Transitional Fossils and the Theory of Evolution in relation to Genesis Accounts

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The point is that this statement is patently false:

“Creation has always been professed as a belief of faith and has never been proposed as science.”
The criticism at issue is the proposition that Catholic teaching professes creation as science.
Perhaps I’ve been reading too many of your posts causing me to slip into the passive voice.

However, I corrected the slip but, of course, you must continue to argue the point. Hopefully, the meds will kick in sooner than later.
 
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Freddy:
The point is that this statement is patently false:

“Creation has always been professed as a belief of faith and has never been proposed as science.”
The criticism at issue is the proposition that Catholic teaching professes creation as science.
Perhaps I’ve been reading too many of your posts causing me to slip into the passive voice.

However, I corrected the slip…
Well done. Now, if you could furnish us with your theory as to how we came to be here? Unless you’re like Buzz and literally have no idea.
 
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Freddy:
Well done. Now, if you could furnish us with your theory as to how we came to be here? Unless you’re like Buzz and literally have no idea.
You might consider upping the dosage on those meds.
I need medication because I’m asking you for your views on the process which brought us to this point? Rather than continuously deflecting, why not simply answer the question? You must have some idea. I’m sure even Buzz does even though he says not.
 
Rather than continuously deflecting, why not simply answer the question?
Asked and answered – more than once. Having multiple senior moments? If so answering again will only cause you more frustrations; indulging your weakness may accelerate senility. You’ll find re-reading the posts good therapy – or are you just troll/baiting?
 
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Freddy:
Rather than continuously deflecting, why not simply answer the question?
Asked and answered – more than once. Having multiple senior moments? If so answering again will only cause you more frustrations; indulging your weakness may accelerate senility. You’ll find re-reading the posts good therapy – or are you just troll/baiting?
That’s not quite true. Your suggestion to go back a hundred posts or so came up with zilch. And I went back a lot further than that just in case I missed something. You have offered nothing. I’m sure that if you did you could simply repeat it or give us a post number.

Could you let us know where you gave us your alternate theory that matches the available evidence?
 
Could you let us know where you gave us your alternate theory that matches the available evidence?
No. That would do you a disservice. Did you know that taking on difficult mental tasks can prevent or slow down alzheimer’s disease?
 
I was thinking of inviting you to my birthday party, but after reading this very mean and unfair post of yours, I’m having second thoughts.
 
Well spotted, old chap! Yes, it is a typo – I meant to say amphibians have a double-circulation heart, which allegedly evolved from fish, which have a single-circulation heart. Sorry about that.
No, the science has, and we’ve found lots of linking fossils that appear to be ancestor forms
Stephen J. Gould : "The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persist as the trade secret of paleontology . The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils…”

And you forgot to mention that the distinct lack of transitional fossils before the Cambrian explosion is an embarrassment to Darwinian theory.
along with DNA evidence pointing right at common descent.
Quite true - DNA points to sheep dogs and poodles sharing a common ancestor – the wolf. However, DNA does not demonstrate that humans and birds share a common ancestor, for example.
Yeah, my useless appendix and wonky eyeballs are brilliant design. So is my best friend’s back, or her boyfriend’s deadly peanut allergy.
Have you ever considered the possibility that the Fall (original sin) might have something to do with these ailments, including your so-called useless appendix?
You don’t have to be atheist to accept evolution.
No one except atheists needs to accept the Darwinist explanation for the history of life on earth – it’s irrelevant, both theologically and scientifically. However, a good reason for rejecting Darwinist folklore is that it is not a convincing explanation for the fossil record.
You just need to be reasonable and think about it.
I was reasonable and thought about it … then I rejected Darwinism at as an adequate explanation for the history of life on earth. The truth can set you free, too.
all available scientific evidence points to universal common descent via evolution being the cause of Earth’s biodiversity.
That is excellent Darwinian propaganda, but what a pity it isn’t true. The Cambrian explosion flat-out contradicts “common descent” and Darwinian evolution.
In these instances, belief that these miracles occurred means that life arose from non-life with no need for evolution.
When we are (hopefully) resurrected into our glorified bodies, will we have to wait billions of years for those bodies to evolve from a bug? I hope not.
In these instances, belief that these miracles occurred means that life arose from non-life with no need for evolution.
This is what the Cambrian explosion appears to demonstrate – life-forms appearing suddenly without any evidence of evolution. For some odd reason, theistic evolutionists have a great deal of trouble accepting this demonstration of God’s miraculous creative power.
 
