Transgender teen who died of an apparent suicide: ‘Fix society. Please.’

[BrassAnkles]

We Catholics should give all love, hope and joy as we spread the Good News. Somewhere Christians have lost the zeal to give the message. It is a lot easier to condemn or ignore people than to love them.

With all due respect I don’t see anyone condemning confused youths. Simply pointing out that people are wrong is not condemnation.

 

[gilliam]

With all due respect I don’t see anyone condemning confused youths. Simply pointing out that people are wrong is not condemnation.

Read the article. I don’t have all the facts. But somehow I think if he went to Pope Francis instead of the ‘Christian therapists’ who turned the blame on the kid, there would have been a better outcome. At least I would hope so. The lesson I am taking from this is that we need to share the joy of the Good News as our Holy Father does and as Christ did and not act like Calvinists. The Catholic approach should lead to a better outcome and eventually along the path to the Father. Conversion takes an inner decision from each of us. That takes time and a lot of gentle prodding.

Something when terribly wrong with the counseling he received. Especially since he said, “I only got more Christians telling me that I was selfish and wrong.” You don’t cure someone from depression that way. Frankly, you usually don’t lead someone to God that way either.

 

[SWolf]

We Catholics should give all love, hope and joy as we spread the Good News. Somewhere Christians have lost the zeal to give the message. It is a lot easier to condemn or ignore people than to love them.

I don’t see anyone condemning the kid. Most are saying he was confused.

If I declared I wanted to be referred to as a Tri-gendered Wonderfox from the Forest Planet. I would hope people would still love and respect me. I would also hope they didn’t feed my delusion.

 

[BrassAnkles]

Whenever these things happen, it makes me so confused and angry, because I’m never quite sure how to react. Aside from the obvious: mourning for yet another life lost to suicide, praying for their soul and for the well-being of their families.

But should I be taking this as a story about a blameless individual oppressed by the standards of society who is driven to suicide and the fault is on those who held those standards over her? That’s obviously what the media and popular opinion jumps to… So then does the fact that someone suffered greatly as a result of this standard mean that the standard should not exist? That’s not exactly a logical leap of thought, but it’s definitely tempting in these scenarios. Obviously other people come to that conclusion. I often see (because I browse Tumblr) people assert that a gender binary doesn’t or shouldn’t exist. I mean, I can’t deny that the way gender is experienced by many people is a very complicated business, (according to sites like itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2011/11/breaking-through-the-binary-gender-explained-using-continuums/ ) so how am I supposed to respond to this?

Then again I refuse to think about this story as about a disturbed teen who resented his parents not giving him what he wanted and killed himself as a final act of defiance… I kind of get that vibe from some of the posts on transgender topics here on CAF. It’s cold, not at all helpful, and only gives credence to the attitude in the previous paragraph. I think it’s safe to say the correct approach is more nuanced than either of these.

The Church’s vague stance on this issue doesn’t help either. Even if we agree that it’s not right to perform surgical or hormonal “mutilation” on a person, that doesn’t give us an answer about what to do when someone wants to present as the opposite sex, with things like style of hair and dress and especially pronoun usage. Are all of these things fine as long as the body isn’t damaged? And if so, is it fine only as a bandaid for the identity disorder or as something to be positively affirmed?

Then on top of all of that, there’s the issue of Leelah’s parents. We’ll never know how exactly they handled the issue, other than attempting conversion therapy - which never seems to be a good move - but she definitely wasn’t feeling love from them. But was that because they were actually resentful of her? Or did they try their very best but she wouldn’t take anything except “yes and I’ll pay for your transition” as a sign of love? What does this mean if someday I have kids and one of them comes to me with this issue? If I have to defend a Church teaching to them, might I also have to bury my child? What if a good friend comes out to me as trans? The first words that come out of my mouth can have a profound impact on them…

Pretending to be a women was prohibited in the Old Testament. The Catholic Church cannot and will not change God’s will.

As far as dealing with a situation like this, the best approach is not to waver from God’s Word. Unfortunately, and I regret having to point this out, many Christians are really confused about what it means to recognize the sin. What I mean is parents think that if their child does something of this nature that they are required to cut them off. Also, vanity comes into play as well, because a parent is often times embarrassed and acts out their own lack of self control over their children. Also too, often after the guilt of acting this way has overwhelmed the parent they can capitulate completely and reject God’s Word, actually thinking they are doing the right thing.

