transgenderism

[edwest2]

The point being made was that it is now not classed as a disorder because of ‘gay activists’ pressuring the APA. If we are to take that argument at face value, then we have to accept that all organisations in all countries around the world (except where homosexuality is actually illegal and can be punished in some places by death) have similarly been pressured into not classing it as a disorder by some world wide network of gay activists.

Or we can take the sensible view that all civilised countries on the planet do not consider it a disorder because it isn’t.

Civilized? Based on what? Facts or assumptions? And where are the pre-1973 studies? All the reports that were published? So uncivilized countries consider it a disorder because someone decided that if your country does not agree, we will call you uncivilized. That’s not a valid argument.

Then your country suddenly becomes civilized if gay activists and legal bodies force a capitulation? And yes, constant pressure is being put on international bodies, especially any who have the power, to change another country.

Ed

 

[edwest2]

Scientists are already starting to make a distinction between sex and gender/gender identity. If someone is born with female genitals and female secondary sex characteristics, than that person’s sex is female. If that person identifies as a male, then that person’s gender/gender identity would be male.

apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/sexuality-definitions.pdf

And you don’t need to worry about people switching gender identities; the people who preform gender-reassignment surgery require someone requesting such surgery to really commit beforehand (for example, someone with a female sex who identifies as male will have to explain this to their family and friends beforehand and live as the gender they identify with for at least a year).

A birth defect, for example, is just that, and I’m speaking broadly. There are tests available now to determine certain things about a person’s chromosomes and hormones. Genital abnormalities do happen.

At the end of the day, gender identity is a fiction. The psychological warfare program is in its early stages right now. People are born male or female. Period. Of that small subset that show visible or genetic issues, they should be treated accordingly.

I was there in the late 1970s, early 1980s, when ‘sexual reassignment surgery’ began at the hospital where I worked. I sat down with two surgeons who explained the procedure, and all that needed to happen before the procedure. This fiction that anybody who doesn’t agree is a liar or anti-whatever will prove itself out.

Just read the first sentence of the following article:

wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120

Ed

 

[Strydersroom]

A birth defect, for example, is just that, and I’m speaking broadly. There are tests available now to determine certain things about a person’s chromosomes and hormones. Genital abnormalities do happen.

At the end of the day, gender identity is a fiction. The psychological warfare program is in its early stages right now. People are born male or female. Period. Of that small subset that show visible or genetic issues, they should be treated accordingly.

I was there in the late 1970s, early 1980s, when ‘sexual reassignment surgery’ began at the hospital where I worked. I sat down with two surgeons who explained the procedure, and all that needed to happen before the procedure. This fiction that anybody who doesn’t agree is a liar or anti-whatever will prove itself out.

Just read the first sentence of the following article:

wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120

Ed

Do you believe people are born gay or straight, period?

 

[Kielbasi]

This is what I read on reddit about transgendersim:

“The medical information out there is pretty clear on this. Sex =/= Gender =/= Sexuality.”

!

I sort of disagree on this. If a man sincerely thinks he’s a woman, he has a serious problem.

There are men out there who think they are Napoleon or Jesus Christ as well. Should we humor them the same way we do these “transwomen”?

 

[edwest2]

Do you believe people are born gay or straight, period?

The data tells me what is true. I do read some of the driest scientific reports. The Church also tells me what is true.

Ed

 

[Rau]

The data tells me what is true. I do read some of the driest scientific reports.

AFAIK, on this point, no firm conclusion can be drawn from the data as to the cause(s) of same sex attraction.

 

[edwest2]

I sort of disagree on this. If a man sincerely thinks he’s a woman, he has a serious problem.

There are men out there who think they are Napoleon or Jesus Christ as well. Should we humor them the same way we do these “transwomen”?

When I was hospitalized, I met such a person. I won’t tell who he thought he was but I talked to one of his family members and this was his best option. There are treatments out there for various conditions. I met another man who sincerely believed another person in his building was out to harm him for a good period of time. He decided to be treated.

Ed

 

[Rau]

There are men out there who think they are Napoleon or Jesus Christ as well. Should we humor them the same way we do these “transwomen”?

No one proposes “humouring” anybody. The distinction between a person believing they are (say) Napoleon, and suffering gender dysphoria, was addressed in post #95.

 

[edwest2]

AFAIK, on this point, no firm conclusion can be drawn from the data as to the cause(s) of same sex attraction.

Regarding SSA, yes. Transgenderism, or Gender Identity Disorder, threatens to wreak havoc on young, impressionable children. Some of whom are getting hormone treatments, while others are being taught that you can choose your gender. 71 and counting on Facebook.

