Trayvon Martin: 'Shoot first' law under scrutiny

[bbarrick8383]

My bank posts a sign that states:

“No sunglasses.
No hoodies.
No baseball caps.”

My bank, like most banks, has a
vested interest in confirming identiies.
I’ve never seen such a sign outside a bank.

It’s not just about confirming identities.

Like I said before, a simple turning around of the baseball cap can be indicative.

 

[catharina]

So, if I’m a concealed carrier, and I approach someone and strike up a conversation. The person becomes irritated for whatever reason and attacks me, I have no right to defend myself if I did not start the conflict? I’m guilty of murder simply because I approached someone and started a conversation?

Or, do you need the details of the conversation to condemn me?

Yea, I see a lot of emotion in this.

If you’re carrying a weapon and tracking someone -
and local law enforcement says you need not
follow the individual - yet you continue to follow
him/her anyway, then who has intiated the encounter?

Only YOU.

 

[catharina]

It’s not just about confirming identities.

Like I said before, a simple turning around of the baseball cap can be indicative.

Maybe so in Oklahoma.
In my bank, not in Oklahoma, no baseball caps allowed.
Banks need to confirm identities.

 

[bbarrick8383]

If you’re carrying a weapon and tracking someone -
and local law enforcement says you need not
follow the individual - yet you continue to follow
hime/her anyway, then who has intiated the encounter?

Only YOU.

Since when did initiating a conversation equal guilt?

He probably should have stopped following, that does not make him a murderer.

There are so many what if’s, and emotions only get in the way of answers.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Maybe so in Oklahoma.
In my bank, not in Oklahoma, no baseball caps allowed.
Banks need to confirm identities.

It is not JUST about confirming identities!

For goodness sake, wearing a certain color of clothing is enough to invoke suspicion in some cases.

 

[catharina]

Since when did initiating a conversation equal guilt?

He probably should have stopped following, that does not make him a murderer.

There are so many what if’s, and emotions only get in the way of answers.

Viewing another as “suspicious” does not bode
well for a face-to-face encounter - especially when one has chased the “suspicious” other.

Not exactly rocket science, IMO.

 

[catharina]

It is not JUST about confirming identities!

For goodness sake, wearing a certain color of clothing is enough to invoke suspicion in some cases.

For those given to suspicion … sure.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Viewing another as “suspicious” does not bode
well for a face-to-face encounter - especially when one has chased the “suspicious” other.

Not exactly rocket science, IMO.

Not exactly proof of guilt without all of the answers either.

It’s interesting, if Martin had the gun and killed Zimmerman, we wouldn’t even be discussing this. If we were however, Martin would be called a man, not a child. Race never would have entered the discussion and regardless of what happened most people who throw so much emotion in to it they have to throw around words that do nothing but attempt to bring emotion into the discussion would call for the arrest of Martin on the spot.

 

[Lujack]

http://cjonline.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/superphoto/10934907.jpg
http://media2.myfoxhouston.com//photo/2012/03/08/gas-station_20120308114720_320_240.JPG

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/10/article-2024203-0D5EF15C00000578-47_964x663.jpg

Trayvon Martin wasn’t in a bank or a convenience store. He was outside. In the rain. People use hoods and hats to keep their head dry in the rain.

I played high school football for four years, and own four team hoodies, one for each year (we sold them as a fundraiser). I also have a hoodie for my school’s basketball team and a generic one that just says the high school’s name. Plus two or three under-armor hoodies. Almost all the athletes I know own hoodies and often wear them jogging if its cool.

You can put up as many pictures of suspicious looking people in hoodies as you want-I can easily find suspicious looking pictures of men in suits or windbreaker jackets or soccer jerseys.

 

[Lujack]

Not exactly proof of guilt without all of the answers either.

It’s interesting, if Martin had the gun and killed Zimmerman, we wouldn’t even be discussing this. If we were however, Martin would be called a man, not a child. Race never would have entered the discussion and regardless of what happened most people who throw so much emotion in to it they have to throw around words that do nothing but attempt to bring emotion into the discussion would call for the arrest of Martin on the spot.

That’s right, race would probably not have entered the discussion and the story would probably not have hit national news. On the other hand, Martin would probably be in jail right now.

 

[catharina]

Not exactly proof of guilt without all of the answers either.

It’s interesting, if Martin had the gun and killed Zimmerman, we wouldn’t even be discussing this. If we were however, Martin would be called a man, not a child. Race never would have entered the discussion and regardless of what happened most people who throw so much emotion in to it they have to throw around words that do nothing but attempt to bring emotion into the discussion would call for the arrest of Martin on the spot.

