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oldcatholicguy
Guest
What it means is that GID is a mental disorder that is caused by some sort of biological abnormality (either “born with it” or environmental or both) or mental trauma or both.
Transgender teen who died of an apparent suicide: ‘Fix society. Please.’
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Cherry5
Guest
Hope you are feeling better today.
I would like to put the two real life examples before you:
1 Leelah, the route the patents took with the not surprising out come (over 40% of transgender kids before the age of 21 attempt suicide due to rejection mainly by parents).
2 the route this deacon took
gaystarnews.com/article/catholic-preacher-tells-parents-love-your-trans-daughter-i-do020115 , he still has his child, it was a tremendous adjustment for him.
Knowing what you do today, which route would you take if you had a transgender child.?
Which path would Pope Francis recommend? Do you think the church should reprimand the preacher and force him to get his child to reparative therapy with the associatd risk?
Have a nice day.
God bless you
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Lion_IRC
Guest
Is there any such verse in the New Testament?
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Havard
Guest
We have a lot to learn about GID. So let’s not frame the issue as the only choices being extremely controversial therapy or total acceptance of the identified gender. I think the Holy Father would advocate unconditional love, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he’d weigh in on the scientific questions that need to be sorted through.
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Lion_IRC
Guest
I feel the same today as yesterday.
Thanks for your concern but your imaginings about my mood/personality are not the topic of this Op
That LGBTQ people have phenomenally high rates of mental illness, partner-on-partner domestic violence and attempted self-harm is NOT news to me.
Catholic priest tells parents to love their children? WOW!
That parents should love their children is NOT news to me. (It’s in the bible)
ETA - warning to other readers. The page link which Cherry5 provided to the ‘gaystarnews’ contains advertising and comments which some people may find offensive. (gay sex tourism ads, anti-catholic commentary, gay lifestyle promo etc.)
What do you mean…“knowing what you do today”?
You haven’t added anything new to my knowledge.
A biblical one!
I would dearly love to hear the LGBTQI lobby start embracing the bible and standing up for the Church on issues of gender and sexuality. (And the sanctity of human life.)
What biblical/doctrinal basis would the Church have to reprimand the priest?
Some of the damage done to impressionable young minds can’t be repaired.
Thanks. He has richly blessed me.
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oldcatholicguy
Guest
I would assume so since you’ve claimed you are trying to get the conversation back to theology/morality, that the reason for you posting just citations of the Bible is toward this aim, and you demanded an apology from all of us who have attempted suicide/have depression. It would be rather uncharitable of me to think you made such a comment with not actual basis in the Bible since that seems to be the criteria you are using.
Also, I noticed you didn’t bother to actually respond to my apology for being one of those people who have some how inconvenienced you by being so selfish as having a mental illness that resulted in me attempting suicide. Apparently you “care” so much that it slipped your mind to even acknowledge my apology for being one of those selfish people.
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estesbob
Guest
Joshua came to his parents and said he wanted to mutilate himself and pump his body full of harmful hormones. Naturally his parents were concerned he wanted to harm himself in this way and sought to get him. help Unfortunately his friends, his friends parents and social media all told him his problem was not that he wanted to mutilate himself and pump himself full of harmful hormones , it was his parents. They continued to egg him on and he commits suicide but not before leaving scathing messages to his parents and commenting he hopes his death will “fix” society. And now his parents are blamed. Perfect summation how screwed up our culture is.
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Joie_de_Vivre
Guest
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Somewhat different numbers between those supported and rejected by family.
LGBT people are more likely to be poor and poor people people are more likely to experience higher rate of mental illness and domestic violence; family rejection is associated with poverty, higher rates of mental illness, domestic violence and suicide.
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estesbob
Guest
Seems like a lot of profound conclusions are based on talking to exactly 473 people.
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Path_Finder
Guest
Just snipping the images.
I don’t know though if they can get a real sample group of transgendered persons.
I notice too, it is now becoming LGBTI as well, I for Intergender.
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Path_Finder
Guest
I think also, all children run into such stumbling blocks as unsupportive parents and so on.
