Transgender friends

[eann]

If anyone’s interested in further reading on the subject of gender pronouns check out Jordan B. Peterson. He is a Canadian professor (U of T) and clinical psychologist. He got attention for criticizing bill c-16:
“The bill adds gender expression and gender identity as protected grounds to the Canadian Human Rights Act, and also to the Criminal Code provisions dealing with hate propaganda, incitement to genocide, and aggravating factors in sentencing.”

So basically you must use the pronouns or you could be legally prosecuted.

I understand putting into law what you cannot say…but I do not think it’s right to tell people what they must say.

 

[straykat]

This seems like it’d either make me sin by caving in and promoting this world’s sense of “right” (i.e. pretending mental illness doesn’t exist). Or not promoting it, being upfront, and possibly being uncharitable. Best to just stay away.

Then again, I don’t really have much of a social life anyways. So take my words with a grain of salt.

 

[BlueMaxx]

If anyone’s interested in further reading on the subject of gender pronouns check out Jordan B. Peterson. He is a Canadian professor (U of T) and clinical psychologist. He got attention for criticizing bill c-16:
“The bill adds gender expression and gender identity as protected grounds to the Canadian Human Rights Act, and also to the Criminal Code provisions dealing with hate propaganda, incitement to genocide, and aggravating factors in sentencing.”

So basically you must use the pronouns or you could be legally prosecuted.

I understand putting into law what you cannot say…but I do not think it’s right to tell people what they must say.

I could not agree more…Ministry of Truth comes to mind…

 

[eann]

Scary stuff.

 

[KyPerson]

No. He’s a male. He may identify as a woman, but he is biologically a male.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Right. Which makes them a transwoman or transgender woman. You said transgender man.

 

[Monica83]

I do not have transgender friends, but trans people are everywhere even at the park with their children. I have a 3.5 year old and a 10 month old. I smile and talk to the trans person when necessary around my children but do not use pronouns as it might confuse my child and I don’t want to talk about gender dyphoria at such a young age. It’s obvious to me many times(and probably obvious to my children) that these people were born a certain sex despite their attempts to change their characteristics.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I need to pay more attention because I never see any that I don’t know personally.

 

[Monica83]

There are many transgender who have facial hair but still breasts for instance. Or take testosterone to deepen their voice, but it’s not enough to not be able to tell that they are female.

 

[Jump4Joy]

I think address them by how they choose and want to be addressed.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

to

I know. I do see them on social media, just not out and about.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Since when do “friends” just blindly support each other?

 

[Thorolfr]

…we are what we are. God did not make a mistake…I think that gets lost a lot in these conversations.

That’s what a lot of gay people think, “We’re gay and that’s the way God made us and intended us to be and God did not make a mistake.”

 

[Thorolfr]

Let’s not forget that for many transgender people, the issue is not just one of ideology and being right. Many of them are hurting and experiencing a lot of pain due to their dysphoria.

They are hurting on the inside, and surgery for many of them improves their quality of life. As an NBC article from yesterday says:

A team at University Hospital in Essen, Germany, followed 158 transgender women patients for a median of more than six years after their surgery. They found approximately 75 percent of patients showed improved quality of life after their procedure. The results were unveiled last month at the annual European Association of Urology Conference in Copenhagen.

“It’s very important that we have good data on quality of life (QOL) in transgender people,” Dr. Jochen Hess, the study’s lead author, told NBC News. “They generally suffer from a worse QOL than non-transgender population, with higher rates of stress and mental illness, so it’s good that surgery can change this, but also that we can now show that it has a positive effect.”

The study’s subjects were transgender women aged 18 years or older, with a mean age of 50, who had undergone gender-affirming surgery at the University Clinic in Essen between 1995 and 2015.

Participants were each sent a set of questionnaires through the mail that sought to measure their quality of life following surgery. One of the questionnaires — the Essen Transgender Quality of Life Inventory — was specifically developed by the Essen team for this purpose. Dr. Hess said the new questionnaire is “the first specific validated tool for measuring [quality of life] in transgender patients.”

