transgenderism

[ricmat]

I have never known what “equal treatment” means.

The over weight people are not treated as thin people.
The elderly are not treated as the young.
The young are not given the respect as the elderly.
Those with Down Syndrome are killed in the womb.

The short people are made fun of.
The tall people are made fun of.
People with red hair are made fun of.
People with tattoos are criticized
Country folk are called Red Necks.

There are Catholic jokes.
There a Mormon jokes.

I personally do not know a person who does not have some problem that makes it difficult to live the kind of life that they would want to have.

My grand child was killed in a car accident.
Babies were cruicified is Iraq.
Children are starving through out the world.
Slavery in the sex trade is a multi billion dollar industry.
Many people are dying of cancer.

Somehow I just can’t see why the world must revolve around the problems that the often very well off LGBTQ community has to face.

Excellent

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

No, this is not the case for all who *disagree with *gender ideology. Some or even many see it as a continuation of the dismantling of social foundations which began with acceptance of artificial birth control and increased ease in divorce.

For the clergy whole have railed against it, it is as I discussed previously.

Do you really not understand the difference between fixing a broken body and mutilating a healthy one?

When the body is discordant with itself (the brain is part of the body), how is harmonizing it mutilation?

I don’t understand the difference between taking money to mutilate one body or another to relieve psychological distress, no. Why would it not be ok to cause an attacker to be in the same state as his victim, esp if that would relieve the psychological distress which he caused?

Because it wouldn’t actually cure any psychological distress.

How is gender not a made-up thing?

Everything that isn’t physical is “made up” including hope.

To which the reply is frequently the digression away from TG to those whose genes are actually disrupted. You know what they mean…

Is the brain part of the body?

Not really; all we have a small amount of evidence of is that TG brains seem closer to the opposite sex’s than usual or average, and even these observations may be biased, as has happened in other tests of this sort.

Moreover, correlation does not equal causation. Given the responsiveness or plasticity of the brain, determining the cause may be very difficult, and begs the question ofwhether the state of the brain warrants the vast medical machinery used against the body given all that we do not know?

How much evidence would it take you to find satisfactory?

Some parts of the brain are plastic, some aren’t.

How much of the so-called “transgender” psychological distress is caused by the modern culture’s emasculation and effeminization of the male?

I recommend Fr. Ripperger’s lecture, “How to Raise a Man.” Google it; it will only cost you a decade of the rosary.

Given it long predates that most likely none.

I dont care enough to look it up, but last I read the post op suicides and such were rather high… as in it does not really help.

Like the bipolar guy who chimed in mental illness is just that.

I dont mind labels persay or trestments, but there are two types of Bipolar for example. Those who recognize there is an issue witb themselves, and those who use it for gain and demand special treatment. And before we diagnosed bipolar if someone was and they didn’t acknowledge they were wrong we called then a jerk/witch.

Same logic applies, a transgender is in the wrong like the bipolar. They can seek to be right, or demand special treatment. In our society special treatment makes for a good life and possible advantageous lawsuits… in a morally devoid world, do you want to be righted or seek special treatment selfishly??? I think the leanings of our society toward bipolars, restless legs, sad people and trans speaks volumes.

Those numbers are only for those who transitioned over a quarter century ago, for those after 1979 it isn’t an issue.

For a lot of transgender people hormones are excellent at improving and stabilizing mood.

 

[edwest2]

We as a society have not really dealt well with mental illness. In fact mentally ill people have not been treated really well at all. Mental illness is poorly understood.

We should do better than say that transgender people are going against Church doctrine and leaving it at that. Question is how do we as the Church help them other than just preaching at them?

Having been mentally ill for decades, I disagree. The medications available today are not a cure-all but they are more symptom specific than those from a decade ago. After being hospitalized twice and ending up in the Emergency Room not long ago, my medications were reviewed and a few changes were made. More media coverage is being given to people about the more common forms of mental illness. Recent research has uncovered more and more about how the brain functions, in real time.

