Transgender teen who died of an apparent suicide: ‘Fix society. Please.’

[Path_Finder]

People pushing the concept that homosexual relationships are no different with heterosexual relationships want you and me to stop using the phrase “homosexual lifestyle,” another way to normalize and have everyone accept it. Of course, when it is used by most people, it is not meant to refer to activities like going to the market or watching tv, or a preference for jazz over rock, etc. Homosexual lifestyle is being in a same sex relationship, or one who is looking for a same sex partner, believing in same sex legal unions / “marriage”, forming a family, as though gay parenting is equivalent to traditional parenting. IOW, this is conditioning, another thought control via language control. Just like how “gay” and “homophobia” came to be common usage, their current meanings not anywhere near the original denotation or connotation.

As I explained to someone who had the nerve to “educate” me via PM that it is an offensive phrase, it is objective phrasing like “the lifestyle of the rich and famous.” The rich and famous go out to dinner and watch movies for recreation like most everyone, sure, but that is hardly what is unique about their lifestyle!

Bachelor lifestyle is used as well, that can mean anything from acting like a playboy to eating spaghettios out of the can for meals, having clothes on the floor and a messy abode.

There’s even words such as “Bachelor Pad”, but what does it mean? It concocts a sort of lifestyle.

The lifestyle terminology always comes up in these conversations.
,

 

[shelby_sun]

To me, labeling any individual’s life style, comparing it to another’s or to one’s on values is wrong. Each relationship is different and many times no one knows the true details.

I have “good” Catholic neighbors that treated our others same sex partner neighbors like dirt, not even like human beings, judging what they though they were doing behind closed doors. What the rest of us saw were two wonderfully nice men, living in the same house, taking care of the elderly widowed women in the neighborhood, pleasant and helpful to everyone. They kept up their house beautifully, never had wild parties, and were fantastic to have around. I would take those two men over the "Catholic: family next to me any day of the week. Unfortunately, those men moved, but ironically very nice gay couple as moved right next door to our judgement friends.

 

[SMGS127]

Using the phrase “homosexual lifestyle” is no different than saying “f****t,” and it should be banned from these forums. It is a code word that has been used for decades to refer to gay people as drug abusers and sex fanatics. Seriously, where on Earth did the concept of charity go amongst hardcore conservative Christians? I don’t talk about the “heterosexual lifestyle” of abortions, abortions everywhere, not to mention the rampant contraception usage, despite that actually being more accurate and exclusive to heterosexuals than the underlying meaning of “homosexual lifestyle.”

Ugh, it’s stuff like this that makes me wonder why the hell I’m Catholic. There’s no sense of charity here whatsoever. Newsflash: being polite to someone doesn’t mean you’re telling them to have sex or approving them having sex. And encouraging people to be polite is not the same thing as trying to “normalize homosexual behavior.”

 

[St_Francis]

Let’s say that this youth was “only” suffering from depression. This is a legitimate sickness that greatly affects one’s behaviors, attitudes, and thoughts. If she had been suffering from a brain tumor, I doubt we’d be arguing about her suicide note – we’d likely chalk up her language and anger to her illness. Those suffering from serious depression usually lose all perspective. It’s not surprising to me that she was not behaving in a stable way or that she was filled with anger – depression often leads to such reactions. And 17-year-olds actually aren’t as able to manage depression. The human brain isn’t even fully developed until 25 years or so, and that goes for the decision-making portions of the brain, too. I think we have to consider that she was legitimately ill and her ultimate choices were heavily flavored by this fact.

So we are talking about a seriously mentally ill, neurologically undeveloped teen who cannot make responsible decisions are some here are criticizing the parents for not going along with the idea of undertaking a huge life-altering decision?

 

[gracepoole]

So we are talking about a seriously mentally ill, neurologically undeveloped teen who cannot make responsible decisions are some here are criticizing the parents for not going along with the idea of undertaking a huge life-altering decision?

I can’t speak for others here but I would see it as most likely that we’re talking about a seriously mentally ill, neurologically underdeveloped teen who happened to live with parents who (like most parents grappling with a seriously depressed teen) were woefully unprepared. (Note that I don’t think this child was mentally ill for her view of her gender – I think she was mentally ill because she was clearly severely depressed.)