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estesbob
Guest
Of course they do-that’s why they need parents. I am amazed how much smarter my parents were when I was 26 as opposed to when I was 16!
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estesbob
Guest
They ought to just make it EBH-Everybody but Heterosexuals
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Zachary
Guest
Where to start in disecting such a messy thread? It’s is just an impossible task. I’ve been back and forth and it’s hard. It’s not nearly as clear cut as many are trying to make it to be. So here are some thoughts I hope I can convey.
I caution that it is unfair to demonize the parents (who are not here to defend themselves) and it is imprudent to lionize the child or the action taken both before death (planning to blindside parents with a brutally mean message) and the suicide itself. Both contributed to the outcome in one way or another whether they intended to or not. It’s certainly not just societies fault. That’s just lazy.
I have found no one has offered a satisfactory answer that truly represents the Church’s POV.
I have learned a great deal about perspective from reading all ~600 posts. I want to thank those who were able to explain what the condition itself is to those afflicted (the belief, real or otherwise, that your body is the wrong match for your mind.)
I think most of us agree that a) we are males or females b) there are many manifestations of sexual preference and c) our mind doesn’t always get along with our bodies. I hate to call it a spectrum (because I personally believe that is used as an excuse to accept behavious we all know the Church codemns.)
That said, I’d like to ask how a transgenedered person actually KNOWS what the gender they believe they physically are not really thinks? It would seem to me it could only be based on something impersonal (by that I mean learned from other people.) If you were on a deserted island and never met another human, would you “just know” you were a “woman trapped in a man’s body?” I don’t mean to make light, but, don’t well all suffer from some type of dysmorphia, whether it be gender, some other physical issue or even a mental state (my brother believes he’s a rock star…)
I’ll be away for a while so won’t likely get to read much more of this thread (thank God
.) So, if I may be so bold to offer some advice (take it or leave it)
Don’t end with “I’ll pray for you.” It’s just so arrogant or patronizing or self-righteous. Unless someone is asking for prayer (or there’s an obvious “help me”) then just quietly pray for that person. Plus, would it not be helpful to pray for yourself to better understand and communicate with that other person?
To Lion IRC - there’s no need to answer every “hope you’re doing well today” with snark. Just ignore it. And those who are suggesting you trying to reframe your comments are right. I agree with a lot of what you say, but, no one will listen to a banging gong or noisy cymbal (forgive my biblical misquote).
To Rin - You seem to be an exceptional case in having gone through “the change” (I forget if it was hormonal or surgical) and remaining celibate. I get a sense that most people in your position and who change their outward appearance to better resemble their mental gender are not completing the puzzle to be celibate. That you’ve done so without also engaging in sexual relationships and have remained chaste (and, it would seem to be your calling) then congratulations; it must be quite difficult.
To others, (including Rin), Oldguy, maybe Cherry, some others (I not only lost track of the point of this thread by reading ~600 posts, but also who’s taken what position by all the sniping and smart-xxx replies) while compassion is certainly evident in your posts, it is also clear that the matter has been internalised so much so that it may be preventing a completely objective view. Step outside and TRY to understand your opponent’s point of view. Go watch a CA Apologist in a debate. They NEVER resort to the name calling and one-upsmanship this post has devolved to.
There are some of you who have been very level headed and tried to be peaceful, kind but direct. Keep it up.
I think if we all HONESTLY look inward, we know we are sinners and that no amount of emotional pleas or codemnation of others can change this Truth.
I’ll pray for you all
I caution that it is unfair to demonize the parents (who are not here to defend themselves) and it is imprudent to lionize the child or the action taken both before death (planning to blindside parents with a brutally mean message) and the suicide itself. Both contributed to the outcome in one way or another whether they intended to or not. It’s certainly not just societies fault. That’s just lazy.
I have found no one has offered a satisfactory answer that truly represents the Church’s POV.
I have learned a great deal about perspective from reading all ~600 posts. I want to thank those who were able to explain what the condition itself is to those afflicted (the belief, real or otherwise, that your body is the wrong match for your mind.)