I was there, at a major hospital, when Sexual Reassignment Surgery began there. How much patient follow-up is there? The assumption here is that the surgery is the end of the story. Few bring up the negative or unhelpful outcomes.

I think the public in general would be bettered served if the issue of Transgender involved studying the issue in depth. Instead, reading the LGBT literature, the ongoing message is ‘hate’ and ‘bigotry.’ That’s it? The APA, after years of lobbying from LGBT activists, changes its diagnosis of Gender Identity Disorder and then court orders are issued regarding who gets to use which bathroom? I think the Church is not the problem here.

Ed

 

[anonymous_in_fl]

Who remembers when frontal lobotomies were all the rage in psychiatry?
Psychosurgery was supposed to be the new advanced modern solution for mental problems.

Fast forward to the present: We would be astounded if medicine did that today. Because time proved that lobotomies were not solving a problem, but instead creating a different one which was worse than the initial problem!

Fifty years from now, we may very well be appalled that “sexual reassignment surgery” was even offered to people as a “treatment”!

 

[o_mlly]

… We should do better than say that transgender people are going against Church doctrine and leaving it at that. Question is how do we as the Church help them other than just preaching at them?

We should also speak out against the community’s ordering us to cooperate in evil by making us pay for the immoral act of mutilating a transgender person just as we speak out against abortion on the same principle.

 

[edwest2]

Who remembers when frontal lobotomies were all the rage in psychiatry?
Psychosurgery was supposed to be the new advanced modern solution for mental problems.

Fast forward to the present: We would be astounded if medicine did that today. Because time proved that lobotomies were not solving a problem, but instead creating a different one which was worse than the initial problem!

Fifty years from now, we may very well be appalled that “sexual reassignment surgery” was even offered to people as a “treatment”!

You’re changing the subject. We don’t know what’s going to happen even 5 years from now. I follow new medications entering clinical trials for a number of reasons. I had a friend who responded well to an “experimental” drug.

Lobotomies are still being done but go under a different name today. They are used only as a last resort in certain cases. And since I’m not allowed to give out medical advice here, I won’t name anything.

Ed

 

[anonymous_in_fl]

So sorry, I did not think I was changing the subject/topic.

Just trying to point out how “new” treatments and theories often do not stand the test of time.

Transgenderism seems to be one of the “newest” and sexual reassignment surgery (which in many cases is not reversible) seems to be touted as a “treatment”.

Mea culpa

 

[edwest2]

So sorry, I did not think I was changing the subject/topic.

Just trying to point out how “new” treatments and theories often do not stand the test of time.

Transgenderism seems to be one of the “newest” and sexual reassignment surgery (which in many cases is not reversible) seems to be touted as a “treatment”.

Mea culpa

That’s alright. I think the issue is leaping before looking. My example is the APA succumbs to lobbying by a special interest group to order people around. That is not ‘social justice.’ Social justice means you have a better reason than lobbying to order people around, and “accelerating acceptance,” as I’ve read on LGBT sites.

Best,
Ed

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Having been mentally ill for decades, I disagree. The medications available today are not a cure-all but they are more symptom specific than those from a decade ago. After being hospitalized twice and ending up in the Emergency Room not long ago, my medications were reviewed and a few changes were made. More media coverage is being given to people about the more common forms of mental illness. Recent research has uncovered more and more about how the brain functions, in real time.

I was there, at a major hospital, when Sexual Reassignment Surgery began there. How much patient follow-up is there? The assumption here is that the surgery is the end of the story. Few bring up the negative or unhelpful outcomes.

I think the public in general would be bettered served if the issue of Transgender involved studying the issue in depth. Instead, reading the LGBT literature, the ongoing message is ‘hate’ and ‘bigotry.’ That’s it? The APA, after years of lobbying from LGBT activists, changes its diagnosis of Gender Identity Disorder and then court orders are issued regarding who gets to use which bathroom? I think the Church is not the problem here.

