Top 10 reasons women should dress modestly

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Edward_H said:
No I compared people who struggle with their limitations and weaknesses. I’ve laid this out in a number of ways above.

We are all sinners, we all have limits and weaknesses, we all need to grow in holiness, no one is a saint until their soul is in heaven. And we all need to help each other struggle.

None of this is mollycoddling.
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You are indeed mollycoddling if you make a comparison as outrageous as this:
Edward_H said:
**Back in the day…you’d have the same opinion about lepers.

Don’t lie to yourself that you’d be any better than the people who treated them like "perverts and “scum”**
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I only speak the truth when I say I only give kindness to people who are victims of circumstances.

To thieves, perverts, and bandits however, I offer a different sort of kindness. Unlike you, I have the sane capacity to distinguish between a victim and a criminal.
Edward_H said:
**If you don’t think the lepers have a lesson for you in your understanding of your responsibility as a Christian, I hope you figure it out. **
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Wow, first you compare perverts with accident victims and grieving relatives but now lepers? Surely you’re not really out to prove me are you?

Let’s have another lesson in logic shall we?

What do lepers, accident victims, and grieving relatives have in common?

They had no control over their circumstances. Their tragedies are outside the realm of the I.

You know what none of them have in common with perverts?

That something is a choice.
 
If a man looks at a woman lustily is it a sin? I think so. Does he need to work on it. You bet. Am I ‘judging’ him, nope…that’s God’s call. If he were my friend, would I work to help him, you bet. Have I actually done this, you bet. Has it helped? Sometimes.

If a woman deliberately (she admits it is her intention) dresses provocatively is it a sin?

If she dresses this way because she seeks attention, is it a sin?

Have the women here ever known or suspected any woman, maybe their friends, who have done these things?

What is the sin? Is it pride in a good body, is it vanity? Does it give comfort to them?

Do these women who’ve witnessed such acts, or who know such women, feel any Christian responsibility to help their friends?
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
You are indeed mollycoddling if you make a comparison as outrageous as this:

I only speak the truth when I say I only give kindness to people who are victims of circumstances.

To thieves, perverts, and bandits however, I offer a different sort of kindness. Unlike you, I have the sane capacity to distinguish between a victim and a criminal.

Wow, first you compare perverts with accident victims and grieving relatives but now lepers? Surely you’re not really out to prove me are you?

Let’s have another lesson in logic shall we?

What do lepers, accident victims, and grieving relatives have in common?

They had no control over their circumstances. Their tragedies are outside the realm of the I.

You know what none of them have in common with perverts?

That something is a choice.
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Get your quotes right, I didn’t say that.
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
You are indeed mollycoddling if you make a comparison as outrageous as this:

I only speak the truth when I say I only give kindness to people who are victims of circumstances.

To thieves, perverts, and bandits however, I offer a different sort of kindness. Unlike you, I have the sane capacity to distinguish between a victim and a criminal.

Wow, first you compare perverts with accident victims and grieving relatives but now lepers? Surely you’re not really out to prove me are you?

Let’s have another lesson in logic shall we?

What do lepers, accident victims, and grieving relatives have in common?

They had no control over their circumstances. Their tragedies are outside the realm of the I.

You know what none of them have in common with perverts?

That something is a choice.
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We are all sinners; we need to pursue holiness = outrageous?

Amazing.

And read the Gospel passages about the lepers. You really can’t connect the dots.
 
Alexander_Smith said:
Modesty of appearance naturally follows modesty of character in my experience.
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That doesn’t mean the form of modesty is unchangeable. Furthermore, from my experience, I’ve found more immodesty in actions and words than in people’s clothes.
 
Edward_H said:
Oh so now, you read the Pope’s mind. CAF is so cool, full of people with gifts.
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No, what makes you think I read the pope’s mind?

A + B = C

A. The pope speaks of partial nudity being ok in some situations, and specifically mentions that wearing “bathing costumes” at a “bathing place” is not at all immoral.

B. Bikinis are by far the most popular forms of “bathing costumes.”

C. Therefore, wearing a bikini to the beach is not immoral

A + B = C

-no mind reading there, just basic logic
YOU on the other hand, are the one who appears to read the popes mind, by claiming, "oh well, he didn’t see the need in saying “bathing costumes with the exception of bikinis bc he figured the answer was obvious.”

I then say, “since when has the pope not spoken about something that is obvious? he spoke against premarital sex a lot, and that’s pretty obvious.”
So, do you understand now where I am coming from? How would you go about explaining all that?

By the way, you still haven’t answered my question, neither has Spirit:

Is there some sort of church doctrine that deems bikinis as immodest and sinful?
 
Debora123 said:
No, what makes you think I read the pope’s mind?

A + B = C

A. The pope speaks of partial nudity being ok in some situations, and specifically mentions that wearing “bathing costumes” at a “bathing place” is not at all immoral.

B. Bikinis are by far the most popular forms of “bathing costumes.”

C. Therefore, wearing a bikini to the beach is not immoral

A + B = C

-no mind reading there, just basic logic
YOU on the other hand, are the one who appears to read the popes mind, by claiming, "oh well, he didn’t see the need in saying “bathing costumes with the exception of bikinis bc he figured the answer was obvious.”

