transgenderism

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You don’t feel that Christianity had an impact on social norms in the US? Not today, but I’m talking about like back in the days where girls are not allowed to wear pants, for example. You can’t find “thou shall not wear pants if female” in the bible, but a lot of people believed it was a sin.
I don’t think you are sufficiently knowledgeable about history to make accurate claims about the impact made by Christianity upon cultures and the impact that cultures made upon Christianity.

Today there are “Christians” who claim abortion is “okay” with God, just as you would find past “Christians” who found some kind of essential connection between not wearing pants and being female.
Saudi Arabia for example, is an easy example to look at (Islam).
Again, you need to separate out the ethnic and cultural trappings of Islamic peoples from what is taught in, say, the Qur’an. Wearing the niqab, for example, isn’t required anywhere in the Qur’an, yet in Saudi Arabia…

Which came first the cultural trappings or the religious teachings. Some will continue trying to make the case that the two are inseparable, but that just demonstrates a lack of scholarly endeavor on their part.
 
I don’t think you are sufficiently knowledgeable about history to make accurate claims about the impact made by Christianity upon cultures and the impact that cultures made upon Christianity.

Today there are “Christians” who claim abortion is “okay” with God, just as you would find past “Christians” who found some kind of essential connection between not wearing pants and being female.

Again, you need to separate out the ethnic and cultural trappings of Islamic peoples from what is taught in, say, the Qur’an. Wearing the niqab, for example, isn’t required anywhere in the Qur’an, yet in Saudi Arabia…

Which came first the cultural trappings or the religious teachings. Some will continue trying to make the case that the two are inseparable, but that just demonstrates a lack of scholarly endeavor on their part.
Like I have been saying, i have been talking about the past. Religion DID affect people’s opinions on homosexuality/transgenderism. If the Europeans that came over to US and founded it were all pagans, you don’t agree that the social norms in the US would be a lot different?

Pagan societies in the biblical times were a lot different compared to the Jewish societies. Maybe it’s because God literally told them how to behave?

About Saudi Arabia, while the niqab isn’t supposed to be enforced, Muslims there THINK that Allah wants them ro wear it. If islam never existed, do you think females there would be forced to wear it?

Religion was not the ONLY thing that played a role in gender stereotypes. But it is a factor that played a role in the ‘conservative’ America when it comes to people being strictly against homosexuality and transgenderism.

Social norms like men working in the fields all day while the woman stays at home is obviously more biological than anything to do with religion. But gender stereotypes are more than that.
 
Like I have been saying, i have been talking about the past. Religion DID affect people’s opinions on homosexuality/transgenderism. If the Europeans that came over to US and founded it were all pagans, you don’t agree that the social norms in the US would be a lot different?

Pagan societies in the biblical times were a lot different compared to the Jewish societies. Maybe it’s because God literally told them how to behave?

About Saudi Arabia, while the niqab isn’t supposed to be enforced, Muslims there THINK that Allah wants them ro wear it. If islam never existed, do you think females there would be forced to wear it?

Religion was not the ONLY thing that played a role in gender stereotypes. But it is a factor that played a role in the ‘conservative’ America when it comes to people being strictly against homosexuality and transgenderism.

Social norms like men working in the fields all day while the woman stays at home is obviously more biological than anything to do with religion. But gender stereotypes are more than that.
I don’t find homosexuality to be such a good example for your point. Sexual relationships with persons of the same sex would seem to be - objectively - aberrant. Certainly religion may add to that conviction.
 