 

[St_Francis]

I can’t speak for others here but I would see it as most likely that we’re talking about a seriously mentally ill, neurologically underdeveloped teen who happened to live with parents who (like most parents grappling with a seriously depressed teen) were woefully unprepared. (Note that I don’t think this child was mentally ill for her view of her gender – I think she was mentally ill because she was clearly severely depressed.)

My point is that there should be compassion and not condemnation for the parents. You are saying they were woefully unprepared because they reacted in a way you happen tk disagree wjth. GID trumps everything. Bit if he was seriously enough mentally ill to not be responsible for his malicious actions, how could he be responsible enough to be taken seriously about the GID? Either he should have been taken seriously, in which case, he was not seriously mentally ill, *or *he was seriously mentally ill and not responsible.

 

[shelby_sun]

My point is that there should be compassion and not condemnation for the parents. You are saying they were woefully unprepared because they reacted in a way you happen tk disagree wjth. GID trumps everything. Bit if he was seriously enough mentally ill to not be responsible for his malicious actions, how could he be responsible enough to be taken seriously about the GID? Either he should have been taken seriously, in which case, he was not seriously mentally ill, *or *he was seriously mentally ill and not responsible.

IMO, this situation is so unclear and not readily understood by most people in the world that no one should be judging, but I can see where some can simple not be compassionate for complete lack of experience, even remotely, to come to that point.

To come to the point of suicide, the first thing that came to my mind was that the parents were much more negative and abusive than we knew; however, my next thought was that is simple not fair to assume. This is a incident that will never be completely understood and IMO we should pray for those who face these kinds of feelings and challenges.

 

[gracepoole]

My point is that there should be compassion and not condemnation for the parents. You are saying they were woefully unprepared because they reacted in a way you happen tk disagree wjth. GID trumps everything. Bit if he was seriously enough mentally ill to not be responsible for his malicious actions, how could he be responsible enough to be taken seriously about the GID? Either he should have been taken seriously, in which case, he was not seriously mentally ill, *or *he was seriously mentally ill and not responsible.

No, actually I have tremendous sympathy for the parents. As I said, I think any parent would be woefully unprepared. No one anticipates this situation and there’s no owner’s manual that can successfully guide a parent through it. Yes, I think there were probably other approaches that may have led to different results – but who can say with certainty? And as a parent, I know the what if’s will likely consume and torture these parents for the rest of their lives. I have no interest in adding to their pain or condemning them. I just don’t think it’s an either/or proposition: either we condemn the parents or we condemn the child. Everyone here suffered and the parents will continue to suffer horribly. It’s a horrifying tragedy all around.

I have a feeling that gender identity disorder was a powerful contributor to the depression. I don’t know how one could gauge which was more powerful at the time of death.

 

[meltzerboy]

No, actually I have tremendous sympathy for the parents. As I said, I think any parent would be woefully unprepared. No one anticipates this situation and there’s no owner’s manual that can successfully guide a parent through it. Yes, I think there were probably other approaches that may have led to different results – but who can say with certainty? And as a parent, I know the what if’s will likely consume and torture these parents for the rest of their lives. I have no interest in adding to their pain or condemning them. I just don’t think it’s an either/or proposition: either we condemn the parents or we condemn the child. Everyone here suffered and the parents will continue to suffer horribly. It’s a horrifying tragedy all around.

I have a feeling that gender identity disorder was a powerful contributor to the depression. I don’t know how one could gauge which was more powerful at the time of death.

I completely agree with what you say here. It doesn’t have to be an either-or situation (one or the other party is guilty) although, again appealing to cognitive psychology, most of us think in terms of duality (two possible choices) rather than in terms of three or four choices, and some of us are black-or-white thinkers who cannot tolerate any ambiguity. It is a tragedy here all around and perhaps no one is guilty, or perhaps both the parents and the child bear some guilt and responsibility. We simply don’t know for sure. All we know is that the parents are still suffering and their child who committed suicide was suffering.

