Traps, lies, and deceptions

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I don’t know if this counts, but on the day my daughter was born in January of 2003 I was wondering the halls of the catholic Hospital we were at, and I stopped by the Chaplains office. I noticed that someone had placed several anti-catholic tracks in the information center. I alerted the priest to this fact. The tracks wre stamped with the name and address of a local baptist church.
 
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bengal_fan:
this thread is just as “hate-filled” as all the things you are complaining about. i will not be back to see you spew your hate on me, but i appreciate that you all think you are doing God’s will just like all the rest of the others you are complaining about. if you have truth (which i do believe is only to be found in Christianity and the fullness of that truth is to be found in the catholic church) you have an obligation to share it. these people think they have truth and they care enough about humanity to not stay silent about it. oh what we can learn from their passion.
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bengal_fan, I think you’re getting a little too upset, but I see your point.

I personally don’t mind if people try to convert me, so long as they’ll ALSO listen to my rebuttal.

I understand that they’re doing what they’re doing out of love! They sincerely believe that they need to spread their religion to save us. In many ways, I prefer to dialog with a fired-up protestant over a luke-warm (or ice cold) Catholic.

However, it is incumbent on us to make sure that we understand our faith enough to defend our beliefs (1Pe 3:15-16)! AND we should make sure that anyone in our charge is likewise protected and prepared! If we have proper formation, we need fear nothing from any “tricks” since we have Truth on our side!

Dave
 
Good Morning Church

Good Morning Bengal-fan

I do not think anyone here is attacking any other faith. I think it is lies and deceptions that are not good.

We do have the fullness of faith.
That is not to say that everything these other forms of worship are doing is wrong. Only the deception part.

I can tell you that any one of us can see that all of these folks do things that we as Catholics can do better.
For example:
JWs are known for studying scripture and evangelizing, even to the point of having doors slammed in their faces and being horribly insulted. We could learn this from them. Catholics are called to do this, too.

Mormons are known for family life and mission work. They are wonderful at this virtue. Catholics are called to these things, too. We could use these examples to improve our faith walk.

Evangelicals are really into Praise and Worship and will stop whatever they are doing to pray with someone. They go out to hospitals and bring food and support to peoples homes when they are sick. Catholics are called to do this, too. We are not very good at it. Instead of looking at their faults, what if we try to improve how we are in these areas.

Pentecostals are really into Holy Spirit worship. They have read every scripture about the Gifts and the Fruits. They believe that these were the actions of the Early Church. They mean us. The Holy Father believes this, too. Well, there has been lots of discussion here on this. Many still don’t agree with the Holy Father where this is concerned.

Anyway, we must recognize deception and lies when we see them and refuse to be drawn in. We have a habit of “tossing the baby out with the bathwater”. We should see if we can do better and maybe these separated brothers and sisters can be an example to us and by us doing it much better, draw them “Home to Rome”.

CD, they spit in our Lords face, too. All I can say is Bless you because you are daily picking up His cross.
 
Who are these guys? Hopetalk.org

A bunch of men just blew through the neighborhood knocking on doors and passing out their literature. I didn’t get to talk to one of these men, but I found one of their pieces of literature on my door from Hopetalk.org.

We have a couple of new Protestant franchises trying to start up in our town. Is Hopetalk.org affiliated with a Protestant denomination?
 
The servant is never greater than the Master.
originally posted by Schabel
I personally don’t mind if people try to convert me, so long as they’ll ALSO listen to my rebuttal.
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Why should you expect people to actually listen to you when people would reject the truth from Christ Himself? When they wouldn’t listen to Him?

I try to remember that constantly. The servant is never greater than the Master. As He was rejected so must I be. Rejection does not give me permission to no longer be a reflection of His glory. My job is to share His word. Sometimes I will be spit on. If I am spit on for loving Christ, I would ask to be spit on everyday. Sometimes a seed is planted especially when hate is spewing forward, and the response is Christian love.