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In the case of evolution the problem is that it’s only the religious, and few of them at that, that deny evolution.
That depends what you mean by “evolution”. I accept that scientific evidence suggests “evolution” has taken place – the first organisms that came into existence were simple prokaryotes and later comes all the diversity of life seen in the fossil record and then the life we we see on earth today – that history could be described as “evolution”.

So I don’t “deny evolution”. However, I do deny the Darwinian explanation for that “evolution” … and not because of any Bible text, but because it is a poor explanation. For example, it is clearly contradicted by the Cambrian explosion. Darwinism is also very poor at reasonably explaining how novel organs and body plans came into existence – for example, what environmental circumstances led to pieces of the jaw-bone of a reptile to evolve into the inner-ear bones of a mammal?

I believe the history of life on earth is a miraculous process because that is what the fossil record suggests, and there is no observable biological process that can account for all life on earth evolving from a bug.
Because they have a vision of God and a text that they are sure must be exactly correct, they insist evolution is false. They have no other hypothesis other than God magically created “kinds” which can not change but may adapt. No definition of kinds. No other system that God used. No ability to give evidence of another method.
Not all folks who reject Darwinism are Bible literalists and not all of them do so because of religious reasons. For example, you can read every anti-Darwinism article published at evolutionnews.org (Discovery Institute) and you will not come across one argument based on religion or some Bible text or some personal “vision of God” – all their arguments are 100% based on scientific evidence.
 
Stephen J. Gould :
Believed nothing which you claim he did. Gould was a staunch evolutionist, and would rightly call you out on cherry-picking quotes of his to support your position.
And you forgot to mention that the distinct lack of transitional fossils before the Cambrian explosion is an embarrassment to Darwinian theory.
A refuted position which has had no supportive evidence provided whatsoever.
However, DNA does not demonstrate that humans and birds share a common ancestor, for example.
That’s why so much of our DNA is common between us!

Oh wait…
Have you ever considered the possibility that the Fall (original sin) might have something to do with these ailments, including your so-called useless appendix?
I have. It’s a ridiculous theory. No changes in the human anatomy have ever been detected among fossils or ancient mummified remains which would indicate such a sudden change.
No one except atheists needs to accept the Darwinist explanation for the history of life on earth
Of course. However, some theories are simply worse than others. We have evidence; we are not in a vacuum.
However, a good reason for rejecting Darwinist folklore is that it is not a convincing explanation for the fossil record.
Once again, a baseless, debunked statement.
When we are (hopefully) resurrected into our glorified bodies, will we have to wait billions of years for those bodies to evolve from a bug? I hope not.
Nobody has said this except you.
For some odd reason, theistic evolutionists have a great deal of trouble accepting this demonstration of God’s miraculous creative power.
Because it’s not a miraculous creation event.
evolutionnews.org (Discovery Institute)
Wow, what a reliable source :roll_eyes:
all their arguments are 100% based on scientific evidence.
Funniest thing I’ve seen all day. One look at the organization’s history says the exact opposite.
 
What other scientific theories do you discount? The formation of the solar system? Climate change? The possibilities are endless!
 
It is long, but I highly suggest you read it! Thanks!

The Bible says seven days. Genesis is the only thing God gives us in terms of creation. Sure, Jesus talked in parables much of the time, but I don’t think the Old Testament did. It has to be exactly how it happened as that’s the only thing God tells us. The Creation story is one with a personal God who does not waste time, whereas the Darwin theory is of an impersonal God who has the power to make His people instantly, but nonsensically decides to create them over time. We are children of God. We are not sophisticated animals. To go against the traditional Creation Story, the following would have to be untrue (which they aren’t): First of all, animals don’t have souls. Since souls are spiritual, not physical, and not of this world, a soul cannot be physically developed through “evolution”. Other than free will, the thing that separates man from beast is the soul. The difference can be clearly seen. If we didn’t have souls, we would be of the same being as animals. A final thing, man is made in God’s image, as the Bible said. It talks about “making” man in God’s image, not “developing”, “evolving”, etc… It is Catholic dogma that He made us in His image. It goes with the Creation story. One cannot take one part of Genesis, and not the rest. It also involves a detailed history tracing generations from Adam and Eve to Noah. I believe it traces all the way to Abraham, but I’ll leave y’all to check that. (I can’t do all the work! 😉 ) If we were made in God’s and the Darwin theory were true, God would have to be an animal. God wanted us to be free like Him, so he gave us a soul and free will - two things animals don’t have. We have to be like God, just like it says we are. If we are evolved animals, God must be an animal. If God is an animal, that would mean animals are like God. He clearly has free will, so all animals would have to free will, which they don’t. Do not believe what mankind says of things. They try to explain how creation could’ve happened without God being real. Obviously, this is foolishness to the highest degree. Another thing that’s foolishness is thinking we could be sure of something when, according to them, it happened “billions of years” ago. People believe this because of human pride and the feeling of the need to know something. Man can go insane from ignorance, and that’s one of the biggest things to for someone to
 