It is interesting.
You seem to be throwing around a bit of emotion too.
Trayvon Martin was a child - under the law.
Now he is a dead child. By law - he died as a child.

I have never called for the arrest of George Zimmerman.
It’s beyond strange that you would imply that.

Most folks seem to be asking for a thorough investigation,
NOT for the Sanford tune of ‘yeah, George is a great guy.’

 

[catharina]

That’s right, race would probably not have entered the discussion and the story would probably not have hit national news. On the other hand, Martin would probably be in jail right now.

Yes.

 

[Havard]

Sorry this is slightly off-topic from the Trayvon murder, but men should never have hats on or hoods up indoors in any public establishment, not just banks.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

I’ve been sitting on the sidelines waiting to learn why the police had released Zimmerman. Now it seems we are finding out: there was a witness who backed up Zimmerman’s story.

Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.

And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.

But one man’s testimony could be key for the police.

“The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911,” he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

The witness only wanted to be identified as “John,” and didn’t not want to be shown on camera.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman’s claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

“When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point,” John said.

Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.

Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting.

myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

 

[bbarrick8383]

Trayvon Martin wasn’t in a bank or a convenience store. He was outside. In the rain. People use hoods and hats to keep their head dry in the rain.

I played high school football for four years, and own four team hoodies, one for each year (we sold them as a fundraiser). I also have a hoodie for my school’s basketball team and a generic one that just says the high school’s name. Plus two or three under-armor hoodies. Almost all the athletes I know own hoodies and often wear them jogging if its cool.

You can put up as many pictures of suspicious looking people in hoodies as you want-I can easily find suspicious looking pictures of men in suits or windbreaker jackets or soccer jerseys.

I wear them too.

Its not the one article of clothing that can seem suspicious, but the place and the time. Maybe he thought Martin had a weapon in his hand? Hard dark was it? Would we be havin this same discussion if a white cop had shown up and instigated a conversation with Martin that ended up in Martins death?

 

[bbarrick8383]

That’s right, race would probably not have entered the discussion and the story would probably not have hit national news. On the other hand, Martin would probably be in jail right now.

And given the same set of shady details I would sit back and wait for the details to be release hoping the police did te right thing.

 

[bbarrick8383]

It is interesting.
You seem to be throwing around a bit of emotion too.
Trayvon Martin was a child - under the law.
Now he is a dead child. By law - he died as a child.

I have never called for the arrest of George Zimmerman.
It’s beyond strange that you would imply that.

Most folks seem to be asking for a thorough investigation,
NOT for the Sanford tune of ‘yeah, George is a great guy.’

Yeah, ok maybe I read you wrong but it sure did seem like you were the pretty much implying guilt based on limited knowledge to me.

 

[catharina]

I wear them too.

Its not the one article of clothing that can seem suspicious, but the place and the time. Maybe he thought Martin had a weapon in his hand? Hard dark was it? Would we be havin this same discussion if a white cop had shown up and instigated a conversation with Martin that ended up in Martins death?

Who knows? Maybe, maybe not. Presumably a policeman has the law behind him.
It doesn’t matter really since Zimmerman is not a cop.

 

[catharina]

Yeah, ok maybe I read you wrong but it sure did seem like you were the pretty much implying guilt based on limited knowledge to me.

That was your own presumption (suspicion).

My own son, now almost 40 yrs old, was confronted by two young men with guns.
My son is white, the men were black. In line with well-known advice from law
enforcement, my son tossed his keys in one direction, his suitcase in another
and he ran off in a third direction. This happened when my son was in his twenties.
No harm, no foul, no shooting.

As I said: you don’t know me at all.,

 

[SaintPatrick333]

Black men, especially youth are profiled like no other sub-group and it is time for this ridiculous practice to stop…

I used to be involved in law enforcement classes and wihle crime does not discriminate by race, the fact of the matter is the largest amounts of crime are done by young black men. It isn’t a racial thing, it’s a cultural thing. The whole rap/ghetto culture that gang life thrives on. The quick money, the drugs, the sex that all comes with the status of being in a gang (obviously I’m not referring to Mr. Martin, may he rest in peace). To save these young black men (and other races who fall into the same cultural traps) what society needs is to educate these people. Sadly more than that what they need are solid parental figures. And often is the case they come from a single parent home, which makes it hard on them to grow up in a healthy manner, especially if they are in a bad neighborhood on top of that. I pray Mr. Zimmerman will face justice because even if it ends up being that he defended himself, he still pursued Mr. Martin and thus instigated the confrontation. As far as I’m concerned that’s grounds for premeditation.