Trayvon Martin: Before the world heard the cries

[7_Sorrows]

The black community must bear equal responsibility for this tragedy. The black community has tolerated or at least condoned the culture of lawbreaking that has created the atmosphere of suspicion of black males that exists. If I am going down the street and I observe a group of young black males, I am immediately on guard, because groups of young black males that are dressed a certain way, and behaving in a certain way, have a history of committing mischief. This is not racism, but simple good sense.
I am certain that if I observed a group of young white males, dressed in a certain way, ie: shaved heads, combat boots and wearing “wifebeaters,” I would be alerted and perhaps take anouther route. Am I guilty of prejudice? No, merely excersizing prudence. We owe our survival to rapid first impressions and “fight or flight.” A certain appearance has come to identify certain groups. Hoodies, baggy pants, basketball shoes etc. has come to symbolize particularly black thugs. “Wifebeater” undershirts, baggy pants or shorts, athletic jerseys, headbands etc. have come to mean hispanic thugs and their imitators. Does that mean that ALL kids who dress this way are hoods or criminals? Of course not, but it does mean, that to the casual observer, who may be in danger, that they fly the flag of the enemy. One does not wait to explore deeper, one fights or flees. Black, white and hispanic communities have been guilty of allowing and condoning thug-like dress and thug-like behaviour by their children. The emulation of thug-like dress and thug-like behaviour by young people has led to countless tragedies such as we have seen lately. I certainly feel sorry for parents who lose their children to these atrocities, but they, and the culture at large, must share responsibility.
What’s the bottom line? Do not dress like a thug, do not behave like a thug, do not think like a thug, do not associate with thugs and chances are good that you will not be treated like a thug.Your “self-expression” is certainly not worth your life.

excellent point!!

 

[Devoted22]

Sorry for maybe not making my statement clearer regarding the “idea” of a young persons like being cut off , through no fault of thier own…calling it a “late term abortion”.
Firstly, I no nothing of all the details
Secondly, I was not attempting to judge what had happened, that I leave to those who can piece the facts together.
And I never meant it litteraly, to equate to Trayvons mother, or to judge the guilt or innocence of Trayvon. I saw the concept of what Alveda was saying as a cogent statement of a life cut short, the same as any life cut short, before it had the ability to fulfill its purpose to know and love God, through this human experience.

 

[SouthCatholic]

Why “Wow?” You know that what I am saying is true. There are too many incidents of hoodlum behavior on all sides, with the preponderance of crimes being committed by black youth. Something is horribly wrong. Kids are either formed by their parents or formed by the street. Which will you have? Look to the Godless, permissive society that we have become, and you will have your answer.

Except this kid wasn’t engaged in hoodlum behavior. He was walking to a friends house from a store with candy and iced tea. Your comment is illustrative of exactly the assumption George Zimmerman made when he put that tragic chain of of events in motion over a month ago. And, THIS is exactly why this case IS about race!

 

[HailStarofSea]

excellent point!!

Benjamin Franklin. “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” He should have the constitutionally protected liberty to wear a hoodie in the rain without being killed because people have negative stereotypes about blacks.

 

[kelvinf]

I think that no matter what, Zimmerman’s life will never again be the same. If he is charged, goes to trial, found guilty and then goes to prison, I doubt he will survive long in prison. If he is not charged because evidence does not support him being charged or if he is found not guilty if things advance to trial, I suspect he will have to relocate, change his identity and maybe much, much more to be able to live here in the States.

Yes, you are right. His life has already changed and will never be the same again. Same as that of the victim’s family. They will never get their son back. Anyone who ever tries to shoot an unarmed teenage again would have to think twice. The consequences are huge.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Yes, you are right. His life has already changed and will never be the same again. Same as that of the victim’s family. They will never get their son back. Anyone who ever tries to shoot an unarmed teenage again would have to think twice. The consequences are huge.

No doubt there. His parents and the rest of his family will miss him forever. And it is tragic that his young life was cut short.