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know: how everything started. Man doesn’t function well if they don’t have some kind of idea of how it all started. To fill their need for an answer (even if it is wrong), they believe such silly talk of evolution and Darwin’s theories. If we take God out of something and don’t base it in His Word, our imagination has no limits, and is not grounded in Him who is Truth itself. This is a playground for the Evil One, who will just keep stirring our imaginations and bring us farther from the truth. As far as dinosaurs and mammoths go, they could’ve been around but just have died in the Great Flood. It is certainly seeable, as there may have been giants back then as well (and isn’t there something with Saint George and a dragon?). Scientists talk about an “ice age”. They are referring to the Great Flood, but deny the Great Flood. Genesis, I believe, talks about how there was land and water around the land. (Another one to check) The Great Flood, I believe, is what separated the land that was one into the continents. That’s the only thing God tells us that could have broken up land like that. It was certainly a big enough flood to did it, too! When it comes to dating things such as bones, rocks, and ground, they reject the Great Flood and its impacts, so they think all this stuff got the way it is without a Great Flood. Maybe without a Great Flood, it would take billions of years to get that way. But, there was a Great Flood, and so it had that effect on all of it. (Insert ending transition word), these arguments are airtight. I truly feel believe I have the Holy Spirit in me telling me to say these things. As I’ve seen how the Holy Spirit works, a lot of times it is spontaneous things that just hit you. Most of the stuff I talked about just hit me. I’ve been thinking about this subject for a while, and a lot/most (whatever it is) of this stuff I only just realized now when writing. I hope and pray you all will listen to what I have said, and that you will come to agree with these great truths. God bless!

P.S. If it all started with an asteroid and “The Big Bang”, something had to have created both the asteroid and the planet. What could create such things that was impersonal (when they are both so carefully designed) and did not have power like God does? (Insert “Think About It” meme 😉 ) ❤️✝️
 
The Bible says seven days. Genesis is the only thing God gives us in terms of creation. Sure, Jesus talked in parables much of the time, but I don’t think the Old Testament did.
The prevailing opinion is that Genesis is figurative poetry.
It has to be exactly how it happened as that’s the only thing God tells us.
If you decide that every part of it must be literal.
The Creation story is one with a personal God who does not waste time, whereas the Darwin theory is of an impersonal God who has the power to make His people instantly, but nonsensically decides to create them over time.
First: Impersonal and personal are completely subjective and unrelated to the manner of creation.

Second: Creation over time grows the universe naturally, according to easily understandable and testable laws. Instant creation does not do that. Our wonder is far more suited to a gradual creation than to instant.
We are children of God. We are not sophisticated animals.
We are both. They are not mutually exclusive.
To go against the traditional Creation Story, the following would have to be untrue (which they aren’t): First of all, animals don’t have souls. Since souls are spiritual, not physical, and not of this world, a soul cannot be physically developed through “evolution”.
Who said the soul evolved? I have claimed the exact opposite.
 
A final thing, man is made in God’s image, as the Bible said. It talks about “making” man in God’s image, not “developing”, “evolving”, etc… It is Catholic dogma that He made us in His image.
Meaning His mental and spiritual image; logical, rational minds which do many things out of reach for lesser ones. It does not mean physical image. God has no physical image.
One cannot take one part of Genesis, and not the rest. It also involves a detailed history tracing generations from Adam and Eve to Noah. I believe it traces all the way to Abraham, but I’ll leave y’all to check that. (I can’t do all the work! 😉 )
If a part of a book is poetry, and part nonfiction, does that mean even the poetry is nonfiction? No. Genesis is not one literary genre. It is a mix.
If we were made in God’s and the Darwin theory were true, God would have to be an animal.
False.
God wanted us to be free like Him, so he gave us a soul and free will - two things animals don’t have. We have to be like God, just like it says we are. If we are evolved animals, God must be an animal. If God is an animal, that would mean animals are like God. He clearly has free will, so all animals would have to free will, which they don’t.
This entire section rests on the false notion that God created man in His physical likeness, which is impossible since God does not have one. We cannot look like what does not exist.
Do not believe what mankind says of things. They try to explain how creation could’ve happened without God being real.
God and evolution have not, are not, and will never be mutually exclusive. Even the Church says so. To claim otherwise is to claim to know more than the Church.
Another thing that’s foolishness is thinking we could be sure of something when, according to them, it happened “billions of years” ago.
Do those quotation marks mean you disagree with the age of the Earth?