Our responsibility is to reflect Christ’s love even as His true Church is attacked. Unfortunately, I know I have failed at this, but when even one person is offended by our posts whether it was “personal” or just a general attack on our Protestant brothers and sisters, we need to examine our actions.
originally posted by Schabel
I understand that they’re doing what they’re doing out of love! They sincerely believe that they need to spread their religion to save us. In many ways, I prefer to dialog with a fired-up protestant over a luke-warm (or ice cold) Catholic.
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Code: 
 I totally agree!!!I always try to remind people that if Catholics really believed what some people *think *we believe, we would be in serious need of salvation.  And if I thought Catholics were worshiping idols and such, in fact desecrating My Lord and My God they way they think, I might have trouble not displaying "righteous anger" at the "deceit" practiced by the Catholic church.  I believe most people who do these things are motivated by trying to save people from Hell.  Unfortunately, just like some of us here, they  don't always go about it the right way. 
 There have been alot of ugly posts on the board lately about our Protestant brothers and sisters.  Although I personally do not think this thread has passed over to that direction, there are a few posts that failed to give non-Catholics the best possible motive for their actions.  That along with the very real hate being spewed on the board at large, I feel, is what Bengal Fan is reacting to.   
 For those of us who have been there, in a Protestant denomination working our way home to the CC, and those of us who never had to go through that remember this:
       When God is showing us a very real truth, most all of our fellow Christians, Christians whose opinion we have respected over the years in spiritual matters are telling us we are wrong.   It can be as mild as I think you are mistaken, to Satan is deceiving you and you are going to go to Hell if you become Catholic.  Friends that you have had for years no longer speak to you.  In Bengal Fans case, his very job is going to be lost, as a Minister if he becomes a Catholic.    
    So here we have a man who has a very strong and real passion for Christ.  A man who worships God to the best of his knowledge. A man probably more knowledgable about Christ than I will ever be.  A devoted man of God.   A Protestant.  From his Protestant brothers and sisters he gets little understanding and is told his walk to the Catholic Church is a mistake. Maybe the same from his family.  And from the very Christians he is trying to walk *to* his Christianity is being questioned.  "Why do Protestants even bother going to Church" "Are Protestants really Christians"  And even some of the posts, well intentioned, that compare Protestants to children playing at church.  How exactly would that make you feel if you were a Protestant Minister on his way home to Rome?
 
Oh Lord, please, hold up Bengal Fan in yours arms. Comfort him in his walk and bless his family. Provide for his finances and take that burden away from him. Bring his family along with him to enjoy the fullness of truth in your Church. And I ask this through Christ our Lord. Amen.
 
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Matt16_18:
Who are these guys? Hopetalk.org
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I just took a quick peek at the site. The AmazingFacts is a Seventh Day Adventist study. I’'ve had these sent to my house before. The Discover studies are by a group called Voice of Prophecy. I’ve also had these sent to my house. It seems to be a non-denom study. The It is Written series looks like the same as the Discover series. Bibleinfo is a Christadelpian group. Our Daily Bread is from the RBC Ministries, a non-denom dispensationalist group that believes in the rapture.
 
One big trap, lie and deception used on not only Catholics, but all Christians as well is most television fictional programming. Catholics are seldom depicted as good faithful loving spiritual people.

It most commonly depicts people living in a very superficial world in a Godless society. It lures people in thinking this is the norm, which is what the Culture of Hedonism and Death wants to be the norm, but fortunately there are many good families living good Godly lives with deep spirituality.

(I wish some big donor would offer Mother Angela the chance to add an ETWN Lite channel that would have good catholic fictional programs depicting religious families dealing with realistic situations of life and the role God and the Church plays in their lives.)
 
Ahh… Hopetalk.org has a link that says Send your prayer request to the Voice of Prophecy , and when you click on it, you are sent to a page that again asks you to Send your prayer request to the Voice of Prophecy. That page that asks for your name address, email, etc. No clue as to what denomination Hopetalk.org is affiliated with until you click on “Home Button” on this page. That links you to a page that invites you to “Join us at the World Famous Crystal Cathedral”. When you click on the “About Us/Mission” button on that page you are led to this site: The Voice of ProphecyThe Voice of Prophecy radio, Bible school, and evangelistic ministry has its international headquarters at the Adventist Media Center in Simi Valley, California.

H. M. S. Richards, a Seventh-day Adventist evangelist, pioneered the use of radio to present the gospel 70 years ago – when many of his colleagues thought the new device was the Devil’s playground.

Lonnie Melashenko is the director-speaker today, and the Voice of Prophecy strives to stay on the cutting edge in reaching contemporary society, utilizing the latest technologies for sharing God’s Word.The Hopetalk website is a perfect example of the deceptiveness that Cestusdei is talking about.
 
I honestly don’t see how anyone can find this thread “hate filled.” I don’t think anyone here would deny anyone the right to reach out to people with whatever belief they hold. No one is criticizing that. I don’t hold it against the JWs or the Mormons who knock on my door trying to convert me. But I have seen the type of thing that cestus is referring to…deceit and trickery…evangelization by means of the “ol’ bait and switch.” Exposing that sort of thing for what it is does not constitute “hate” by any stretch of the imagination. I don’t doubt that even the trickiest of the tricksters actually thinks they are acting in a person’s best interests. We all know that good intentions do not excuse bad behavior though.

If one is going to try and spread his beliefs, one should be open and up front about what those beliefs are and with what faith they are affiliated. If what you believe needs to remain hidden in order to get anyone to listen to you, then that ought to tell you that something is out of kilter. I’d be just as against Catholics pretending to be something else in order to expose someone to Catholic doctrine. The “target” of evangelization should be given the opportunity to say “sorry, I’m not interested” without being badgered or misled.
 
Upfront, open, and honest.