 

[SwizzleStick]

I would like to know for sure what happened. I do not. I sure would like to know how those who are absolutely certain they know what happened came to this certainty and how they know with certainty that one of the two men in the situation was a villian. Some of you know that Martin was a thug. Others know that Zimmerman murdered Martin just because.

On the one hand, how can some of you “know” Martin was a thug, a hoodlum?

On the other hand, how can some of you “know” that Zimmerman is a racist who just shot the young man for no real reason?

I keep thinking that tragic misunderstanding led to the shooting. I think it possible that Zimmerman was trying to do his duties as a neighborhood watchman. He saw an unknown teen in the area and was vigilant and wary and followed the kid because it was raining and not a nice night for someone to be out walking AND because there had been several burglaries in the neighborhood. Martin decided to confront this unknown stranger who in his mind may have been just some guy who followed him. Zimmerman wasn’t wearing a uniform or anything to identify himself as someone with legitimate reason to be particularly watchful. I can see how Martin may have been alarmed by this guy following him and may have gotten mouthy in response to being afraid, may have wanted to appear tough to try to intimidate the stranger into leaving him alone so he could continue on home. Then during the confrontation, maybe when Zimmerman went for his phone, Martin thought he was instead going for his weapon. Then, due to misunderstanding, Martin felt he was in a fight for his life and defended his life by attacking Zimmerman with deadly force. After being hit and having his head hit on the ground, Zimmerman too felt he was in a fight for his life and so defended himself, he too with deadly force.

Granted, I don’t know what happened. But, the scenario above doesn’t seem so out there to me and it seems more charitable then some others I’ve read. Is it possible that something like that happened rather than having one of the two men be a villian? We have Zimmerman’s account. Martin can no longer tell us his side. Is it possible neither man is a villian?

 

[SwizzleStick]

yes, i think you are probably right. now i hear there were shootings in tulsa, oklahoma that have left 3 people dead - they were random shootings of black men walking down the street. more tragedy added to tragedy.

Yes. But, the shooters were caught in that case, so that, hopefully, will put an end to the violence. Hopefully.

"Two arrested in north Tulsa shootings that claimed three lives
The shootings were a day after 2-year anniversary of murder of suspect’s father

By ZACK STOYCOFF World Staff Writer
Published: 4/8/2012 4:37 AM
Last Modified: 4/8/2012 12:54 PM

Tulsa police have arrested two white men who are accused of killing three black residents and injuring two others in a shooting spree that authorities deemed “unprecedented.”

Jake England, 19, and Alvin Watts, 32, were arrested at 1:47 a.m. Sunday, about 48 hours after police began discovering gunshot victims in a three-mile area of north Tulsa."…

Blue excerpt from: tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=297&articleid=20120408_297_0_Tomnhv525414

 

[kelvinf]

I would like to know for sure what happened. I do not. I sure would like to know how those who are absolutely certain they know what happened came to this certainty and how they know with certainty that one of the two men in the situation was a villian. Some of you know that Martin was a thug. Others know that Zimmerman murdered Martin just because.

On the one hand, how can some of you “know” Martin was a thug, a hoodlum?

On the other hand, how can some of you “know” that Zimmerman is a racist who just shot the young man for no real reason?

I keep thinking that tragic misunderstanding led to the shooting. I think it possible that Zimmerman was trying to do his duties as a neighborhood watchman. He saw an unknown teen in the area and was vigilant and wary and followed the kid because it was raining and not a nice night for someone to be out walking AND because there had been several burglaries in the neighborhood. Martin decided to confront this unknown stranger who in his mind may have been just some guy who followed him. Zimmerman wasn’t wearing a uniform or anything to identify himself as someone with legitimate reason to be particularly watchful. I can see how Martin may have been alarmed by this guy following him and may have gotten mouthy in response to being afraid, may have wanted to appear tough to try to intimidate the stranger into leaving him alone so he could continue on home. Then during the confrontation, maybe when Zimmerman went for his phone, Martin thought he was instead going for his weapon. Then, due to misunderstanding, Martin felt he was in a fight for his life and defended his life by attacking Zimmerman with deadly force. After being hit and having his head hit on the ground, Zimmerman too felt he was in a fight for his life and so defended himself, he too with deadly force.