Ed

Follow up has massively improved.

Who remembers when frontal lobotomies were all the rage in psychiatry?
Psychosurgery was supposed to be the new advanced modern solution for mental problems.

Fast forward to the present: We would be astounded if medicine did that today. Because time proved that lobotomies were not solving a problem, but instead creating a different one which was worse than the initial problem!

Fifty years from now, we may very well be appalled that “sexual reassignment surgery” was even offered to people as a “treatment”!

SRS works and it works in a rather straightforward way on always consenting patients.

Lobotomies were almost always done on patients who did not consent and it rapidly stopped except in rare circumstances with the advent of anti-psychotics because they were recognized as clearly better. Lobotomies also had known and quite grave psychological side effects whereas none have been documented for transgender people.

There really isn’t much comparison other than both are surgery.

 

[edwest2]

Follow up has massively improved.

SRS works and it works in a rather straightforward way on always consenting patients.

Lobotomies were almost always done on patients who did not consent and it rapidly stopped except in rare circumstances with the advent of anti-psychotics because they were recognized as clearly better. Lobotomies also had known and quite grave psychological side effects whereas none have been documented for transgender people.

There really isn’t much comparison other than both are surgery.

I disagree.

cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

Ed

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

I disagree.

cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

Ed

This is the guy who wanted to stop SRS so he commissioned a study to prove it was bad, when it showed the opposite of what he wanted he claimed it said what he wanted anyway. He then shut it down. Now he claims that a Swedish study says what it doesn’t. The study shows that those who had surgery before 1989 had significantly high suicide attempts than the general population, but the cohort in the study who had surgery after 1989 did not. He a) misunderstands the study, b) is maliciously claiming it says what it doesn’t to slander people, c) is too proud to admit he made a mistake, d) is a partisan hack who is lying because he thinks it for the best or e) had money bought his consciousness. Here is the author of the study being interviewed

Williams: Before I contacted you for this interview, were you aware of the way your work was being misrepresented?

Dhejne: Yes! It’s very frustrating! I’ve even seen professors use my work to support ridiculous claims. I’ve often had to respond myself by commenting on articles, speaking with journalists, and talking about this problem at conferences. The Huffington Post wrote an article about the way my research is misrepresented. At the same time, I know of instances where ethical researchers and clinicians have used this study to expand and improve access to trans health care and impact systems of anti-trans oppression.

Of course trans medical and psychological care is efficacious. A 2010 meta-analysis confirmed by studies thereafter show that medical gender confirming interventions reduces gender dysphoria.

 

[edwest2]

This is the guy who wanted to stop SRS so he commissioned a study to prove it was bad, when it showed the opposite of what he wanted he claimed it said what he wanted anyway. He then shut it down. Now he claims that a Swedish study says what it doesn’t. The study shows that those who had surgery before 1989 had significantly high suicide attempts than the general population, but the cohort in the study who had surgery after 1989 did not. He a) misunderstands the study, b) is maliciously claiming it says what it doesn’t to slander people, c) is too proud to admit he made a mistake, d) is a partisan hack who is lying because he thinks it for the best or e) had money bought his consciousness. Here is the author of the study being interviewed

Yes, I read the discussion with the author of that study before I wrote what I wrote. It’s too bad that this “he said, she said” thing is going on. I also read a list of all the corporations that are helping to change public perceptions of LGBT persons by donating money. I’ve also read a few articles by the heads of corporations that want to “accelerate acceptance.”

A reading of the media record is showing an ongoing psychological warfare operation.

Ed

 

[anonymous_in_fl]

My 2 cents: I am sticking with Pope Francis on this one regarding his speaking out against “gender ideology” ! :twocents: :yup:

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Yes, I read the discussion with the author of that study before I wrote what I wrote. It’s too bad that this “he said, she said” thing is going on. I also read a list of all the corporations that are helping to change public perceptions of LGBT persons by donating money. I’ve also read a few articles by the heads of corporations that want to “accelerate acceptance.”