Besides that, science extrapolates back all kinds of events because we know the laws of the universe and know they don’t arbitrarily change. Evolution, the history of the solar system and the universe, all these and more are things we extrapolate backwards using knowledge gained through science.
 
People believe this because of human pride and the feeling of the need to know something.
No. We believe this because the careful methods of hypothesis, testing, and evaluating have revealed it to us. There is no pride involved.
To fill their need for an answer (even if it is wrong), they believe such silly talk of evolution and Darwin’s theories.
It is not silly talk, unless you just don’t believe in the use of science at all. There’s nothing special about evolution when it comes to other science. It’s just another field, but gets singled out by creationists for one reason or another.
If we take God out of something and don’t base it in His Word, our imagination has no limits, and is not grounded in Him who is Truth itself. This is a playground for the Evil One, who will just keep stirring our imaginations and bring us farther from the truth.
Evolution is not satanic or a lie from him. Evolution is science, nothing more. I don’t really know what else to say to respond to such a claim.
As far as dinosaurs and mammoths go, they could’ve been around but just have died in the Great Flood.
I’ve said it many times and I will say it again. It is physically impossible for all fossilized fauna and flora to have coexisted at any point in Earth’s history. Period. If you want to know more about why, I will tell you. If not, then this point stands and I will continue to bring it up to debunk the “great flood wiped out the dinosaurs” myth.
It is certainly seeable, as there may have been giants back then as well (and isn’t there something with Saint George and a dragon?).
Myths are mythical, not reality.
Scientists talk about an “ice age”. They are referring to the Great Flood, but deny the Great Flood.
False. They are referring to multi-millenial periods of widespread glaciation. It has nothing to do with global floods.
Genesis, I believe, talks about how there was land and water around the land. (Another one to check) The Great Flood, I believe, is what separated the land that was one into the continents.
That would be plate tectonics. Not only have all continents been united a great many times in Earth’s history, humans would never have survived in Pangaea, like almost every other thing alive today.

Edit: I have one more post to end this off, but cannot post another time consecutively. I’ll post it when someone replies.
 
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Here you go then. I just wanted to suggest to Matt that he uses paragraphs. I skipped the whole post. Big blocks of text I tend to ignore.
 
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Thanks, Freddy.
That’s the only thing God tells us that could have broken up land like that. It was certainly a big enough flood to did it, too!
God did not “tell us” that the flood broke up the continents. You read that into the passage. Plate tectonics broke up the continents, and continue to move them across the Earth.
When it comes to dating things such as bones, rocks, and ground, they reject the Great Flood and its impacts, so they think all this stuff got the way it is without a Great Flood.
Yes, because the weight of evidence is against your version of the flood. Frankly, you are wrong, and the unlying evidence is right.
Maybe without a Great Flood, it would take billions of years to get that way. But, there was a Great Flood, and so it had that effect on all of it.
The flood would not change radiometric dating and make it so unreliable, nor would it change anything outside of Earth which we use to date the age of the Solar System.
these arguments are airtight.
As airtight as a convertible with the top down.
I truly feel believe I have the Holy Spirit in me telling me to say these things.
Then your feelings are not in accordance with reality.
As I’ve seen how the Holy Spirit works, a lot of times it is spontaneous things that just hit you. Most of the stuff I talked about just hit me.
That’s what we call “coincidence.”
I’ve been thinking about this subject for a while, and a lot/most (whatever it is) of this stuff I only just realized now when writing. I hope and pray you all will listen to what I have said, and that you will come to agree with these great truths. God bless!
I will agree with you once all of science is proven completely wrong and any evidence at all to support your beliefs comes to light.

Hint: That will never happen.
P.S. If it all started with an asteroid and “The Big Bang”
It started with the Big Bang. No asteroid involved. Don’t know where that idea came from…
something had to have created both the asteroid and the planet. What could create such things that was impersonal (when they are both so carefully designed) and did not have power like God does? (Insert “Think About It” meme 😉 ) ❤️
Ignoring the fact that your conception of the Big Bang is very far off, both planets and asteroids form as a result of the interactions of matter according to physical laws. There is no mystery as to why these things happen. I have explained before how these things occur, and I will again if needed.
 
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