I then say, “since when has the pope not spoken about something that is obvious? he spoke against premarital sex a lot, and that’s pretty obvious.”
So, do you understand now where I am coming from? How would you go about explaining all that?
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Undistributed middle term.

All martians are green
all trees are green
therefore all martians are trees
 
Edward_H said:
Undistributed middle term.
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And what do you mean by that, Edward.

How is that a refute to my argument?

By the way, you still haven’t answered my question, neither has Spirit:

Is there some sort of church doctrine that deems bikinis as immodest and sinful?
 
Debora123 said:
And what do you mean by that, Edward.

How is that a refute to my argument?

By the way, you still haven’t answered my question, neither has Spirit:

Is there some sort of church doctrine that deems bikinis as immodest and sinful?
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Is there a church doctrine that tells us we ought to keep our yard clean and use mouthwash?
 
Edward_H said:
Undistributed middle term.

All martians are green
all trees are green
therefore all martians are trees
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Ok, you’re gonna have to break this down a little bit for me here bc you are being awfly vague and it’s coming off as you simply not wanting to admit you’re wrong. Which is perfectly fine with me, but this is just too much fun.

So, explain this to me:

You say martians are green… and what are the martians and the green an analogy of in regards to my logic?
And now you say all trees are green… what are the trees an analogy of in regards to my logic?
Therefore all martians are trees… what is this supposed to mean in regards to my logic, and how does my logic come to this same conclusion as your analogies?

Instead of using analogies, why don’t you use what we are actually talking about to prove to me that A + B does not = C? 🙂
 
Debora123 said:
And what do you mean by that, Edward.

How is that a refute to my argument?

By the way, you still haven’t answered my question, neither has Spirit:

Is there some sort of church doctrine that deems bikinis as immodest and sinful?
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I think you misunderstand what doctrine is.
 
Edward_H said:
If she dresses this way because she seeks attention, is it a sin?
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A better question would be on what basis must you assume that she’s dressing for attention in the first place?

The problem is you immediately assume that she admits this. This is not realistic. A realistic scenario does not allow you to go up and ask a girl, “Hey there, is the way you dress for the sake of getting attention?”

Since you like to preach tact, you’d realize that isn’t the best way to gain information.
However, neither is judging by appearances. The solution? Stop staring. There’s nothing for you to get here. Find something better for your eyes to do. It’s that simple.
Edward_H said:
We are all sinners; we need to pursue holiness = outrageous?

Amazing.

And read the Gospel passages about the lepers.
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You know following your logic, Jesus should have treated the Pharisees and the money changers in the temple the same way he treated lepers.
Edward_H said:
You really can’t connect the dots.
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holds up mirror
 
Edward_H said:
Undistributed middle term.

All martians are green
all trees are green
therefore all martians are trees
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You’re comparing her argument with a non-sequitur?
You might as well as compare mopeds to monster trucks.

Then again, making false comparisons is your realm of expertise so I guess nobody should expect much.
 
Debora123 said:
Ok, you’re gonna have to break this down a little bit for me here bc you are being awfly vague and it’s coming off as you simply not wanting to admit you’re wrong. Which is perfectly fine with me, but this is just too much fun.

So, explain this to me:

You say martians are green… and what are the martians and the green an analogy of in regards to my logic?
And now you say all trees are green… what are the trees an analogy of in regards to my logic?
Therefore all martians are trees… what is this supposed to mean in regards to my logic, and how does my logic come to this same conclusion as your analogies?

Instead of using analogies, why don’t you use what we are actually talking about to prove to me that A + B does not = C? 🙂
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I am sorry. Getting punchy and tired. East coaster. Time for the rack.

Technically your syllogism isn’t probably an error of the undistributed middle term.

But something is wrong with it.

The pope mentioned “bathing costumes” (we’re not sure what language he wrote his letter in originally).

We all probably did a double take when we first saw that term “bathing costumes”. If we googled it, we’d probably only get the Pope’s citation!!

So, to claim in “B” that bikini is the most popular term…sort of goes against “a”.

if it is the most popular form of “bathing costume”…why didn’t the Pope use it. Why would he deliberately NOT use it.

So A and B and C are not really forced, from a logical point of view. They sort of get stopped between A and B.
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
A better question would be on what basis must you assume that she’s dressing for attention in the first place?
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I didn’t ask you for a better question. I wrote the question and specifically had in the question the following phrase “she admits it is her intention”

And now you want to re-write my question and side step my point.
 
Edward_H said:
So, to claim in “B” that bikini is the most popular term…sort of goes against “a”.

if it is the most popular form of “bathing costume”…why didn’t the Pope use it. Why would he deliberately NOT use it.
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Because “bathing costume” is a more general statement that covers all sorts of swimwear, bikinis included.

It’s the same way that if he were to be making a general statement about hats, he would say “hat” and not fedoras or beanies or sombreros.
 
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