Granted, I don’t know what happened. But, the scenario above doesn’t seem so out there to me and it seems more charitable then some others I’ve read. Is it possible that something like that happened rather than having one of the two men be a villian? We have Zimmerman’s account. Martin can no longer tell us his side. Is it possible neither man is a villian?

Lo, whatever the case, I just can’t understand why an adult—a 28-year-old male—needs a deadly weapon to overpower an unarmed teenager—17-year-old. It doesn’t make any sense to me.

 

[vz71]

Lo, whatever the case, I just can’t understand why an adult—a 28-year-old male—needs a deadly weapon to overpower an unarmed teenager—17-year-old. It doesn’t make any sense to me.

One need look no further then the wounds apparent on the police tapes to understand that he was on the receiving end of a beating.

It was cold, dark, and raining. And Zimmerman was getting his head bashed repeatedly into the concrete. Under those same circumstances, I believe I would perceive a deadly threat and react accordingly.

My opinion -
The media botched this. They reported falsehood as fact and have let the race peddlers dictate the story. Most are recognizing this for what it is, and the media coverage is likewise dropping off due to the repeated falsehoods being circulated about the incident.
The story is going to drop off the radar, the race peddlers will scurry back into the caves, and Justice will move quietly onward.

 

[hosemonkey]

Except this kid wasn’t engaged in hoodlum behavior. He was walking to a friends house from a store with candy and iced tea. Your comment is illustrative of exactly the assumption George Zimmerman made when he put that tragic chain of of events in motion over a month ago. And, THIS is exactly why this case IS about race!

You totally miss the point. Martin was conforming to a stereotype. Zimmerman was acting on that stereotype. Right or wrong, appearances and split-second evaluations led to a tragedy, it happens all the time. I say again, if you do not want to be the victim of a stereotype, then do not conform to that stereotype. I do not care if you are a daily altar boy, if you look like a gangster, no one sees the altar boy. It is not worth anyone’s life.

 

[7_Sorrows]

One need look no further then the wounds apparent on the police tapes to understand that he was on the receiving end of a beating.

It was cold, dark, and raining. And Zimmerman was getting his head bashed repeatedly into the concrete. Under those same circumstances, I believe I would perceive a deadly threat and react accordingly.

My opinion -
The media botched this. They reported falsehood as fact and have let the race peddlers dictate the story. Most are recognizing this for what it is, and the media coverage is likewise dropping off due to the repeated falsehoods being circulated about the incident.
The story is going to drop off the radar, the race peddlers will scurry back into the caves, and Justice will move quietly onward.

you make an excellent point when you say the media botched this. the media jumps on the bandwagon and comes to conclusions before any facts are in. so people start forming opinions on rumors. the media blew this up into a race issue because it was bigger ratings for them. dr. drew, piers morgan, nancy grace, jane velez-mitchell, CNN, MSNBC
took this story and ran with it pretty much convicting zimmerman before they knew the whole story. I DON’T KNOW ALL THE FACTS. I DON’T KNOW WHAT THE OUTCOME WILL BE. but i have learned a lesson from this case to not trust what the major networks report because they are biased and they don’t have the story straight from the beginning, but make a story with rumors.

 

[kelvinf]

One need look no further then the wounds apparent on the police tapes to understand that he was on the receiving end of a beating.

It was cold, dark, and raining. And Zimmerman was getting his head bashed repeatedly into the concrete. Under those same circumstances, I believe I would perceive a deadly threat and react accordingly.

My opinion -
The media botched this. They reported falsehood as fact and have let the race peddlers dictate the story. Most are recognizing this for what it is, and the media coverage is likewise dropping off due to the repeated falsehoods being circulated about the incident.
The story is going to drop off the radar, the race peddlers will scurry back into the caves, and Justice will move quietly onward.