 

[Darryl1958]

I agree with you. At worse the parents handled the situation horribly and dropped the ball several times, but as far as I can tell there was no ill will or malice in their actions. They did what they thought was best for the well being of their child and now they are going to spend the rest of their lives with regret and “We should have done this instead”'s. The monsters in this tragedy are the ones on both sides of the issue of transgenderism and homosexuality that are using it to profit their own cause.

Myself, I haven’t expressed much of a point of view on transgenderism either way, except to note that it has been heavily associated with suicide, and how suicide is being used as a political tool.
I fail to see how those advocating against transgenderism are able to profit from this tragedy though. On the other hand, the intent to profit from this suicide is overt by the people who seek to use this tragedy to ‘fix’ society.

 

[savedbygrace71]

I’ve read through all the replies, and I’m staggered at what I’ve read, and surprisingly, what I’ve learned. To be honest, it gives me a whole new perspective on this situation. Prior to this thread, I felt very uncomfortable looking at pictures of Leela, and I’ve never quite been able to believe or understand the concept of transgender. In my mind, it’s always been, he has male genitals, he is male, whatever is going on in his mind is a mental issue. Valid, but mental, not physical. It never occured to me that the physical parts could be the “mistake.” When they say they’ve always felt like the opposite sex, it just sounded absurd- but now, I guess I can see a possibility…

I have so much compassion for Leela’s parents, because realistically, I don’t know how well I would respond either. My kids often say and do odd things- and I’ve suggested in conversation in the past, that parents who “go along with” gender issues are “indulging” something that could possibly be waited out. That by letting a teen boy dress and act like a girl, it could end up hurting him more later. I don’t say that out of self righteous indignation or a loathing of LBGT but more an honest sense of, teenage years are fraught with hormones, rages, need for drama… Obviously, there is a lot, lot more to it than I understand. But the It’s not a life that I have any first hand experience of. I kind of don’t want first hand experience, sadly. It seems painful, awkward, and just wrong somehow. Not sinful wrong but wrong like a bird with a broken wing. It just isn’t working.

At the same time, Leela touches me- I know that if I had met her, I’d feel so much differently. A person, a real living person, is so much easier to feel love and empathy for than a story on the news. I pray for her soul, and for her parents’ recovery. I think her goal of changing society, well there’s a long way to go. But at least we are thinking and talking.

 

[cena]

I’ve read through all the replies, and I’m staggered at what I’ve read, and surprisingly, what I’ve learned. To be honest, it gives me a whole new perspective on this situation. Prior to this thread, I felt very uncomfortable looking at pictures of Leela, and I’ve never quite been able to believe or understand the concept of transgender. In my mind, it’s always been, he has male genitals, he is male, whatever is going on in his mind is a mental issue. Valid, but mental, not physical. It never occured to me that the physical parts could be the “mistake.” When they say they’ve always felt like the opposite sex, it just sounded absurd- but now, I guess I can see a possibility…

I have so much compassion for Leela’s parents, because realistically, I don’t know how well I would respond either. My kids often say and do odd things- and I’ve suggested in conversation in the past, that parents who “go along with” gender issues are “indulging” something that could possibly be waited out. That by letting a teen boy dress and act like a girl, it could end up hurting him more later. I don’t say that out of self righteous indignation or a loathing of LBGT but more an honest sense of, teenage years are fraught with hormones, rages, need for drama… Obviously, there is a lot, lot more to it than I understand. But the It’s not a life that I have any first hand experience of. I kind of don’t want first hand experience, sadly. It seems painful, awkward, and just wrong somehow. Not sinful wrong but wrong like a bird with a broken wing. It just isn’t working.

At the same time, Leela touches me- I know that if I had met her, I’d feel so much differently. A person, a real living person, is so much easier to feel love and empathy for than a story on the news. I pray for her soul, and for her parents’ recovery. I think her goal of changing society, well there’s a long way to go. But at least we are thinking and talking.