The newly developed tool asks a total of 30 questions, with topics including body image, discrimination, physical health and family acceptance. Among the survey’s findings was that three women in four were able to have orgasms after reassignment surgery.

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc...ntly-improves-quality-life-study-says-n862361

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I know a lot of transgender adults, and if someone were to make a big deal out of calling them something different from what they called themselves, or otherwise tell them that there was a moral issue with their transgenderism, from a practical standpoint that would be the end of the friendship.

The transgender folks I have met over the last couple decades are not interested in having friends who do not support them. They are adults and have totally made up their minds about their own identity, so this is not a case of impressionable 15-year-olds trying something out and then deciding it’s not for them. Many of these trans adults are already dealing with a lack of support on this issue from their blood family and others they have to encounter such as co-workers. They aren’t going to voluntarily keep any “friend” around who is going to add to their pile of problems by continuing to call them “Johnny” and insist they are still male, when in their own minds they think of themselves as “Janie”, a female.

So, if someone feels that from a moral standpoint, they can’t in good conscience call the former Johnny by her new name of Janie, then in my experience, it would be better to just tell Johnny/ Janie that and step off the friend bus. If you still wanted to do something friendly for the person, you could pray for them. If Johnny/ Janie somehow still wanted to have you for a friend, knowing your opinion, then that would be their choice to make; in reality like I said I’ve never seen a trans adult hold onto a friend who didn’t support them, but I suppose it could happen. I think it’s important to be honest and straight-up with the person about your feelings and not have it come out in some kind of passive-aggressive way via use of “he” or “she” or whatever.

Edited to add, I’m presuming the people on this thread who say they get around this by avoiding the use of pronouns altogether are dealing with trans people in casual social situations or perhaps at work. I can’t imagine having an actual friend who I had to constantly watch my language around and hide my true feelings about what they were doing. The friend would catch on pretty quickly that I had a problem with them and again, that would likely be the end of the friendship. In the case of trans people, their radar is often tuned really high to detect any negative reaction to their status, so if someone is skating around the use of names or pronouns, they can tell.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I can’t imagine having an actual friend who I had to constantly watch my language around and hide my true feelings about what they were doing.

Welcome to the brave, new progressive world.

This is is what happens when you let other people control what comes out of your mouth.

And since we are using anecdotal evidence, I know of a trans person who doesn’t care what you call him.

I use his preferred name just to be respectful. I’m not sure if that’s a big moral problem or not. I tend not to think so because the RCC hasn’t lambasted it, but It could be since in our hypersensitive society people are scandalized by the tiniest thing.

 

[BlueMaxx]

BlueMaxx:

…we are what we are. God did not make a mistake…I think that gets lost a lot in these conversations.

That’s what a lot of gay people think, “We’re gay and that’s the way God made us and intended us to be and God did not make a mistake.”

I meant as in male or female…God does not cause us to sin…

 

[BlueMaxx]

Yet the suicide rate is abnormally high for these folks…that is very sad…a lot of tortured souls out there.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

And since we are using anecdotal evidence, I know of a trans person who doesn’t care what you call him.

He must be very secure in himself. It would be nice if everyone was, but many aren’t.

I use his preferred name just to be respectful. I’m not sure if that’s a big moral problem or not.

I’m a “what’s in a name?” type of person. If a person wants to be called Joe, or Susan, or Bunny Rabbit, I’m happy to oblige, and like you, I think it’s respectful to go with their preferences, within reason. If someone wanted to be called something crazy like Hitler or Jesus Our Savior or if they were changing their preferred name every week, I’d tell them to knock it off.

I also don’t have a huge moral problem with transgender people in general; to the extent there may be a moral issue, it’s their moral issue to address for their own personal life, not my moral issue to preach to them about, since I’m not trans and never had any such inclination. I’m just here to behave in a loving and Christlike manner to them, and to me that includes respecting their dignity as a person by calling them by the name they choose to use.

 

[Augustinian]

Now I don’t have any transgender friends

Worry about it when you do. Transgendered individuals are pretty rare birds- and unless you seek them out, its unlikely you’ll even meet any much less become friends with them.