I don’t find homosexuality to be such a good example for your point. Sexual relationships with persons of the same sex would seem to be - objectively - aberrant. Certainly religion may add to that conviction.
It seems to be objectively aberrant because it’s against nature, so technically yes. But i used it since we know pagans used to have orgies, and there’s historical proof that homosexuality was accepted in certain societies, there were male sex slaves for other men/masters. It wasn’t really that condemned as opposed to religious communities 🙂
 
It seems to be objectively aberrant because it’s against nature, so technically yes. But i used it since we know pagans used to have orgies, and there’s historical proof that homosexuality was accepted in certain societies, there were male sex slaves for other men/masters. It wasn’t really that condemned as opposed to religious communities 🙂
Care here; yes but they were not integrated into family life as they are demanding now. Otfen too they were set apart as wise men and women

This is not "acceptance " as we know it, They were not demanding marriage and children … they di dnot demand or get “equality” . Sure they had a role to play … but not an equal or honoured one
 
This is what I read on reddit about transgendersim:

“The medical information out there is pretty clear on this. Sex =/= Gender =/= Sexuality.”

Of course this person is part of the LGBT community so go figure.

What immediately came to mind was Caitlyn Jenner. Thinks he’s he’s female, but doesn’t consider himself a homosexual.

It just appears that those in the LGBT community are trying real hard to normalize this. The “more acceptance, less ignorance” was bandied as well when talking about the full acceptance aka normalization of transgenders.

So sex, gender and sexuality are non-related spheres and our understanding of sex & sexuality has been wrong all along. Because don’t you worry - “medical information” shall prevail on the side of the transgenders. Apparently we’ve been looking at this issue like when we thought the earth was flat! We’ve been wrong! Transgenders are our Galileos!
It is good that the Magisterium is not accepting the mythical “transgender person” as real, by the
Magisterium claiming the mythical “homosexual person” real with no rational explanation it makes
the Magisterium appear hypocritical the Magisterium should correct it’s error of accepting the
mythical “homosexual person” as real and get off this slippery slope.

God bless
 
Care here; yes but they were not integrated into family life as they are demanding now. Otfen too they were set apart as wise men and women

This is not "acceptance " as we know it, They were not demanding marriage and children … they di dnot demand or get “equality” . Sure they had a role to play … but not an equal or honoured one
So could we please start with some honesty here. In the many state referendums approved by voters to amend their state constitutions, voters not only rejected same sex marriage, they voted against “ANY” recognition of gay partnerships by forbidding civil unions or any similar legal rights for gay couples. Many gay people never dreamed they would see a decision like Obergefell in their lifetimes, but because Christians blocked any rights/recognition for same sex couples, what choice did they have but to push for same sex marriage? None.

Gay people exist. What do you want or expect them to do? Should they just accept the mistreatment they have so often experienced for the sake of upholding traditional marriage? Why is it that Christians define their own religious freedom in terms of the ability to deny rights to those who want legal protections precisely because of the oppression and mistreatment they’ve experienced by this so called “loving” community? Have you ever considered the fact that they have no intention of attacking Christianity, that it is you that has defined any push for rights to protect their relationships as an attack against Christianity? In other words, the only way they could accept not being seen as attacking the traditional family is to accept second class status, or more accurately after all of the amendments that were passed banning any recognition, they were just suppose to accept no protections at all.
 
…In the many state referendums approved by voters to amend their state constitutions, voters not only rejected same sex marriage, they voted against “ANY” recognition of gay partnerships by forbidding civil unions or any similar legal rights for gay couples. Many gay people never dreamed they would see a decision like Obergefell in their lifetimes, but because Christians blocked any rights/recognition for same sex couples, what choice did they have but to push for same sex marriage? None.
There is no “Christian” basis to “block” recognition of rights for persons wishing to live together. But there is a basis to reject SSM or arrangements which are designed as marriage-look-alikes. There is a basis to reject a wholesale redefinition of the meaning of marriage and family. I oppose SSM but would fully support an appropriate legal accommodation (“protection” if you prefer) that meets the reasonable needs of persons choosing to live together. But such arrangements would necessarily not be assumed to be sexual in nature; they’d be as equally open to a pair of elderly sisters wishing to share a home and look after each other as they would be to a gay couple. I’m not that familiar with the US history, but in other jurisdictions, civil unions and the like were typically “marriage-like” eg. they forbid two sibling forming such a union.
Why is it that Christians define their own religious freedom in terms of the ability to deny rights to those who want legal protections…
They don’t. Appropriate legal protections for others present no difficulty - as I indicated above.
In other words, the only way they could accept not be seen as attacking the traditional family is to accept second class status, or more accurately after all of the amendments that were passed banning any recognition, they were just suppose to accept no protections at all.
Not at all. It’s not a matter of “second class”, it’s just a matter of recognising that relationships may be marriage or they may be something else. It seems the community (the majority) want to redefine marriage - that’s the democratic right, but no one is required to favour that course.
 