A reading of the media record is showing an ongoing psychological warfare operation.

Ed

Having read the actual study his claims are twisting the data and unsubstantiated.

 

[edwest2]

Having read the actual study his claims are twisting the data and unsubstantiated.

Even if that is the case, accepting Transgender persons into everyday situations is being forced on the people by courts and lawsuits are being filed to stop this. That said, the goal is to market Transgender Persons like any product. However, the selling points are in dispute. There is a lot of money and a lot of people behind a project to convince the American people that Transgender is good. And the marketing push will focus on presenting this message on all media so that the numbers go up, pass the 51% “of all Americans” mark, at which point, these “all Americans” will get patted on the back and the marketing will continue in order to push those numbers even higher. Meanwhile, kids in public schools will get the marketing as well so they grow up thinking surgery cures a disturbance and that’s OK.

That’s called ‘social engineering.’ It hasn’t had any success in the last 50 years. It’s created a lot of damage, especially to families and to the social order itself. That is called “success” by those who wanted it this way but there are those who don’t want children to adopt an “identity” long before they are emotionally and intellectually mature enough to understand what that means.

What’s wrong for you may be right for me has been the battle cry. Cultural relativism.

Pope Benedict

“We are moving toward a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one’s own ego and one’s own desires. The church must defend itself against threats such as “radical individualism” and “vague religious mysticism”. [emphasis added]”

Ed

 

[HelenRose]

Even if that is the case, accepting Transgender persons into everyday situations is being forced on the people by courts and lawsuits are being filed to stop this. That said, the goal is to market Transgender Persons like any product. However, the selling points are in dispute. There is a lot of money and a lot of people behind a project to convince the American people that Transgender is good. And the marketing push will focus on presenting this message on all media so that the numbers go up, pass the 51% “of all Americans” mark, at which point, these “all Americans” will get patted on the back and the marketing will continue in order to push those numbers even higher. Meanwhile, kids in public schools will get the marketing as well so they grow up thinking surgery cures a disturbance and that’s OK.

That’s called ‘social engineering.’ It hasn’t had any success in the last 50 years. It’s created a lot of damage, especially to families and to the social order itself. That is called “success” by those who wanted it this way but there are those who don’t want children to adopt an “identity” long before they are emotionally and intellectually mature enough to understand what that means.

What’s wrong for you may be right for me has been the battle cry. Cultural relativism.

Pope Benedict

“We are moving toward a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one’s own ego and one’s own desires. The church must defend itself against threats such as “radical individualism” and “vague religious mysticism”. [emphasis added]”

Ed

I believe that you are right. I think our only weapon is learning how to be good men and women, good mothers and fathers, good daughters and sons. Our example of living our lives as decent good men and women will carry the Church through.

That fact is: the rules of God are not made to please God but to insure the stability and happiness of individuals and society. As Christ said, “The Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath.”

These rules that are being broken within our society will have the consequence of pain and sorrow not only for the individual but for society at large. If Christian men and women can be true to these rules with love and charity, truth will win out. Truth always wins out in the end. It is going to be a tough time - not so much for the Church but for the people who are caught up in this insanity and will be badly harmed by it.

 

[edwest2]

Thank you. I was always taught to be good, to avoid the bad. Let’s continue to encourage each other to be the good. To reform society to what is true. Truth is truth, today and tomorrow.

Best,
Ed

 

[St_Francis]

For the clergy whole have railed against it, it is as I discussed previously.

I couldn’t find that discussion in this thread, so it’s difficult to respond to your comment.

When the body is discordant with itself (the brain is part of the body), how is harmonizing it mutilation?