I think most of us agree that a) we are males or females b) there are many manifestations of sexual preference and c) our mind doesn’t always get along with our bodies. I hate to call it a spectrum (because I personally believe that is used as an excuse to accept behavious we all know the Church codemns.)
That said, I’d like to ask how a transgenedered person actually KNOWS what the gender they believe they physically are not really thinks? It would seem to me it could only be based on something impersonal (by that I mean learned from other people.) If you were on a deserted island and never met another human, would you “just know” you were a “woman trapped in a man’s body?” I don’t mean to make light, but, don’t well all suffer from some type of dysmorphia, whether it be gender, some other physical issue or even a mental state (my brother believes he’s a rock star…)
I’ll be away for a while so won’t likely get to read much more of this thread (thank God
.) So, if I may be so bold to offer some advice (take it or leave it)Don’t end with “I’ll pray for you.” It’s just so arrogant or patronizing or self-righteous. Unless someone is asking for prayer (or there’s an obvious “help me”) then just quietly pray for that person. Plus, would it not be helpful to pray for yourself to better understand and communicate with that other person?
To Lion IRC - there’s no need to answer every “hope you’re doing well today” with snark. Just ignore it. And those who are suggesting you trying to reframe your comments are right. I agree with a lot of what you say, but, no one will listen to a banging gong or noisy cymbal (forgive my biblical misquote).
To Rin - You seem to be an exceptional case in having gone through “the change” (I forget if it was hormonal or surgical) and remaining celibate. I get a sense that most people in your position and who change their outward appearance to better resemble their mental gender are not completing the puzzle to be celibate. That you’ve done so without also engaging in sexual relationships and have remained chaste (and, it would seem to be your calling) then congratulations; it must be quite difficult.
To others, (including Rin), Oldguy, maybe Cherry, some others (I not only lost track of the point of this thread by reading ~600 posts, but also who’s taken what position by all the sniping and smart-xxx replies) while compassion is certainly evident in your posts, it is also clear that the matter has been internalised so much so that it may be preventing a completely objective view. Step outside and TRY to understand your opponent’s point of view. Go watch a CA Apologist in a debate. They NEVER resort to the name calling and one-upsmanship this post has devolved to.
There are some of you who have been very level headed and tried to be peaceful, kind but direct. Keep it up.
I think if we all HONESTLY look inward, we know we are sinners and that no amount of emotional pleas or codemnation of others can change this Truth.
I’ll pray for you all
G
gracepoole
Guest
Of course, knowing all that you’ve shared about this topic here on CAF, I know you’re not attempting to be flip regarding the many people who identify as gay, lesbian, or transgender. Suggesting an “EBH” category seems to indicate flippancy, however. I think when we respond to folks in these groups with this kind of approach, we immediately abandon any hope of a legitimate dialogue.
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Dawnia
Guest
Family conflict is a known common trait of those who commit suicide. It is not exclusive to LGBTs.
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Joie_de_Vivre
Guest
I is actually intersex, those whose bodies don’t fit cleanly into either male or female such as people with Klinefelt’s which is XXY; those with AIS where you have a genotypical XY person, but their body is not sensitive enough to androgens that it does not properly masculinize, on the extreme end of that spectrum you have CAIS which results in XY persons who are mentally female and naturally female looking from external appearances, but lack female reproductive organs and usually have undescended testes; there are many other intersex conditions.
There are unsupportive parents and then there are those who think you are sick and invalidate your existence.
That could replace LGB, but not T.
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estesbob
Guest
Actually I was being flip. I find the continued expansion of initials to be strange, to say the least. Like they are so afraid they will leave someone out they just keep adding initials. I think my solution would work great!
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estesbob
Guest
EBH&T? But then that is as long as the one being used. Oh well-I guess there is no solution to the initial proliferation.
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gracepoole
Guest
But why would someone who describes herself by the acronyms you’re questioning ever engage in a conversation with someone who is flip about them? Isn’t this the crux of this story’s experience? The girl who killed herself felt her responses were being ignored (and according to her, belittled). That can’t help in trying to reach out to someone like her.
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