There is no “Christian” basis to “block” recognition of rights for persons wishing to live together. But there is a basis to reject SSM or arrangements which are designed as marriage-look-alikes. There is a basis to reject a wholesale redefinition of the meaning of marriage and family. I oppose SSM but would fully support an appropriate legal accommodation (“protection” if you prefer) that meets the reasonable needs of persons choosing to live together. But such arrangements would necessarily not be assumed to be sexual in nature; they’d be as equally open to a pair of elderly sisters wishing to share a home and look after each other as they would be to a gay couple. I’m not that familiar with the US history, but in other jurisdictions, civil unions and the like were typically “marriage-like” eg. they forbid two sibling forming such a union.

They don’t. Appropriate legal protections for others present no difficulty - as I indicated above.

Not at all. It’s not a matter of “second class”, it’s just a matter of recognising that relationships may be marriage or they may be something else. It seems the community (the majority) want to redefine marriage - that’s the democratic right, but no one is required to favour that course.
But that’s what they need to be is “marriage like” because that is exactly the kind of rights and protections that gay people needed and were denied. As has been stated before, siblings already have a legally established next of kin relationship, which is why the few that are in the particular situation you describe aren’t fighting for rights that are already provided to them, but fine. Voters/legislators were not bounded to restrict the these rights to gay couples, but clearly they did not want gay people to have these rights. So please, again, a little honesty here. These amendments were about denying rights to gay couples.
 
But that’s what they need to be is “marriage like” because that is exactly the kind of rights and protections that gay people needed and were denied. As has been stated before, siblings already have a legally established next of kin relationship, which is why the few that are in the particular situation you describe aren’t fighting for rights that are already provided to them, but fine. Voters/legislators were not bounded to restrict the these rights to gay couples, but clearly they did not want gay people to have these rights. So please, again, a little honesty here. These amendments were about denying rights to gay couples.
Whether or not the rights are similar to those in marriage is not the point. The point is that the relationship of two men (IMHO) can’t be marriage, nor should it deserve recognition and rights because it’s sexual. And if two men deserve a set of legal rights, then that’s fine by me. But I can’t imagine why it would be necessary to forbid siblings from the same thing, if it’s not because the relationship is understood to be sexual. And why does sex elevate the relationship of two men to something of special meaning to the State? The dishonesty is in pretending that two men in a sexual relationship is the same as marriage.
 
Whether or not the rights are similar to those in marriage is not the point. The point is that the relationship of two men (IMHO) can’t be marriage, nor should it deserve recognition and rights because it’s sexual. And if two men deserve a set of legal rights, then that’s fine by me. But I can’t imagine why it would be necessary to forbid siblings from the same thing, if it’s not because the relationship is understood to be sexual. And why does sex elevate the relationship of two men to something of special meaning to the State? The dishonesty is in pretending that two men in a sexual relationship is the same as marriage.
Why is a relationship between a man and a woman who vigorously contracept thwarting conception a relationship of special meaning to the state?
 
It is the mutilation of the human body, presumably meeting the three conditions – therefore, it is a mortal sin. Lord have mercy.
The Church has **not **stated that such surgery does not serve a medical purpose (which would mean it’s not mutilation).
 
