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Joie_de_Vivre
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EBH&T is longer than LGBT which is counterproductive for simplification.
Transgender teen who died of an apparent suicide: ‘Fix society. Please.’
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Lion_IRC
Guest
My personal mood, intent and posting style is off topic.
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oldcatholicguy
Guest
I see, so what is a completely objective view toward the idea that individuals with a mental illness owe an apology to others for the inconvenience and hardship their mental illness, which they did not ask for and do not want, has caused these other people? What’s the completely objective view one should have toward someone who, after demanding such an apology and claiming said apology is needed in order to help the individual with their mental illness, proceeds to ignore an apology given to them because said apology comes from someone who does not fit their “it’s all about me, me, me” justification for demanding the apology?
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estesbob
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Yes, I noticed that. Now Grace tells me I am insensitive. My warped sense of humor strikes again!
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Path_Finder
Guest
That group that calls themselves “Q- Nation” kind of offends me since the “Q” word is somewhat of a pejorative or IS, if some quibble with my just saying “somewhat” but from there vantage point, perhaps it is justified.
Though those gay sites yes, could have a disclaimer put on them, I noted the top story for 2014 from advocate.com was indeed, something like “Conservatives challenging Pope Francis” or something like this.
To me, it seems to be a “good thing” that Pope Francis is seen positively in this manner that that would be the top story. But we will see. We must always pray for the Pope.
Though those gay sites yes, could have a disclaimer put on them, I noted the top story for 2014 from advocate.com was indeed, something like “Conservatives challenging Pope Francis” or something like this.
To me, it seems to be a “good thing” that Pope Francis is seen positively in this manner that that would be the top story. But we will see. We must always pray for the Pope.
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estesbob
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If you are a white heterosexual male you are not allowed to be offended by anything. just saying.
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Path_Finder
Guest
I don’t speak for Lion IRC but I remember a thread, maybe it was a torture thread where you excused yourself. We all probably should do that from time to time. However, I’m unaware of what was said that might need an apology. Still, as we are always told, discuss the issues themselves. Peace my Brother.
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gracepoole
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Ah, sorry, estesbob. I didn’t realize you were attempting to be funny.Yes, I noticed that. Now Grace tells me I am insensitive. My warped sense of humor strikes again!
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estesbob
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Story of my life
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oldcatholicguy
Guest
Thank you, I’ll take your advice.
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gracepoole
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Story of my life
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manualman
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Isn’t it possible that instead of trying to legitimize the feelings of every delusional person on the planet so that they still feel good about themselves, we point out the fact that ALL human beings are flawed and broken and in need of redemption, not just those of a particular group? It’s becoming a reasonable question to ask just how far do we have to go to accommodate people’s delusions in order to spare their feelings?
Once someone with “transgendered feelings” grasps the reality that being broken is a UNIVERSAL human condition, it becomes possible to accept it and construct a self-confidence based on the external reality that GOD loves us in spite of our flaws rather than basing it on the approval or disapproval of society, friends and even family.
Over and over we hear from the LGBT activists that it isn’t possible to love an LGBT person while disapproving of the lifestyle choices they make as a result of their feelings. Anyone who fails to approve the whole package hates them. Balderdash. People love those they disagree with all the time. It’s a total phony argument. It’s entirely true that all too often people DO disapprove of both the person and the disorder (That may or may not be true of the parents in this case, but that evidence is by no means clear here). That doesn’t mean it has to be that way. I daresay we all know and love an alcoholic somewhere, even if they are still drinking. God loves us that way. He doesn’t stop loving us when we sin. Or when we are inclined to sin - over and over.
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gracepoole
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I’m not interested in convincing transgender people that they’re “delusional.” I don’t think they are. But even if I did, I’m a teacher. And the Socratic method is by far the most successful approach in my experience. Outright snarky dismissal of what one firmly believes doesn’t lead that person to reconsider anything in my experience.
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Path_Finder
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dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2888476/Christian-parents-gay-son-died-overdose-forced-conversion-therapy-called-murderers-abusers-never-parents.html
Here is a similar story out of Washington state.
The child went to reparative therapy starting at 12 years old, at 18 years old, he ran away, became drug addicted, eventually did return home and eventually died of a drug overdose.