Not like the fundamentalist churches that put up pictures of OL of Guadaloupe to fool Hispanics into thinking it is a Catholic Church.
 
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Schabel:
bengal_fan, I think you’re getting a little too upset, but I see your point.
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you are right…

i apologize to everyone. i just felt that the spirit in which this forum was started was not good. it seemed to just be attacking as opposed to informing and everyone else was jumping on board. i guess it’s because i’ve seen cestusdei make almost identical comments on other threads (i don’t mean to attack you cestus, but you do seem to have an axe to grind against protestants, i guess i got pretty mad when i’ve been spit on also though). it is wrong for people to use deceit to bring “truth”, but it is just as wrong not to love those people no matter what. i know we all know and understand this, but i am trying to give you an idea why i was so upset. it really felt as though hate was coming from all of the posters here (and this includes me as my post was not the nicest) and i know [some of] you to be very faithful christians and very faithful to the one church and that is why i was upset. again, i apologize.

p.s. maria, i appreciate your prayers, but it did seem like you were making a public point with what should have been a private prayer. you did hit the nail on the head though with your prayer and i do appreciate it.
 
How about this :

I know at least one person who is very traditionalist, very anti-ecumenical, having tons of email-addresses and forum-names, posting and answering himself, dedicating most of his time in several forums trying to give impression as if his belief is the common roman catholic teachings when actually they are not faithful to Rome anymore.

It’s easy to urge submission when you don’t have to show example.
 
Actually I am fine with Protestants. But fundamentalists who lie and deceive in order to covert Catholics I am not fine with. They are the ones with an axe to grind. I am just defending us. In this case by point out ruses that they have used to fool unsuspecting Catholics.

For example giving out tracts and books that appear to be Catholic, but are not. At the last wyd the sda’s had a variety of such booklets. It was a blatent attempt to convert Catholic children without their parents consent and using pictures of the Pope and Mary to do it. Is it ecumenical to lie in order to convert someone from Catholicism?
 
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cestusdei:
Is it ecumenical to lie in order to convert someone from Catholicism?
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no, but it is also not ecumenical to lump all fundamentalists in together. there are some who still believe in no race mixing, some who have websites titled “God hates fags” dot com, and some who are simply trying to love God and love others. there was some one on another thread who said that “non-catholic = anti-catholic”, but i (as a soon to be convert) like to think as non-catholic as not-yet-catholic.
 
I have met lots of fundamentalists. As of yet I have never met one who didn’t harbor anti-Catholic beliefs. Some of they ARE willing to lie and deceive Catholics. So I will continue to warn them. It is only common sense. I am sure they would be delighted if we pretended that they were not interested in converting Catholics. Catholic Answers was founded to respond to that fact and they fear CA for its effectiveness.
 
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Peace-bwu:
A few years ago when my daugher was 4 we went trick-or -treating in Air Force base housing. When we got home and started checking her candy there was a Jack Chick booklet in her bag!! It was a story about a little girl who was terminally ill with cancer and discovered Jesus and begged her daddy to accept Jesus as her personal Lord and Saviour… at the end it showed someone on fire in hell.:bigyikes: …It makes me angry to know that there were children who actually read that ****. I wanted so badly to know who gave it to her so I could go over to their house with a rosary and crucifix and say that we came to give them back their pitiful, hateful excuse for religious material and that we would be praying the rosary every day for their conversion. I bet they would have Loved that!

A Jack Chick TRICK on Halloween!!!
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On Halloween :tsktsk: , it’s poison candy . . . for the soul. :yup:
 
Back when I was younger, on Easter, the some movie theaters would advertise free Easter movies (of course,who can resist the word “free”). I can’t remember specifics, but I know the movies were really weird and by some Evangelist group I think. After the movies were over, they didn’t open the doors, but someone came to the front and asked all the little children who wanted to be “saved” to come to the front. And people in the back got up to start passing out papers. We just got up and left.

I don’t remember who said it, but I really feel that the best way to promote your religion (no matter what it is) is to live it everyday and act like a good person. Trying to shove propaganda down people’s throats is only going to make them resent you and give your religion a bad name.
 
While there are some fundamentalists who use deceit to get Catholics to look at their material, for the most part they are doing so because they believe the trash that they hand out. When I was still a fundalmentalist, I was frequently told the “many lies the Catholic church teaches”. I also was educated in a way to combat Catholic teachings. I guess this was done since I was a baptized Catholic. Problem with it was, I had no teaching what so ever, my parents stopped going when I was 4, so all it did was make me wonder. I finally purchased a catechism and looked for myself. Without fail everything I had been told that Catholics believed (and therefore could not be Christian) was wrong.

So even though there are many lies about the Catholic church and its teachings, most of the people I have met in my walk are motivated by Christ’s love. If Catholics really believed what they think we believe, we would be going to Hell and would need to be saved!
 
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