Any way you look at it, it’s a mutilation, as is all major surgery involving the removal of organs. The question is whether this is necessary? Or whether a different approach might not serve at least as well. But we will never know another approach as long as SRS is seen as the only solution.

Because it wouldn’t actually cure any psychological distress.

How do you know?

Everything that isn’t physical is “made up” including hope.

Not so. But gender in this respect comes up only as an explanation for a condition in which reality and thoughts are not in alignment.

Is the brain part of the body?

Are our thoughts only part of our body?

How much evidence would it take you to find satisfactory?

It’s not just how much, but what kind.

Some parts of the brain are plastic, some aren’t.

We used to think none of the brain was plastic; now we know some is. So I don’t think we know enough to say anything for sure.

We have a small number of studies showing that the brains of people who believe themselves to be of the opposite sex have some brain features which fall bear or on the part of the spectrum more associated with the target sex. Whether this is a result or a cause of the condition, or whether it is even related, is all unknown.

So, yes,I’d like to see better evidence, more scientific-like evidence.

=Given it long predates that most likely none.

Those numbers are only for those who transitioned over a quarter century ago, for those after 1979 it isn’t an issue.

For a lot of transgender people hormones are excellent at improving and stabilizing mood.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

I couldn’t find that discussion in this thread, so it’s difficult to respond to your comment.

“From everything I’ve read the gender ideology they attack is the third wave feminist kind where they claim that all psychological differences between males and females is nurture and that men and women are interchangeable such as in marriage. Coincidentally, those people tend to vehemently hate transgender people.”

Any way you look at it, it’s a mutilation, as is all major surgery involving the removal of organs. The question is whether this is necessary? Or whether a different approach might not serve at least as well. But we will never know another approach as long as SRS is seen as the only solution.

For a psychological treatment you’d basically have to take a sledgehammer to their mind and honestly SRS is much less damaging than a lobotomy done to deliberately destroy.

How do you know?

While I haven’t been paralyzed from an attack I have had true heinous things done to me (which I don’t want to talk about) and honestly while having the same thing done to the perpetrator would like have made me feel like a karmic serving of justice had been carried out it wouldn’t have helped the psychological anguish I suffered

Not so. But gender in this respect comes up only as an explanation for a condition in which reality and thoughts are not in alignment.

Gender identity doesn’t matter that much to a person whose gender identity matches that which people expect them to perform.

Are our thoughts only part of our body?

You will have to expand on what you mean before I can answer that.

It’s not just how much, but what kind.

What kind would you find satisfactory?

We used to think none of the brain was plastic; now we know some is. So I don’t think we know enough to say anything for sure.

We have a small number of studies showing that the brains of people who believe themselves to be of the opposite sex have some brain features which fall bear or on the part of the spectrum more associated with the target sex. Whether this is a result or a cause of the condition, or whether it is even related, is all unknown.

So, yes,I’d like to see better evidence, more scientific-like evidence.

We have known for decades the brain can partially rebuild itself following trauma such as amputation.

 

[Brygida]

I, too, believe “transgenderism” is a type or form of mental illness. I believe it is some what akin to Body Dysmorphic Disorder. It also seems to be similar to how persons with anorexia who are emaciated still verbalize they are “fat” and “feel fat” and even see themselves as “fat” when looking in a mirror.

If I may to provide clarification, Body Dysmorphic Disorder is closely related to eating disorders and obsessive compulsive disorders, but is quite distinct from gender dysphoria. Those individuals with BDD focus on imagined or minor and unnoticeable physical defects that become focused and obsession. You are correct to identify weight and perception of “fat” when looking in mirror as symptomatic.

However, transgendered individuals generally do not see a false image and develop obsession over imagined or minor imperfection. They see themselves with physical clarity, but experience a cognitive dissonance between their outward appearance and their inner perception of gender identity.

While BDD is often successfully addressed with Cognitive Behavioral Approaches, medications, and individual and family therapies, gender dysphoria is unresponsive to such techniques.