Is there any proof that people are born with the wrong bodies? Like would the person know for sure, it seems to be based more on feelings

 

[Sgk904]

Is there any proof that people are born with the wrong bodies? Like would the person know for sure, it seems to be based more on feelings

Why don’t you ask a trans person?
If you can’t, most trans people would probably tell you that they know for sure. It is usually an extremely strong feeling that they were born in the wrong body. It’s probably hard to be unsure about that.

 

[Lion_IRC]

Using the phrase “homosexual lifestyle” is no different than saying “f****t,”

I think it is perfectly OK to use the term homosexual lifestyle.
If you equate it with the disgraceful epithet “f@gg0t” that’s your business but please don’t accuse others of having that intent. That’s a very uncharitable allegation.

…it should be banned from these forums.

Why? For the same reason Christians are having their freedom of speech/conscience restricted elsewhere in society for fear of offending the LGBTQ lobby?
Why do I have to ‘tolerate’ their sexuality but they won’t tolerate my SPIRITUALITY?

… It is a code word that has been used for decades to refer to gay people as drug abusers and sex fanatics.

What? Why? I don’t understand.
I need to know.
Are gay people statistically more likely to be recreational drug users? Are they more promiscuous? Do they have higher rates of infidelity? Are their rates of STD’s higher? Are they statistically over-represented in crime stats for partner-on-partner domestic violence? Self-harm? Depression?
For decades you say??? Hmmm!

… Seriously, where on Earth did the concept of charity go amongst hardcore conservative Christians?

What do you mean by charity? I would think that if the gay lifestyle did pose a risk, (let alone the question of what the bible says about sexual immorality,) then the most CHARITABLE most LOVING thing one could do would be to warn and protect young people.

… I don’t talk about the “heterosexual lifestyle” of abortions, abortions everywhere,

Why not?
You should!
Abortion and homosexual behaviour are both sinful and both relate to sexual hedonism.
…you want CAF to ban all criticism of abortion-on-demand as well? Would it bother you that many people here think abortion is a "code word" for murder.

…not to mention the rampant contraception usage, despite that actually being more accurate and exclusive to heterosexuals than the underlying meaning of “homosexual lifestyle.”

Exactly how many moral topics do you want people to hide under a bushel for fear of offending someone?

…Ugh, it’s stuff like this that makes me wonder why the hell I’m Catholic.

How about we all stick to our own personal relationship with Jesus Christ? Comments like that are a slap in the face to other people (those you sit next to at Mass) who might equally ask themselves the same thing about your comments - but out of charity they do not!

… There’s no sense of charity here whatsoever.

You keep accusing others of lacking charity because they hold views contrary to yours.
Do yourself a favor and contemplate this;
In necessariis unitas,
in dubiis libertas,
in omnibus caritas.

 

[Sgk904]

I’ve read through all the replies, and I’m staggered at what I’ve read, and surprisingly, what I’ve learned. To be honest, it gives me a whole new perspective on this situation. Prior to this thread, I felt very uncomfortable looking at pictures of Leela, and I’ve never quite been able to believe or understand the concept of transgender. In my mind, it’s always been, he has male genitals, he is male, whatever is going on in his mind is a mental issue. Valid, but mental, not physical. It never occured to me that the physical parts could be the “mistake.” When they say they’ve always felt like the opposite sex, it just sounded absurd- but now, I guess I can see a possibility…

I have so much compassion for Leela’s parents, because realistically, I don’t know how well I would respond either. My kids often say and do odd things- and I’ve suggested in conversation in the past, that parents who “go along with” gender issues are “indulging” something that could possibly be waited out. That by letting a teen boy dress and act like a girl, it could end up hurting him more later. I don’t say that out of self righteous indignation or a loathing of LBGT but more an honest sense of, teenage years are fraught with hormones, rages, need for drama… Obviously, there is a lot, lot more to it than I understand. But the It’s not a life that I have any first hand experience of. I kind of don’t want first hand experience, sadly. It seems painful, awkward, and just wrong somehow. Not sinful wrong but wrong like a bird with a broken wing. It just isn’t working.

At the same time, Leela touches me- I know that if I had met her, I’d feel so much differently. A person, a real living person, is so much easier to feel love and empathy for me than a story on the news. I pray for her soul, and for her parents’ recovery. I think her goal of changing society, well there’s a long way to go. But at least we are thinking and talking.

