Transgender teen who died of an apparent suicide: ‘Fix society. Please.’

[BrassAnkles]

Why do you keep bringing up things that were prohibited or required in the Old Testament. What about these other prohibitions?

Leviticus 19:19: “You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your animals breed with a different kind; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed; nor shall you put on a garment made of two different materials.”

Leviticus 19:27: “You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard.”

Leviticus 20: 9: “All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them.”

Or what about this requirement:

Duteronomy 22: 8: “When you build a new house, you shall make a parapet for your roof; otherwise you might have bloodguilt on your house, if anyone should fall from it.”

Why do you keep bringing up Lutheran doctrine??

This is a Catholic website and I wish you would respect that.

 

[SMGS127]

I didn’t read anything about abuse or conversion therapy in the article linked in the OP.

Her parents sent her to “counselors” who demanded she stop identifying as female, continuously attempted to shame her into believing that her condition was incompatible with Christianity (which is not Catholic teaching, by the way), and, when this didn’t work, withdrew her from school and all social contact and kept her house-locked and isolated from society because they blamed others for converting their child into transgenderism.

Definition of abuse.

 

[BrassAnkles]

Abuse is also telling these children they are born this way, when the Bible and science tells us different.

 

[SMGS127]

From your own link:

“Researchers have found that attempted suicide rates and suicidal ideation among lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, and questioning (LGBTQQ) youth is comparatively higher than among the general population. LGBT teens and young adults have one of the highest rates of suicide attempts.”

From the Center for Disease Control:

"Teen Suicide Rate: Highest Increase In 15 Years"

sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070907221530.htm

From the Suicide Prevention Resource Center:

"Many studies have found that LGB youth attempt suicide more frequently than straight peers. "

torontodistresscentre.com/sites/torontodistresscentre.com/files/Suicidal%20Behavior%20Among%20Lesbian,%20Gay,%20Bisexual,%20and%20Transgender%20Youth.pdf

Yes, LGBT teens commit suicide at a greater rate than heterosexual teens…because of the abuse, bullying, neglect, homelessness rate, and overall stress from being in a largely homophobic society.

 

[Thorolfr]

From your own link:

“Researchers have found that attempted suicide rates and suicidal ideation among lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, and questioning (LGBTQQ) youth is comparatively higher than among the general population. LGBT teens and young adults have one of the highest rates of suicide attempts.”

From the Center for Disease Control:

"Teen Suicide Rate: Highest Increase In 15 Years"

sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070907221530.htm

From the Suicide Prevention Resource Center:

"Many studies have found that LGB youth attempt suicide more frequently than straight peers. "

torontodistresscentre.com/sites/torontodistresscentre.com/files/Suicidal%20Behavior%20Among%20Lesbian,%20Gay,%20Bisexual,%20and%20Transgender%20Youth.pdf

The statistics you quote do not demonstrate that suicide now among LGBT folks is greater now than what it was in the past when they were less accepted.

 

[Finite]

Horrible story. Prayers are with both the family and with Leelah. It is true that our culture hasn’t yet reached a point where transgender people can feel “safe”. I just wish she would have held on a few more years to see that it would have gotten much better. Most teenagers are incapable of comprehending that their life hasn’t even really started. High School, and the pressures that come with it, is all just temporary. Teenagers can’t or won’t see that, sadly.

Just an all-around terrible, tragic story.

 

[MacBP]

I’m not entirely sure what to think about this. Suicide in one’s late adolescence and early adulthood is a huge problem. Maybe it’s the hormones, maybe it’s the fiber of our society, or maybe it’s something else entirely; regardless, I do know that we need to get better at recognizing, treating and stigmatizing anxiety, depression and suicidal ideation.

With that mind I think the victim is in need of prayer and the patents are in need of prayer, love, and support. Between the pain they must be feeling at the death of their child, the suicide note, and the vilification they are about to receive at the hands of the community. Perhaps they have contributed to the decision to commit suicide, but it probably wasn’t their intention.

Really just a terrible situation for everyone involved.

 

[Thorolfr]

Why do you keep bringing up Lutheran doctrine??

This is a Catholic website and I wish you would respect that.

You still haven’t demonstrated what an Old Testament prohibition on dressing across gender lines from Deuteronomy has to do with Christians today. If that Old Testament prohibition is important now, then why aren’t the prohibitions about wearing clothing made from two different kinds of material or planting two kinds of seeds in the same field? Why don’t we still have to put a parapet on our roofs?

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Her parents sent her to “counselors” who demanded she stop identifying as female, continuously attempted to shame her into believing that her condition was incompatible with Christianity (which is not Catholic teaching, by the way), and, when this didn’t work, withdrew her from school and all social contact and kept her house-locked and isolated from society because they blamed others for converting their child into transgenderism.

Definition of abuse.