Ed

 

[Rau]

Regarding SSA, yes. Transgenderism, or Gender Identity Disorder, threatens to wreak havoc on young, impressionable children. Some of whom are getting hormone treatments, while others are being taught that you can choose your gender. 71 and counting on Facebook.

I agree there are risks of failing to well manage some cases with very unfortunate outcomes, particularly with the young.

 

[edwest2]

I agree there are risks of failing to well manage some cases with very unfortunate outcomes, particularly with the young.

Like gay marriage before it, an aggressive marketing plan is in place. On a national level, laws and requirements that allow children to pick which bathroom they want to use. “Mom? I saw Billy go into the girls’ bathroom. Why did he do that? He’s a boy.” Billy’s teacher, on the other hand, has to do as he was told by the school.

The “fun” is just beginning. Confuse a generation and what is this based on? Settled science? I don’t think so.

Ed

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Civilized? Based on what? Facts or assumptions? And where are the pre-1973 studies? All the reports that were published? So uncivilized countries consider it a disorder because someone decided that if your country does not agree, we will call you uncivilized. That’s not a valid argument.

Then your country suddenly becomes civilized if gay activists and legal bodies force a capitulation? And yes, constant pressure is being put on international bodies, especially any who have the power, to change another country.

Ed

Would you say that if one recruits their sample of homosexuals exclusively from patients or former patients of a mental institution that it might bias a study involving mental illness and homosexuality?

 

[Bradski]

Then your country suddenly becomes civilized if gay activists and legal bodies force a capitulation? And yes, constant pressure is being put on international bodies…

OK. Here are some psychological associations in countries that agree with you. Countries that have resisted the ‘constant pressure’ by gay activists. Countries that stand tall in the fight against immorality. Countries that are so convinced that they are right, they will actually kill you if you perform a homosexual act.

That’s right. Some Catholic members of this forum, other people that you might know, friends, colleagues and maybe even family members would be in danger of their life if they honestly expressd their feelings to another person of the same sex in amy of these countries.

Sudanese Psychological Society, Iranian Society of Psychology, Saudi Psychiatric Association, Yemen Psychological Association, Afghanistan Psychological Association, The Pakistan Psychologists Association, Qatar Psychology Association, Nigerian Psychological Association, Emirates Psychological Assciation, Syrian Association for Mental Health, Iraq Education and Psychological Association…

There are many more where they still think it’s a disorder except that they won’t kill you for it. They just lock you up for a few years.

Now, I don’t know about you, but I don’t class any country that considers it reasonable to jail or even execute gay people to be civilised. I consider those actions to be barbaric. They will become civilsed not when their relevent associations stop classing homosexuality as a disroder, but when they start to treat gay people as equal members of society.

I’d like to think that you’d agree with that.

Now you might still want to pursue the argument that all organisations on the planet, with the exception of those listed above (plus others which I will name if required) have been infiltrated, hoodwinked or pressured into declassifying homosexuality as a disorder but I think that all reasonable people will see how flacid that argument is.

 

[edwest2]

Would you say that if one recruits their sample of homosexuals exclusively from patients or former patients of a mental institution that it might bias a study involving mental illness and homosexuality?

I get most of my information from the CDC, LGBT web sites, scientific reports and a few other sources. None of this is a mystery. Laws are being rapidly passed, reckless thinking and actions being given and done to children regarding a fake marketing term called “gender identity.” The average person either does not have the time or interest to take any action to research why this is happening. Too many just trust the media. After all, if they believe “the media would never lie about this or anything related,” then they agree, or ignore the issue(s) since it either doesn’t affect them or it makes them feel uncomfortable.

Media bias is pervasive. The approach uses very similar methods as military psychological warfare. Convince hearts and minds that everything being done is good. There’s nothing to worry about. The message is reinforced constantly by the media and the internet. However, in this particular case, the rapidity is greater than in the past. Astroturf are being employed. In the vast majority of the cases, the rest of the story is not discussed since contrary information would complicate reaching the objective: full compliance.

Ed

 

[Rau]

…
Now, I don’t know about you, but I don’t class any country that considers it reasonable to jail or even execute gay people to be civilised. I consider those actions to be barbaric. They will become civilsed not when their relevent associations stop classing homosexuality as a disroder, but when they start to treat gay people as equal members of society.

That’s accurate. The medical classification given to Homosexuality is not a sign of unjust treatment, but propensity for unjust treatment may drive those places to a particular classification.

The unwillingness to classify homosexuality in any way as a departure from ‘normal’ is a socially progressive thing - and its widespread as most social things in the modern age are. It is certainly not scientific. It’s not a sign in itself of greater civility. Homosexuality is only not a disorder for the reasons I’ve given before, not because there’s nothing amiss. And there would be nothing (necessarily) uncivilized in rethinking its medical classification.

