Trayvon Martin: Before the world heard the cries

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Lujack said:
Well played.
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A zero to me.
Not well played.
Not played at all.

How could Princess Bride fit into a thread on the death of a teenager in Florida?
If you mean it served to distract, then maybe it was well played to some posters.

To me, Princess Bride??? Never heard of it. Happy to say so.

Then again I NEVER HEARD OF HOODIES BEING CONSIDERED
DANGEROUS GARB until the Trayvon threads.
 
estesbob said:
Depends on how strong the Prosecutors case is. Prosecutors always overcharge
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I don’t know if it’s always an option, but someone mentioned that the jury could come back with a lesser charge, such as voluntary manslaughter. I know in the case I was on, we were instructed that we could opt for a lesser charge on the assault with a deadly weapon charge. That’s why we argued about whether biting could be considered a deadly weapon.

I’m in sales not law, but I could see a prosecutor coming in with a tougher charge, knowing that they may only get a lesser charge after the jury deliberates. At least, they get a guilty verdict.
 
catharina said:
A zero to me.
Not well played.
Not played at all.

How could Princess Bride fit into a thread on the death of a teenager in Florida?
If you mean it served to distract, then maybe it was well played to some posters.

To me, Princess Bride??? Never heard of it. Happy to say so.

Then again I NEVER HEARD OF HOODIES BEING CONSIDERED
DANGEROUS GARB until the Trayvon threads.
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😛
 
St_Francis said:
If Martin had not been black or if Zimmerman had been black, we would never have heard about this case. The *only *reason we have heard about it outside FL is the races of the two people involved. The injustice being claimed is that Zimmerman was “let off” because he was “white” and Martin black.
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No. In addition, Sanford Police Dept (merely one year ago) conducted a
cover-up of the fact that a police officer’s (white) son beat a black man
senseless. These FACTS were uncovered one year ago - with much publicity.
 
catharina said:
A zero to me.
Not well played.
Not played at all.

How could Princess Bride fit into a thread on the death of a teenager in Florida?
If you mean it served to distract, then maybe it was well played to some posters.

To me, Princess Bride??? Never heard of it. Happy to say so.

Then again I NEVER HEARD OF HOODIES BEING CONSIDERED
DANGEROUS GARB until the Trayvon threads.
Click to expand...
Rent it You’ll love it!
 
catharina said:
Juliane, my guess?
Race has little to do with the central issue.
Race is an add-on for extremists.

At issue, a teen who was a welcome guest on a property was shot
and killed by an un unappointed/untrained neighborhood watchman.
The Sanford Neighborhood Watch group never checked in with the national
group that was formed by sheriffs in the USA. The national group promotes
“NO FOLLOWING” as its watchword. The Sanford group is not under that
umbrella. So, dilemma: is it open season on unknown teens in Sanford?

My answer? I don’t know.
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Race has EVERYTHING to do with this! Why did the national media purposely distort the 911 tapes so that Zimmerman sounded as though he was uttering a racial epithet? What was that about? Why did they call Zimmerman a WHITE HISPANIC? What the heck is that? It’s ALL about race!
 
TheRealJuliane said:
Race has EVERYTHING to do with this! Why did the national media purposely distort the 911 tapes so that Zimmerman sounded as though he was uttering a racial epithet? What was that about? Why did they call Zimmerman a WHITE HISPANIC? What the heck is that? It’s ALL about race!
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It will be interesting to see if race is considered a factor in the trial. I agree with you that much of the media furor (and some of the CAF furor) was focused on race, but I’m not sure how much the evidence will point in that direction.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
Race has EVERYTHING to do with this! Why did the national media purposely distort the 911 tapes so that Zimmerman sounded as though he was uttering a racial epithet? What was that about? Why did they call Zimmerman a WHITE HISPANIC? What the heck is that? It’s ALL about race!
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Race became (and remains) an issue due to
the previous “bad” behavior of the Sanford PD.
The media LOVES that and jumped on it -
and packs of extremists joined right in.
 
St_Francis said:
If Martin had not been black or if Zimmerman had been black, we would never have heard about this case. The *only *reason we have heard about it outside FL is the races of the two people involved. The injustice being claimed is that Zimmerman was “let off” because he was “white” and Martin black.
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You make an interesting point that is not often discussed. Yes, I think if Martin had not black, we might never have heard about this case. However, you are wrong that “The injustice being claimed is that Zimmerman was ‘let off’ because he was ‘white’ and Martin black.” This would have been an injustice no matter what the races involved. But, ironically, Zimmerman might have stayed under the national news radar if race had not been involved. We don’t know why he was “let off” by the Sanford Police.

Which makes us ask, how often do these injustices happen and we never hear about them because they don’t become national issues? How often do police “let off” people for corrupt reasons, how often do District Attorneys not charge killers for dubious reasons?