Needless to say this is not the correct Christian response. The correct Christian response as a parent is to not redefine God’s Word because we are confused about judging, but rather stay firm in the faith. this does not mean cutting off one’s child, but merely pointing out what God wants for them.

In fact one of my best friends has a son who identifies as transgender and even had an operation. We talked extensively and I told my friend to be firm in his faith but let his son know he will always be there for him and pray for him until the end of time. My friend never “shut the door” on the contrary. However, his son has shut the door at times on his father because he wants to force him to accept his liefstyle. I explained this is dangerous for his son’s salvation and to stay firm but keep the door open.

Conspicuously, as I have talked with my friends son, he stated that he was tired of pretending of being a women and the surgery would fix that so he could have a “normal” relationship. I pointed out the obvious that no man would ever marry him because they would find out he was a man in a women’s body and therefore the man would be a homosexual so they would be back to “pretending” so there would be no advantage. The poor boy who killed himself had this notion as well. What are we doing in this society to help this kids be realistic? Mostly nothing because the atheists have taken over sex in our country and it has been relegated to something dirty and as such few Christians want to discuss it. We are truly lost as a nation.

 

[BrassAnkles]

Read the article. I don’t have all the facts. But somehow I think if he went to Pope Francis instead of the ‘Christian therapists’ who turned the blame on the kid, there would have been a better outcome. At least I would hope so. The lesson I am taking from this is that we need to share the joy of the Good News as our Holy Father does and as Christ did and not act like Calvinists. The Catholic approach should lead to a better outcome and eventually along the path to the Father. Conversion takes an inner decision from each of us. That takes time and a lot of gentle prodding.

Something when terribly wrong with the counseling he received. Especially since he said, “I only got more Christians telling me that I was selfish and wrong.” You don’t cure someone from depression that way. Frankly, you usually don’t lead someone to God that way either.

No one should have blamed the kid. They should just tell him his decision is flawed for many reason, not the least of which many kids go through crisis and change later. Furthermore, what about the fact that changing one’s body and pretending to be a women would never change the fact that his husband would know he was a man?

As far as Pope Francis would say, he wouldn’t deviate from the Catechism and would tel this child that this isn’t what God wants for him but the door always remains open. This is the true Christian response, in addition to prayer, fasting and willingness to suffer for lost souls.

 

[meltzerboy]

Transgender people commit suicide at much higher rates than the general population. But this is not the fault of “society”. This idea that self-mutilation can achieve what therapy cannot is crazy. Psychiatrists should stop pretending that one’s desire to become the other sex is not a disorder. It is.

And most psychiatrists would agree with you, in a sense. It is called gender dysphoria (formerly known as gender identity disorder). That doesn’t mean it cannot be treated. However, you seem to believe that the desire to be treated by means of sex reassignment surgery is itself a disorder which should be treated. And, contrary to what you maintain, the ridicule of transgender people by society and family, including some in the gay culture, is a primary cause of suicide in this population.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Read the article. I don’t have all the facts. But somehow I think if he went to Pope Francis instead of the ‘Christian therapists’ who turned the blame on the kid, there would have been a better outcome. At least I would hope so. The lesson I am taking from this is that we need to share the joy of the Good News as our Holy Father does and as Christ did and not act like Calvinists. The Catholic approach should lead to a better outcome and eventually along the path to the Father. Conversion takes an inner decision from each of us. That takes time and a lot of gentle prodding.

Something when terribly wrong with the counseling he received. Especially since he said, “I only got more Christians telling me that I was selfish and wrong.” You don’t cure someone from depression that way. Frankly, you usually don’t lead someone to God that way either.

While I agree with this to an extent, keep in mind that this is also the kid’s impressions of what happened, and might not necessarily reflect the reality of what occurred. I’m not saying it’s not, but there’s a common trend among many homosexuals I know to… play the victim. There have been multiple occasions when the impression they took away from an interaction is vastly different from the impression I got from it, and in most cases, they perceived an insult where I perceived none.