-They could have been “counselors,” or they could have been actual counselors; and there is no reference in the article or the girl’s note about conversion therapy
-The girl obviously wasn’t house-locked given that the street artist claims to have known her since this last summer and saw her enough to form a friendship
-Taking away phones, internet usage (i.e. social media), and grounding isn’t actually abuse
-The only place I saw any reference to any of this was in the linked note in the article. Given her state of mind and her clear dislike for her parents, I don’t think it alone is enough to conclude that they abused her

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Yes, LGBT teens commit suicide at a greater rate than heterosexual teens…because of the abuse, bullying, neglect, homelessness rate, and overall stress from being in a largely homophobic society.

I don’t think it’s been proven (because they are LGBT or because they are abused, etc) either way.

 

[SWolf]

Her parents sent her to “counselors” who demanded she stop identifying as female, continuously attempted to shame her into believing that her condition was incompatible with Christianity (which is not Catholic teaching, by the way), and, when this didn’t work, withdrew her from school and all social contact and kept her house-locked and isolated from society because they blamed others for converting their child into transgenderism.

Definition of abuse.

He was a male.

Parents have every right to keep their kids from negative influences.

Obviously he still had contact, as some of his friends specified talking to him not long before he offed himself.

If what you wrote is abuse, lock me up, because I would have done the same thing in such an extreme situation.

 

[MacBP]

Why do you keep bringing up things that were prohibited or required in the Old Testament. What about these other prohibitions?

Leviticus 19:19: “You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your animals breed with a different kind; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed; nor shall you put on a garment made of two different materials.”

Leviticus 19:27: “You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard.”

Leviticus 20: 9: “All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them.”

Or what about this requirement:

Duteronomy 22: 8: “When you build a new house, you shall make a parapet for your roof; otherwise you might have bloodguilt on your house, if anyone should fall from it.”

A little off topic, but I thought I would take a stab at this because I see this hurled around an awful lots.

The laws of the Old Testament are interesting in that they aren’t all relevant and aren’t all irrelevant. Some were intended for all mankind (e.g. the 10 commandments) and are in accordance with Natural Law, some were intended just for the Jews, other just for the Jews at that particular time.

Consequently, equating all laws within the Old Testament as equivalent isn’t the right way to go about things. It falls to the Church to determine whether a certain law or prohibition in the Old Testament was binding to all or binding to some. Naturally, to answer this question we have to ask why that law was there, what moral principles underlie that law, and how does it fit in with the rest of what we know to be true.

Jesus did in the New Testament (he dismissed kosher while maintaining the 10 Commandments) and now that Jesus sits with the Father, that power of interpretation lies upon the Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

 

[BrassAnkles]

Yes, LGBT teens commit suicide at a greater rate than heterosexual teens…because of the abuse, bullying, neglect, homelessness rate, and overall stress from being in a largely homophobic society.

Society is much more embracing of homosexuality in our public schools and in general.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Yes, LGBT teens commit suicide at a greater rate than heterosexual teens…because of the abuse, bullying, neglect, homelessness rate, and overall stress from being in a largely homophobic society.

But is the answer to a “largely homophobic society” promoting among the young the idea that all sexual perversions are entirely normal; equal in value to heterosexual marriage? One is disinclined to think so. One also wonders about the degree to which societal insistence that all gender disorders are but reasonable demands to which society and individuals must accede, encourages fixation on acceptance and aid in achieving whatever condition the individual thinks will make him happy.

I recall reading a novel based on a true story (can’t remember now who wrote it) of a deeply religious homosexual man in, I believe, Poland who, during the Nazi era hid and sheltered an attractive Jewish boy, was attracted to him and yet never laid a hand on him or even suggested it.

One wonders how many people have lived with the affliction of sexual disorder quietly, expected no imagined favorable resolution through living out sexual fantasies, and because they realized that it would all be straightened out somehow in heaven, if they got there. I suspect no few saints did, recognized or unrecognized.

I have sometimes wondered, as I imagine many have, about some of the people one knows; knows even in the parish, who never married, who seem perhaps a bit odd (perhaps effiminate in the case of men or “butchy” in the case of women), yet put themselves very much into the service of the parish and others and never involve themselves in any kind of perversion. Are they, perhaps, like the Polish man in the novel?

One wonders sometimes too, about a person with some really significant physical defect or disease, who never talks about it, never expects someone to somehow “fix” it, leads a moral life and (if we knew) perhaps expects it all to be straightened out in heaven.

And so, faced with afflictions that really can’t be “fixed” other than a fantasized way, is the better counsel to advise them to share it quietly with their Creator alone, or is it better to encourage a very morally doubtful “remedy here and now” that may change all but the reality?

 

[Cider]

What a waste of a life. From the posted suicide note it sure seems this poor boy had some serious problems and the planned suicide was the worst kind of plea for attention. His friend isn’t helping by blaming the parents. The boy was 17, he could have moved out and chosen to live his deviant lifestyle very soon.

 

[SWolf]

I recall reading a novel based on a true story (can’t remember now who wrote it) of a deeply religious homosexual man in, I believe, Poland who, during the Nazi era hid and sheltered an attractive Jewish boy, was attracted to him and yet never laid a hand on him or even suggested it.

I believe it was a Michael O’Brien. Strangers and Sojourners maybe?

