted me to know him in a personal way. I never knew that he could really speak to me from where he is. I never knew Jesus.

All that has changed. Now that I DO know those things and now that I do know Him ( I know Him only enough to know that I want to know more.) There is no reason for me to go back to a Catholic church. They would not teach me His ways, his thoughts, his heart.

I need that in my life. I need Jesus Christ.

I am highly suspect of this post. there is no way one could be a Catholic for any length of time and not know that Jesus died for our sins and that we have a relationship with him. We say the Nicene creed every Mass and receive him on our tongue and into our bodies- how can you get more personal than that. The Catholic Church absolutley teaches the ways of Christ.

 

[Doreen]

St.Eric:

I am highly suspect of this post. there is no way one could be a Catholic for any length of time and not know that Jesus died for our sins and that we have a relationship with him. We say the Nicene creed every Mass and receive him on our tongue and into our bodies- how can you get more personal than that. The Catholic Church absolutley teaches the ways of Christ.

I will testify that Tom4JC is not alone in his experience (or LACK thereof) in the Catholic Church.

My time in the church = 28 years.
My relationship with Christ at that point = 0

That is:

I never heard that Jesus died for Everything I’d ever done that was wrong.

I never knew he was real.

I never knew he wanted me to know him in a personal way.

I never knew that he could really speak to me from where he is.

I never knew Jesus.

I never knew I could conquer sin by having His Spirit alive and active in my life.

Sad state of affairs for the “Church of Christ”…

 

[St.Eric]

Doreen:

I will testify that Tom4JC is not alone in his experience (or LACK thereof) in the Catholic Church.

My time in the church = 28 years.
My relationship with Christ at that point = 0

That is:

I never knew I could conquer sin by having His Spirit alive and active in my life.

Sad state of affairs for the “Church of Christ”…

I admit, I am completely dumbfounded by this.
By the way, you can’t conquer sin, that was what Christ died for.

 

[DARichards]

Doreen:

I will testify that Tom4JC is not alone in his experience (or LACK thereof) in the Catholic Church.

My time in the church = 28 years.
My relationship with Christ at that point = 0

That is:

I never knew I could conquer sin by having His Spirit alive and active in my life.

Sad state of affairs for the “Church of Christ”…

Doreen,

My question to you would be, what did you believe that the Catholic Church taught in regard to not only Salvation, but the relationship of Christ and man.

I am not saying that there are not Catholic Churches out there that don’t do a good job of catechising the Church, I would like to know though, what you were taught??

What about the contents of this Eucharistic Prayer??

FIRST EUCHARISTIC PRAYER

The Lord be with you or The Lord is here.
All and also with you. His Spirit is with us.

Lift up your hearts.

All We lift them to the Lord.

Let us give thanks to the Lord our God.

All It is right to give him thanks and praise.

It is indeed right,
it is our duty and our joy,
at all times and in all places
to give you thanks and praise,
holy Father, heavenly King,
almighty and eternal God,
through Jesus Christ your only Son our Lord.
For he is your living Word;
through him you have created all things from the beginning,
and formed us in your own image.

Through him you have freed us from the slavery of sin,
giving him to be born as man and to die upon the cross;
you raised him from the dead
and exalted him to your right hand on high.

Through him you have sent upon us
your holy and life-giving Spirit,
and made us a people for your own possession.

Therefore with angels and archangels,
and with all the company of heaven,
we proclaim your great and glorious name,
for ever praising you and saying:

All Holy, holy, holy Lord,
God of power and might.
Heaven and earth are full of your glory.
Hosanna in the highest.

Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.
Hosanna in the highest.

Accept our praises, heavenly Father,
through your Son our Saviour Jesus Christ;
and as we follow his example and obey his command,
grant that by the power of your Holy Spirit
these gifts of bread and wine
may be to us his body and blood;
Who in the same night that he was betrayed,
took bread and gave you thanks;
he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying,
Take, eat; this is my body which is given for you;
do this in remembrance of me.
In the same way, after supper
he took the cup and gave you thanks;
he gave it to them, saying,
Drink this, all of you;
this is my blood of the new covenant,
which is shed for you and for many for the forgiveness of sins,
Do this as often as you drink it,
in remembrance of me.

All Christ has died:
Christ is risen:
Christ will come again.

Therefore, heavenly Father,
we remember his offering of himself
made once for all upon the cross,
and proclaim his mighty resurrection and glorious ascension.
As we look for his coming in glory,
we celebrate with this bread and this cup
his one perfect sacrifice.
Accept through him, our great high priest,
this our sacrifice of thanks and praise;
and as we eat and drink these holy gifts
in the presence of your divine majesty,
renew us by your Spirit,
inspire us with your love,
and unite us in the body of your Son,
Jesus Christ our Lord.

Through him, and with him, and in him,
by the power of the Holy Spirit,
with all who stand before you in earth and heaven,
we worship you, Father almighty,
in songs of everlasting praise:

All Blessing and honour and glory and power
be yours for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[sparks]

Paris Blues:

And I want a honest answer too! I don’t want none of the “oh, it’s a freedom of religon!”…yada yada yada…

For Protestants who are NOT anti-Catholic and yet have nothing against the Church, why do you stay Protestant than???

What if a person is not anti-Catholic, has nothing against the Catholic church, but also has nothing against Mormonism (or JW, Islam, etc). What happens then? Coin toss?

I am not said person by the way. Just a hypothetical.