Again, not saying he didn’t got through some bad stuff, but I don’t think it’s appropriate to base your opinions of what happened on a depressed child’s suicide note.

Praying for him.

 

[meltzerboy]

While I agree with this to an extent, keep in mind that this is also the kid’s impressions of what happened, and might not necessarily reflect the reality of what occurred. I’m not saying it’s not, but there’s a common trend among many homosexuals I know to… play the victim. There have been multiple occasions when the impression they took away from an interaction is vastly different from the impression I got from it, and in most cases, they perceived an insult where I perceived none.

Again, not saying he didn’t got through some bad stuff, but I don’t think it’s appropriate to base your opinions of what happened on a depressed child’s suicide note.

Praying for him.

Transgender people may be either homosexual or heterosexual. (The same is true for cross-dressers, formerly known as transvestites.) Gender dysphoria is NOT the same as homosexuality or cross-dressing.

 

[gilliam]

While I agree with this to an extent, keep in mind that this is also the kid’s impressions of what happened, and might not necessarily reflect the reality of what occurred. I’m not saying it’s not, but there’s a common trend among many homosexuals I know to… play the victim. There have been multiple occasions when the impression they took away from an interaction is vastly different from the impression I got from it, and in most cases, they perceived an insult where I perceived none.

Again, not saying he didn’t got through some bad stuff, but I don’t think it’s appropriate to base your opinions of what happened on a depressed child’s suicide note.

Praying for him.

His is the only impression that really counts in the long run. The ‘Christian counseling’ didn’t work. He killed himself. That speaks volumes.

He is in God’s hands now (which are probably a lot gentler than a lot of ours.)

 

[SMGS127]

The Church’s vague stance on this issue doesn’t help either. Even if we agree that it’s not right to perform surgical or hormonal “mutilation” on a person, that doesn’t give us an answer about what to do when someone wants to present as the opposite sex, with things like style of hair and dress and especially pronoun usage. Are all of these things fine as long as the body isn’t damaged? And if so, is it fine only as a bandaid for the identity disorder or as something to be positively affirmed?

Well, the Church actually allows for the surgery in cases where it is required for the mental wellbeing of the individual. And while She affirms that people cannot change their gender, the Church does not mandate that our gender is infallibly linked to our birth genitalia.

So this is not a clear-cut issue whatsoever, unlike what uber-conservatives try to present it as in the Church. Either way, child abuse (aka conversion therapy) should never be legalized by a state for any minor. The parents and “counselors” involved in this child’s life are ultimately at least partially responsible for her death. You cannot put a child through continuous abuse and expect them to be fine.

Again, we as a society need to change.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Transgender people may be either homosexual or heterosexual. (The same is true for cross-dressers, formerly known as transvestites.) Gender dysphoria is NOT the same as homosexuality or cross-dressing.

That doesn’t mean the culture surrounding it is not subject to the same pitfalls.

 

[SWolf]

His is the only impression that really counts in the long run. The ‘Christian counseling’ didn’t work. He killed himself. That speaks volumes.

He is in God’s hands now (which are probably a lot gentler than a lot of ours.)

No. The truth of the situation is the only one that counts. If he said, “give me the surgery or I will kill myself”, are we required to oblige? Would the parents be wrong in refusing and trying therapy?

 

[Thorolfr]

The teenage suicide rate has increased and homosexuals have the highest incidence. I am pretty sure that I have posted this.

In our modern world homosexuality is celebrated, therefore, glossing over Rome’s and Greece’s embrace of homosexuality is to be expected. Still, societies that embrace homosexuality embrace the destruction of family and thus the birth rate drops.

How exactly did you figure that out:

The National Action Alliance for Suicide Prevention notes there are no national data (for the U.S.) regarding suicidal ideation or suicide rates among the LGBT population as a whole or in part, for LGBT youth or LGBT seniors, for example.[16] In part because there is no agreed percentage of the national population that is LGBTQ, or even identifies as LGBTQ, also death certificates do not include sexuality information.[9] A 1986 study noted that previous large scale studies of completed suicides did not “consider sexual orientation in their data analyses.”[17]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_among_LGBT_youth

 

[ucfengr]

Well, the Church actually allows for the surgery in cases where it is required for the mental wellbeing of the individual. And while She affirms that people cannot change their gender, the Church does not mandate that our gender is infallibly linked to our birth genitalia.