OTOH, for African Americans who have experience with prejudicial treatment by police, who know what it is like to be pulled over for “DWB” (driving while black), to be hassled or searched for no apparent reason other than race, this case was extra alarming since it combined the possible race issue with possible issues of vigilantism, reckless manslaughter, murder, police corruption/favoritism, etc.
 
Hi, Hosemonkey,

You have made the same point on at least 3 separate posts - each one is valid, but appears to be misunderstood. I was thinking that actors wear special clothing to distinguish themselves - just like members of law enforcement and the judicary - and delinquent youth gangs. Each is a type of badge of honor to the wearer.

People not a member of the group (actors, law enforcement and law breakers) which public recognition for who they are by what they wear. Now, it may be that this seems home.cogeco.ca/~lunker/mimicry.htmsimplistic - but, it is well demonstrated thoughout nature. Some animals apparently pride themselves in what they look like - a rattlesnake with its distinctive rattle, a monarch butterfly uses a disguise ( home.cogeco.ca/~lunker/mimicry.htm ) to try and avoid being eaten, and the ‘red hour glass pattern’ on the abodomen of the black widow spider. Other animals see what is being displayed (or as in the case of the Monarch - the ruse being used) and act accordingly. In a similar manner our ancestors recognized members of their own tribe and those of other tribes simply by sight for practical reasons.

Merely to say that such behavior is prejudical may be accurate - but, really misses the
entire point. People demonstrating a threatening posture - even from a distance - get the attention of others and the desire to avoid violence towards themselves.t.

Does a ‘hoodie’ fall into the category? Maybe. Taking one item and saying it can only mean ‘x’ is difficult. What is necessary is that such recognition never happens in a vacuum. Prior to the fatal night for Martin, the gated community had had several instances of theft and, as it turns out, Zimmerman contacted the PD and they came out and a Neighborhood Watch was formed after members were trained. So, now add possibly distinctive items into a known crime area (multiple thefts) and there is an increase of anxiety. While this, by itself, these recognitions do not justify violence - we do not yet have all the facts. The Special Prosecutor has filed charges against Zimmerman charging him with 2nd degree murder.

We will learn more as the facts are identified and displayed.

God bless
hosemonkey said:
Thank you for making my exact point. People DO make incorrect assumptions and based on that fact, why reenforce those incorrect assumptions by conforming to a stereotype? If everyone is dressed like the hoodlum stereotype, how do you sort out the bad guys from the good guys? If I wear a Hell’s Angels patch on my jacket, does that make me a Hell’s Angel? Possibly. I may just be terminally stupid, because I am either a genuine Hell’s Angel or I simply love the attention that it gets me from Law Enforcement or I risk the wrath of real Hell’s Angels for the unauthorized wearing of their sacred patch. I have got to be willing to take the risks involved in presenting a certain appearance. I don’t care if that is right or wrong, that is simply the way it is.
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gilliam said:
Again, the prosecution has to prove it wasn’t self-defense. All Zimmerman has to do is claim self-defense, he doesn’t have to prove it.

IMHO, Zimmerman’s lawyers don’t need to plant a seed of doubt in 51% of the jurors. Just a handful.
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I quoted the case law a few days ago. Do you have any support for this opinion?

Personally, I don’t see ho 776.012 can apply here in light of the fact that Martin was unarmed and Zimmerman was not hospitalized. If it does, then like I said earlier, it is a good reason for me to avoid Florida.
 
catharina said:
Sorry, bob.
I’m a reader,
not a movie-watcher.

PS - still can’t see how Princess Bride fits into threads about the killing of a teen.
I mean - REALLY?
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The book is great too. 🙂

The reference made (“inconceivable”) was funny and a nod to both book and movie, that’s all. I guess it really doesn’t fit in this thread.
 
St_Francis said:
If Martin had not been black or if Zimmerman had been black, we would never have heard about this case. The *only *reason we have heard about it outside FL is the races of the two people involved. The injustice being claimed is that Zimmerman was “let off” because he was “white” and Martin black.
Click to expand...
catharina said:
No. In addition, Sanford Police Dept (merely one year ago) conducted a cover-up of the fact that a police officer’s (white) son beat a black man
senseless. These FACTS were uncovered one year ago - with much publicity.
Click to expand...
St_Francis said:
No? What do you mean, no? The reason it “took hold” is the earlier history of the Sanford PD - not what Z’s family said or didn’t say

A member of Zimmerman’s family wrote in that George Zimmerman helped publicize this issue in the black community. Here is a link to the only full text of the lettter I could find.
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estesbob said:
Depends on how strong the Prosecutors case is. Prosecutors always overcharge
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Sometimes they do, as long as they have at least enough evidence to bring that charge to trial, even if the believe that particular charge is unwinable.
 
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