Now the parents want that kind of therapy banned.
If psychological therapy is not cruel, shock treatment, something like this, I’m not sure if it should be banned.
Here is a similar story out of Washington state.
The child went to reparative therapy starting at 12 years old, at 18 years old, he ran away, became drug addicted, eventually did return home and eventually died of a drug overdose.
Now the parents want that kind of therapy banned.
If psychological therapy is not cruel, shock treatment, something like this, I’m not sure if it should be banned.
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St_Francis
Guest
I would quibble with these statistics. Many surveys such as these on LGBTIQ people are not done as a poll would be done, with a crosssection of society or those involved, but are self-selecting. One such survey I read part of the details of said the news had been desseminated on forums dedicated to trnasgender people and other information sources for the community, as the author put it, and those who wanted to came and answered the questions.
One set of people who do not hang out in X community forums? People who are not happy with their situation, so there will be a bias towards the more optimistic view.
As to the income questions, part of all this is related to the work they tend to get into: women in general tend to get into fields which do not pay as much as fields men are more likely to get into. Considering the higher likelihood of a homosexual man’s going into a lower-paying field (music, art), along with the higher likelihood among the homosexual population as a whole of mental illness and other difficulties, it is not surprising that they often have lower incomes, for reasons which may well be apart from homosexuality.
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manualman
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I’m not aware of the Socratic method requiring abject surrender by the teacher until the student decides to change his mind and agree. That’s what referring to a transgender person using the incorrect gender pronoun really is. Or maybe I’m misunderstanding you.
If a male who thinks he is a female is NOT delusional, then is there such a thing as delusional then? That’s not snark, it’s just hard reasoning. It can be presented in an uncompromising manner that isn’t dismissive of the PERSON, just the incorrect reasoning. Yes, this does mean that some will refuse to admit to the possibility of rejection of ideas versus the rejection of the person and be personally offended anyways.
Good discussion though. I don’t think I fully agree with your approach, but I like your method of discussion. Thanks!
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SMGS127
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Not to mention the fact that 40% of homeless youth are LGBT, greatly outsurpassing their percentage of the population, which is closer to 4-5%.
williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/americas-shame-40-of-homeless-youth-are-lgbt-kids/
How anyone can throw their kid out of their house merely for being gay or transgender I have no idea. It is cruel and heartless.
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oldcatholicguy
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Lion-
If I wanted to continue our discussion I would do so on the public thread, not through PMs. The fact you ignored my indication that I was going to follow some good advice from another poster and drop out of this thread tells me all I need to know about how any PM based discussion would go. Don’t PM again.
Edit- And for the record I’m responding via the public thread instead of a PM because I have to maintain a level of charity, language, and manners on the public thread; not as an attempt to embarrass you or one up you. You don’t take an alcoholic to a bar at happier hour for a glass of water and you don’t offer someone with issues of being charitable and polite free reign to use a harsher tone.
If I wanted to continue our discussion I would do so on the public thread, not through PMs. The fact you ignored my indication that I was going to follow some good advice from another poster and drop out of this thread tells me all I need to know about how any PM based discussion would go. Don’t PM again.
Edit- And for the record I’m responding via the public thread instead of a PM because I have to maintain a level of charity, language, and manners on the public thread; not as an attempt to embarrass you or one up you. You don’t take an alcoholic to a bar at happier hour for a glass of water and you don’t offer someone with issues of being charitable and polite free reign to use a harsher tone.
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Lion_IRC
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Fine. 
Back to the issues then…
LGBTQ activist/columnist Dan Savage:
Parents of Trans Teen Who Ended Life Should Be Prosecuted.
advocate.com/politics/transgender/2015/01/03/mother-transgender-teen-who-killed-self-speaks-out
Back to the issues then…
LGBTQ activist/columnist Dan Savage:
Parents of Trans Teen Who Ended Life Should Be Prosecuted.
advocate.com/politics/transgender/2015/01/03/mother-transgender-teen-who-killed-self-speaks-out
Joshua Alcorns parents:
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Dawnia
Guest
Where are you getting that the kids are thrown out? I’m sure there are probably some, but I’m not seeing that as a factor in the article…
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