So this is not a clear-cut issue whatsoever, unlike what uber-conservatives try to present it as in the Church. Either way, child abuse (aka conversion therapy) should never be legalized by a state for any minor. The parents and “counselors” involved in this child’s life are ultimately at least partially responsible for her death. You cannot put a child through continuous abuse and expect them to be fine.

Again, we as a society need to change.

If an individual, even a minor child as in this case, decided that he identified as a paraplegic, should the Church allow for surgery to make said child a paraplegic if it is required for the person’s mental well being? If the child’s parents refused to consent and the child committed suicide, would they also be “at least partially responsible” for his death?

 

[Thorolfr]

Pretending to be a women was prohibited in the Old Testament. The Catholic Church cannot and will not change God’s will.

Why do you keep bringing up things that were prohibited or required in the Old Testament. What about these other prohibitions?

Leviticus 19:19: “You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your animals breed with a different kind; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed; nor shall you put on a garment made of two different materials.”

Leviticus 19:27: “You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard.”

Leviticus 20: 9: “All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them.”

Or what about this requirement:

Duteronomy 22: 8: “When you build a new house, you shall make a parapet for your roof; otherwise you might have bloodguilt on your house, if anyone should fall from it.”

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Well, the Church actually allows for the surgery in cases where it is required for the mental wellbeing of the individual. And while She affirms that people cannot change their gender, the Church does not mandate that our gender is infallibly linked to our birth genitalia.

So this is not a clear-cut issue whatsoever, unlike what uber-conservatives try to present it as in the Church. Either way, child abuse (aka conversion therapy) should never be legalized by a state for any minor. The parents and “counselors” involved in this child’s life are ultimately at least partially responsible for her death. You cannot put a child through continuous abuse and expect them to be fine.

Again, we as a society need to change.

I didn’t read anything about abuse or conversion therapy in the article linked in the OP.

 

[Thorolfr]

If an individual, even a minor child as in this case, decided that he identified as a paraplegic, should the Church allow for surgery to make said child a paraplegic if it is required for the person’s mental well being? If the child’s parents refused to consent and the child committed suicide, would they also be “at least partially responsible” for his death?

I’ve never heard of anyone who “decided that he identified as a paraplegic” and wanted his limbs to be surgically removed. Why jump to making ridiculous comparisons?

 

[SWolf]

If an individual, even a minor child as in this case, decided that he identified as a paraplegic, should the Church allow for surgery to make said child a paraplegic if it is required for the person’s mental well being? If the child’s parents refused to consent and the child committed suicide, would they also be “at least partially responsible” for his death?

Before anyone believes this is a ridiculous hypothetical:

foxnews.com/story/2009/05/20/determined-to-amputate-one-man-struggle-with-body-integrity-identity-disorder/

 

[ucfengr]

I’ve never heard of anyone who “decided that he identified as a paraplegic” and wanted his limbs to be surgically removed. Why jump to making ridiculous comparisons?

It’s called “Body Integrity Identity Disorder”. It is related to xenomelia, “the oppressive feeling that one or more limbs of one’s body do not belong to one’s self”. Truthfully, I’m not sure why you think a person wanting to amputate his/her genitalia is less disordered than wanting to amputate an arm or leg.

 

[BrassAnkles]

How exactly did you figure that out:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_among_LGBT_youth

From your own link:

“Researchers have found that attempted suicide rates and suicidal ideation among lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, and questioning (LGBTQQ) youth is comparatively higher than among the general population. LGBT teens and young adults have one of the highest rates of suicide attempts.”

From the Center for Disease Control:

"Teen Suicide Rate: Highest Increase In 15 Years"

sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070907221530.htm

From the Suicide Prevention Resource Center:

"Many studies have found that LGB youth attempt suicide more frequently than straight peers. "

torontodistresscentre.com/sites/torontodistresscentre.com/files/Suicidal%20Behavior%20Among%20Lesbian,%20Gay,%20Bisexual,%20and%20Transgender%20Youth.pdf