 

[BornInMarch]

A birth defect, for example, is just that, and I’m speaking broadly. There are tests available now to determine certain things about a person’s chromosomes and hormones. Genital abnormalities do happen.

At the end of the day, gender identity is a fiction. The psychological warfare program is in its early stages right now. People are born male or female. Period. Of that small subset that show visible or genetic issues, they should be treated accordingly.

I was there in the late 1970s, early 1980s, when ‘sexual reassignment surgery’ began at the hospital where I worked. I sat down with two surgeons who explained the procedure, and all that needed to happen before the procedure. This fiction that anybody who doesn’t agree is a liar or anti-whatever will prove itself out.

Just read the first sentence of the following article:

wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120

Ed

I couldn’t read the source because I don’t have a subscription.

 

[Rau]

I couldn’t read the source because I don’t have a subscription.

The author is a well-known doctor/specialist. I suspect the statements in the article draw from his own experience.

 

[edwest2]

I couldn’t read the source because I don’t have a subscription.

Here are the excerpts:

lifesitenews.com/news/former-johns-hopkins-head-psychiatrist-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solutio

Ed

 

[edwest2]

OK. Here are some psychological associations in countries that agree with you. Countries that have resisted the ‘constant pressure’ by gay activists. Countries that stand tall in the fight against immorality. Countries that are so convinced that they are right, they will actually kill you if you perform a homosexual act.

That’s right. Some Catholic members of this forum, other people that you might know, friends, colleagues and maybe even family members would be in danger of their life if they honestly expressd their feelings to another person of the same sex in amy of these countries.

Sudanese Psychological Society, Iranian Society of Psychology, Saudi Psychiatric Association, Yemen Psychological Association, Afghanistan Psychological Association, The Pakistan Psychologists Association, Qatar Psychology Association, Nigerian Psychological Association, Emirates Psychological Assciation, Syrian Association for Mental Health, Iraq Education and Psychological Association…

There are many more where they still think it’s a disorder except that they won’t kill you for it. They just lock you up for a few years.

Now, I don’t know about you, but I don’t class any country that considers it reasonable to jail or even execute gay people to be civilised. I consider those actions to be barbaric. They will become civilsed not when their relevent associations stop classing homosexuality as a disroder, but when they start to treat gay people as equal members of society.

I’d like to think that you’d agree with that.

Now you might still want to pursue the argument that all organisations on the planet, with the exception of those listed above (plus others which I will name if required) have been infiltrated, hoodwinked or pressured into declassifying homosexuality as a disorder but I think that all reasonable people will see how flacid that argument is.

Well, there are lists, maps and target countries named. This isn’t about rights but behaviors. For most people, if you engage in certain behaviors, you get arrested or fined, and sometimes, the death penalty. In the United States.

No, it’s not about human rights, it’s about sex rights. Legalize my sexual behavior, and the new added twist twist of legalize my “sexual expression” like passing bathroom laws. We all know the earth would explode if such laws were not in place today.

So what do LGBTQI people want? To be treated like human beings? I’m all for that. But that’s not what they want. They want all the countries on their target list (which I can provide) to make sodomy legal and we all know what happened in the US. Get rid of sodomy laws - job one. Job two: legalize gay marriage.

Just like on The Advocate web site which was posting photos of men and women who were openly this or that. One women was the first bisexual to get some high-powered position. With all due respect, what does her bisexuality have to do with anything? Could I point out a bisexual in a crowd? 100% no.

So again, sexual rights, not ‘human rights’ in regards to LGBTQI persons. Everyone should be treated in a civil manner but if overturning sodomy laws is job one, what are we really talking about?

Ed

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

I get most of my information from the CDC, LGBT web sites, scientific reports and a few other sources. None of this is a mystery. Laws are being rapidly passed, reckless thinking and actions being given and done to children regarding a fake marketing term called “gender identity.” The average person either does not have the time or interest to take any action to research why this is happening. Too many just trust the media. After all, if they believe “the media would never lie about this or anything related,” then they agree, or ignore the issue(s) since it either doesn’t affect them or it makes them feel uncomfortable.

Media bias is pervasive. The approach uses very similar methods as military psychological warfare. Convince hearts and minds that everything being done is good. There’s nothing to worry about. The message is reinforced constantly by the media and the internet. However, in this particular case, the rapidity is greater than in the past. Astroturf are being employed. In the vast majority of the cases, the rest of the story is not discussed since contrary information would complicate reaching the objective: full compliance.

Ed

That not only fails to answer the question it fails to even address it.