Thank you for trying to be understanding. I’ve never completely understood trans people either, but I feel as though everyone should be kind to others, and if that includes calling them by what they identify as can help them. All I would like to add is that being LGBT is often not just a phase and should not be called thusly. Thanks again for your understanding, and please continue being accepting towards people who need it.
God bless.

 

[Thorolfr]

I think it is perfectly OK to use the term homosexual lifestyle.

So you don’t mind LGBT people talking about the “heterosexual lifestyle” as a code for all the bad things about heterosexual sex? It was, after all, a heterosexual couple (Adam & Eve) who introduced sin into the world and their “heterosexual lifestyle” brought the first murderer (Cain) into the world. And the first curse on humans was that God made the fruit of the “heterosexual lifestyle” very painful for women. As Genesis 3:16 says:

To the woman he said,
“I will greatly increase your pangs in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children,
yet your desire shall be for your husband,
and he shall rule over you.”

All sinners including murderers, thieves, and psychopaths are born as a result of the “heterosexual lifestyle”.

 

[cena]

So you don’t mind LGBT people talking about the “heterosexual lifestyle” as a code for all the bad things about heterosexual sex? It was, after all, a heterosexual couple (Adam & Eve) who introduced sin into the world and their “heterosexual lifestyle” brought the first murderer (Cain) into the world. And the first curse on humans was that God made the fruit of the “heterosexual lifestyle” very painful for women. As Genesis 3:16 says:

All sinners including murderers, thieves, and psychopaths are born as a result of the “heterosexual lifestyle”.

Cain didn’t become a murderer because of heterosexual sex. Also, original sin was because of pride not lust.

Using the term “heterosexual lifestyle” for things like contraception would be valid but not really for Adam and Eve or Cain. Also, homosexual sex has no fruit to begin with.

 

[Darryl1958]

Heterosexual lifestyle is simply defined as a man and a woman coming together in holy matrimony to fulfill the unitive and procreative aspects of the human organism. Spiritually, heterosexual lifestyle is a recogniition through experiential knowing that like Adam and Eve, man and woman are essentially created as one organism, and differentiated into persons in order to fulfill the elements of love, where it is not good to be alone. This is an icon of the Holy Trinity itself, where the unity of God is expressed in three persons in order to fulfill the elements of love, even as God is One.

Anything other than than is not heterosexual lifestyle, but diverse practices of sodomy and disorder.

 

[WonderAndAwe]

Why don’t you ask a trans person?
If you can’t, most trans people would probably tell you that they know for sure. It is usually an extremely strong feeling that they were born in the wrong body. It’s probably hard to be unsure about that.

Anorexics “know for sure” that they are horrifically overweight. But whereas Anorexia is classified as a severe mental disorder that should NEVER be indulged, transgenderism is for whatever reason indulged as though it’s put on the same level as a cleft lip or something.

My guess is because our sexualized culture wants absolute unchecked freedom of everything having to do with your crawdads and because this is about thinking you have the wrong set, instead of working to make you accept that your body is the righ one, you get to indulged a mental illness because sexuality trumps all else. “Don’t infringe on my sexuality, you prudish Puritans!” the advocates cry out, unaware that the Puritans hated the physical body so much that they’d probably be in favor of mutilating it to fit your internal belief of how it’s supposed to be. Or maybe not, I could care less about a long dead Christian sect.

 

[mkoopman]

Why don’t you ask a trans person?
If you can’t, most trans people would probably tell you that they know for sure. It is usually an extremely strong feeling that they were born in the wrong body. It’s probably hard to be unsure about that.

There is Vedic mythology that supports this? Do you think that perhaps the types of rice produce different effects on the initial brain in the fetus? / Thought I would spice it up.

Is there a potential to re-establish a brain chemistry that would be as effective as modifying a body with hormones and, even, surgical means? Would this be less affective of the person?

Which remediation would be a lesser or greater violation of the integrity of the whole person? How is jurisprudence exercised to determine the best medical procedures with either case?