 

[Cider]

Once again we see how dangerous the ideologies of conversion therapists are to the wellbeing of our children . I hope her death sparks nationwide bans on conversion therapy for both transgenderism and homosexuality for minors. These suicides need to stop – we need to change our culture.

We see the dangerous ideologies that support transgenderism as normal to the point where someone clearly with a mental illness chooses to sacrifice their life to further the cause. The online post by the boy is clear evidence that that is what happened here.

 

[RACJ]

I apologize not being clear. I agree with you. It was an appendum to your post, not an attack.

No offense was taken, Friend. I just wanted to be clear about my point. Happy New Year, Rob

 

[oldcatholicguy]

We see the dangerous ideologies that support transgenderism as normal to the point where someone clearly with a mental illness chooses to sacrifice their life to further the cause. The online post by the boy is clear evidence that that is what happened here.

I would think the mental illness played a greater role in the suicide then the “cause.”

 

[Thorolfr]

Here are Leelah’s final words in full:

If you are reading this, it means that I have committed suicide and obviously failed to delete this post from my queue.

Please don’t be sad, it’s for the better. The life I would’ve lived isn’t worth living in … because I’m transgender. I could go into detail explaining why I feel that way, but this note is probably going to be lengthy enough as it is. To put it simply, I feel like a girl trapped in a boy’s body, and I’ve felt that way ever since I was 4. I never knew there was a word for that feeling, nor was it possible for a boy to become a girl, so I never told anyone and I just continued to do traditionally “boyish” things to try to fit in.

When I was 14, I learned what transgender meant and cried of happiness. After 10 years of confusion I finally understood who I was. I immediately told my mom, and she reacted extremely negatively, telling me that it was a phase, that I would never truly be a girl, that God doesn’t make mistakes, that I am wrong. If you are reading this, parents, please don’t tell this to your kids. Even if you are Christian or are against transgender people don’t ever say that to someone, especially your kid. That won’t do anything but make them hate them self. That’s exactly what it did to me.

My mom started taking me to a therapist, but would only take me to Christian therapists, (who were all very biased) so I never actually got the therapy I needed to cure me of my depression. I only got more Christians telling me that I was selfish and wrong and that I should look to God for help.

When I was 16 I realized that my parents would never come around, and that I would have to wait until I was 18 to start any sort of transitioning treatment, which absolutely broke my heart. The longer you wait, the harder it is to transition. I felt hopeless, that I was just going to look like a man in drag for the rest of my life. On my 16th birthday, when I didn’t receive consent from my parents to start transitioning, I cried myself to sleep.

I formed a sort of a “**** you” attitude towards my parents and came out as gay at school, thinking that maybe if I eased into coming out as trans it would be less of a shock. Although the reaction from my friends was positive, my parents were pissed. They felt like I was attacking their image, and that I was an embarrassment to them. They wanted me to be their perfect little straight Christian boy, and that’s obviously not what I wanted.

So they took me out of public school, took away my laptop and phone, and forbid me of getting on any sort of social media, completely isolating me from my friends. This was probably the part of my life when I was the most depressed, and I’m surprised I didn’t kill myself. I was completely alone for 5 months. No friends, no support, no love. Just my parent’s disappointment and the cruelty of loneliness.

At the end of the school year, my parents finally came around and gave me my phone and let me back on social media. I was excited, I finally had my friends back. They were extremely excited to see me and talk to me, but only at first. Eventually they realized they didn’t actually give a **** about me, and I felt even lonelier than I did before. The only friends I thought I had only liked me because they saw me five times a week.

After a summer of having almost no friends plus the weight of having to think about college, save money for moving out, keep my grades up, go to church each week and feel like **** because everyone there is against everything I live for, I have decided I’ve had enough. I’m never going to transition successfully, even when I move out. I’m never going to be happy with the way I look or sound. I’m never going to have enough friends to satisfy me. I’m never going to have enough love to satisfy me. I’m never going to find a man who loves me. I’m never going to be happy. Either I live the rest of my life as a lonely man who wishes he were a woman or I live my life as a lonelier woman who hates herself. There’s no winning. There’s no way out. I’m sad enough already, I don’t need my life to get any worse. People say “it gets better” but that isn’t true in my case. It gets worse. Each day I get worse.

That’s the gist of it, that’s why I feel like killing myself. Sorry if that’s not a good enough reason for you, it’s good enough for me. As for my will, I want 100% of the things that I legally own to be sold and the money (plus my money in the bank) to be given to trans civil rights movements and support groups, I don’t give a **** which one. The only way I will rest in peace is if one day transgender people aren’t treated the way I was, they’re treated like humans, with valid feelings and human rights. Gender needs to be taught about in schools, the earlier the better. My death needs to mean something. My death needs to be counted in the number of transgender people who commit suicide this year. I want someone to look at that number and say “that’s ****ed up” and fix it. Fix society. Please.

Goodbye,
(Leelah) Josh Alcorn

slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/12/31/leelah_alcorn_transgender_teen_from_ohio_should_be_honored_in_death.html