So could we please start with some honesty here. In the many state referendums approved by voters to amend their state constitutions, voters not only rejected same sex marriage, they voted against “ANY” recognition of gay partnerships by forbidding civil unions or any similar legal rights for gay couples. Many gay people never dreamed they would see a decision like Obergefell in their lifetimes, but because Christians blocked any rights/recognition for same sex couples, what choice did they have but to push for same sex marriage? None.

Gay people exist. What do you want or expect them to do? Should they just accept the mistreatment they have so often experienced for the sake of upholding traditional marriage? Why is it that Christians define their own religious freedom in terms of the ability to deny rights to those who want legal protections precisely because of the oppression and mistreatment they’ve experienced by this so called “loving” community? Have you ever considered the fact that they have no intention of attacking Christianity, that it is you that has defined any push for rights to protect their relationships as an attack against Christianity? In other words, the only way they could accept not being seen as attacking the traditional family is to accept second class status, or more accurately after all of the amendments that were passed banning any recognition, they were just suppose to accept no protections at all.
Gay people could have legally asked for certain rights but why “gay marriage”? The Catholic Church has always been against unjust discrimination, but they created a situation where first, they went to the ballot box in states and asked the public to give them one to one, equal to heterosexual marriage rights. That did not go well. It was voted down twice in California. After this, the verdict was not enough money and advertising. One gay marriage advocate site made it very clear: “civil unions” were not acceptable because it would make gay people second-class citizens.

Then, the Supreme Court steps in. What were heterosexual people to think when the next generation of human beings depends on heterosexuals? What was the Court’s rationale? I recall watching on TV as two women were walking out after getting a “marriage license,” and one said, “Now, we’re equal.” Equal in what way?

Why are kids in public schools being given story books like King and King that shows two men picking each other for marriage?

I worked with LGBT people in the past. We got along. We did our jobs. I saw an employee at the hospital where I worked get surgery to go from being a woman to appearing like a man. There was no outcry. She just kept doing her job.

Anyone who mistreats anyone should be held accountable, not the entire country. I spent a lot of time with ER patients and asking a patient if they were LGBT was not one of the questions. At any Church, no one is standing by the door asking anyone what their sexual orientation is as they enter. All are welcome.

Gay people have had access to lawyers to help with various issues, but have chosen the route they’ve chosen.

Now “gender theory” is the new ‘pick your gender’ concept. Facebook now has 71 gender options. 71? From where?

Ed
 
Gay people could have legally asked for certain rights but why “gay marriage”?
This knowingly ignores Sarah B’s point that it wasn’t just marriage that was blocked – it was any type of union that afforded gays and lesbians protections and rights as legal couples.
 
This knowingly ignores Sarah B’s point that it wasn’t just marriage that was blocked – it was any type of union that afforded gays and lesbians protections and rights as legal couples.
What was meant by “union”? Is it something other than “legal framework”?
 
How about civil unions?
What about them? Are you asking why are they called unions?
They appear to be called “unions” because their context is romantic attachment. Siblings are forbidden. They were rejected by gay spokespersons as not sufficiently “equal”.
 
What about them? Are you asking why are they called unions?
They appear to be called “unions” because their context is romantic attachment. Siblings are forbidden. They were rejected by gay spokespersons as not sufficiently “equal”.
No, I mentioned civil unions in reference to what Sarah B wrote. I don’t have any questions about why they’re called unions.
 
A quick recap:
So could we please start with some honesty here. In the many state referendums approved by voters to amend their state constitutions, voters not only rejected same sex marriage, they voted against “ANY” recognition of gay partnerships by forbidding civil unions or any similar legal rights for gay couples.
Gay people could have legally asked for certain rights but why “gay marriage”?
This knowingly ignores Sarah B’s point that it wasn’t just marriage that was blocked – it was any type of union that afforded gays and lesbians protections and rights as legal couples.
What was meant by “union”? Is it something other than “legal framework”?
Clearly, civil unions are, in part, what Sarah B was referring to.
 
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