I still don’t understand how an adult vigilante with a gun can be beaten by a teenager to the point where the only thing he could do was to shoot the unarmed teen. Still doesn’t make sense.

People are reacting because such a shooting just can’t be justified.

 

[CatholicBoy1957]

I still don’t understand how an adult vigilante with a gun can be beaten by a teenager to the point where the only thing he could do was to shoot the unarmed teen. Still doesn’t make sense.

People are reacting because such a shooting just can’t be justified.

I understand it. It’s absolutely crystal clear.

Martin would have been armed, when he got the gun away from Zimmerman. Then what? Who would have rioted then? Who would have stuck up for Zimmerman? Who would have condemned Martin? Would the Black Panthers have condemned Martin?

 

[Dawnia]

I still don’t understand how an adult vigilante with a gun can be beaten by a teenager to the point where the only thing he could do was to shoot the unarmed teen. Still doesn’t make sense.

People are reacting because such a shooting just can’t be justified.

Wait. What? Are you saying he should have pulled his gun on an unarmed kid prior to getting knocked to the ground? or that a gun somehow gives people super powers so that they can’t be overpowered by someone else?

Just trying to understand your thinking here.

 

[tqualey]

Hi Mtbender,

Excellent post!

I would say a w-a-a-a-a-y over the top.

What seems to be totally lost is how the entire concept of real justice - by letting the established law take such a public beating by those who pander to hatred and prejudice. Men like the Rev Al Sharpton en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Sharpton have take a real tragic event and have tried to capitalize on public sympathy.

The continued public discussion to inspire emotionalism, marches, school walk-outs and other efforts to derail any sane assessment of this matter is simply counterproductive. The real challenge is how is anyone or any group going to put this train back on the tracks.

God bless

This is a little over the top…

I am no lawyer, but from what I have read that’s not the case. The stand your ground law doesn’t say if someone is following you then you have the right to kill them.

The fact is Zimmerman did not do anything illegal leading up to the altercation.

Zimmerman did not break the law by carrying a gun.
Zimmerman did not break the law by following Martin.
Zimmerman did not break the law by confronting Martin.
Zimmerman did not break the law by reporting Martin.

Poor judgment – maybe - but if that were enough to arrest someone we would need a lot more cells in this country.

With that said, the fault is with whoever initiated the physical altercation – which is still up for debate.
Zimmerman’s lawful actions prior to the altercation are no more culpable than Martin’s lawful actions.

The stand you r ground law in question states “A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any place where he or she has the right to be has not duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force…”

Seems to me the key is who attacked who – and merely confronting someone does not constitute an attack.

My prayers are with all those involved in this tragedy.

cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/Stand-Your-Ground-Law-2005.pdf

 

[vz71]

I still don’t understand how an adult vigilante with a gun can be beaten by a teenager to the point where the only thing he could do was to shoot the unarmed teen. Still doesn’t make sense.

Perhaps he did not draw his weapon until he feared his life in danger.

 

[pnewton]

One need look no further then the wounds apparent on the police tapes to understand that he was on the receiving end of a beating.

I have wounds on my arm from a cat scratch that are more visible than the ones on the police tape. He did not even need transport to a hospital for treatment first. Of all the evidence one way or another, the lack of serious wounds is not evidence for self defense.

 

[pnewton]

I still don’t understand how an adult vigilante with a gun can be beaten by a teenager to the point where the only thing he could do was to shoot the unarmed teen. Still doesn’t make sense.

I can see this happening, as Zimmerman had no training and apparently no skill at self-defense. I guess he thought a gun was all he needed to chase someone down.

 

[InnocentFortune]

Yes, you are right. His life has already changed and will never be the same again. Same as that of the victim’s family. They will never get their son back. Anyone who ever tries to shoot an unarmed teenage again would have to think twice. The consequences are huge.

Yeah Zimmerman should have just let Martin beat him so badly that he got brain damage. He should have thought twice before defending himself.