Trayvon Martin: 'Shoot first' law under scrutiny

[SwizzleStick]

"Alveda King: Sharpton, Jackson should stop ‘playing race card’ over Trayvon Martin

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.’s niece is criticizing the Rev. Al Sharpton and the Rev. Jesse Jackson for politicizing the Trayvon Martin shooting and leveraging racial tensions to rile up Americans.

Conservative activist Dr. Alveda King, now the director of African-American outreach at Priests for Life and the founder of King For America, said she hopes Sharpton and Jackson stop “stirring up the people without positive solutions” in Sanford, Fla., and elsewhere in the U.S…
…
…“I believe that it should be thoroughly investigated,” she told TheDC. “I believe that it should be discovered whether there was undue force. If Trayvon did work to defend himself, he was not armed and so that is an unfair fight right there. Trayvon was not armed and the man who shot him was. So there is a possibility of undue force.” …

Blue excerpts from article here: dailycaller.com/2012/03/28/alveda-king-sharpton-jackson-should-stop-playing-race-card-over-trayvon-martin/

 

[jen_fla]

Let’s be careful with terminology here, because the phrase “legal definition” is going to sound very official to people who don’t know the law. Law dictionaries are meant as secondary sources; their definitions are persuasive, not binding, unless a jurisdiction implements them.

For example, for purposes of “Juvenile Justice”, the 2011 Florida Statutes (§985.03(6) for reference) states:

“‘Child’ or ‘juvenile’ or ‘youth’ means any unmarried person under the age of 18 who has not been emancipated by order of the court and who has been found or alleged to be dependent, in need of services, or from a family in need of services; or any married or unmarried person who is charged with a violation of law occurring prior to the time that person reached the age of 18 years.”

black’s law dictionary, which is a very reputable source, states (bold emphasis mine)

Definition of CHILD

This word has two meanings in law: (1) In the law of the domestic relations, and as to descent and distribution, it is used strictly as the correlative of “parent,” and means a son or daughter considered as in relation with the father or mother. (2) In the law of negligence, and in laws for the protection of children, etc., it is used as the CHILD 197 CHIROGRAPH opposite of “adult,” and means the young of the human species, (generally under the age of puberty,) without any reference to parentage and without distinction of sex. Miller v. Finegan, 26 Fla. 29, 7 South. 140, 6 L. R. A. 813.

Read more: CHILD | Definition of CHILD (Black’s Law Dictionary)

 

[Dawnia]

black’s law dictionary, which is a very reputable source, states (bold emphasis mine)

It is, but the State’s definition is really the only one that counts for legal purposes.

 

[Faith1960]

My neighbor is a supervisory special agent in the FBI. While politics is important within the administrative levels of the agency, field agents are expected to do their jobs within the constraint of the law. I want justice in this case, real justice. If the legal system, including the federal aspect of it, determines that there is nothing to prosecute Zimmerman on, I think it will be an INjustice if the federal bureaucracy create something just to satisfy the public’s thirst for blood.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the authorities are pressured into coming up with something to arrest Zimmerman on, just to appease the public. If that happens, good luck to him on getting a fair trial.

 

[Faith1960]

If Martin thought he was being followed and was afraid, why didn’t he just go to his father’s house? Why did HE evade Zimmerman and then confront Zimmerman at his truck? Why didn’t he just let Zimmerman go to his truck and drive away? If he thought that Zimmerman was stalking him, why didn’t he call 911?

Exactly. He had his phone right there and not only did he not call the police for help, like Zimmerman did, but as far as we know so far, he didn’t even have his girlfriend call the police for him. Then again, people with a history of criminal behavior do tend to shy away from law enforcement.

 

[johnnyjones]

again and again and again, you have been wrong in stating that he was a child. a child by law is under 14, so martin was not a child. he was a minor.

you can read the legal definition of a child here

**child

n. 1) a person’s natural offspring. 2) a person 14 years and under. A “child” should be distinguished from a “minor” who is anyone under 18 in almost all states.**

now you can state over and over that martin was a minor, but i’m not sure how that relates to this case. just like i could state over and over that zimmerman was a husband and father, but that really doesn’t have anything to do with whom threatened who first.

peace.

Best response yet.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

You know who ticks me off right now?

Fox News. They’re treating this as just another case of “you don’t know what happened.”
CNN, FOX and MSNBC are all corrupt and biased.

Both O’Reilly and Hannity were pushing that meme yesterday evening.

On the other hand, we DO know that Zimmerman has changed his story at least three times-----that he disregarded (we’re pretrty sure of that) distinct instructions by the phone operator to NOT engage Martin-----also that he has a “record”----which includes assault on a POLICE OFFICER and domestoc violence-----------------Far more serious than the attempted smear of Martin with his “record”------(graffiti? Half my high school friends did that------some of them are succesful lawyers and businessmen now. )

Also that he was carrying a gun (yes, I know it’s legal) when it was not within his responsibility as Neighborhood Watch guy to carry---------

They DO NOT mention ANY reason for Zimmerman to be a suspect.

Figures.

Our society has deteriorated to such an extent (and we think in terms of being in a siege now) that “playing for keeps” is the order of the day.

Therefore, if a NON-COP approaches you at night for NO apparent reason--------and you happen to be black and be wearing a hoodie (gasp!!! Thug Gang Member!! ) if you DO NOT FOLLOW THE NON-COP’S INTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER, you will be shot dead. Because wannabe supecops cannot take any chances.

Also Because, you know, we are NOT fooling around------------crime is destroying our society------and that’s the prize black youth pay for being part of a criminal underclass. Unfortunate (but “necessary”) profiling. “Common sense.”

Plus-------again-------society is “playing for keeps.”

I feel totally sick about this. Our society has totally forsaken god and we will pay for it. Surviavl of the fittest-style Darwinism has won.

May God have mercy on our fallen, wretched world and souls.

 

[Faith1960]

Originally Posted by Gift from God
And another thing; Martin was around 140 lbs and Zimmerman is about 250lbs. How could a kid much smaller than him honestly beat him up?

Actually, Zimmerman is said to weigh MUCH less than that, though I forget how much. People are estimating his weight (ie: guessing and speculating) by an older, outdated photo. If I’m not mistaken, Martin weighed more than 140 lbs.

 

[Havard]

It is, but the State’s definition is really the only one that counts for legal purposes.

I’m not even sure if the state’s definition will be a factor in this case. It might have if this were a child abuse case, or if Trayvon were alive to be prosecuted in the juvenile justice system.

But unless I’m missing something, the “legal definition” of child is not an issue here at all, so call him child all you want. Or don’t. Whatever floats your boat.

 

[Havard]

Best response yet.

Except it’s totally misleading, as I pointed out in post #659.

 

[johnnyjones]

You know who ticks me off right now?

Fox News. They’re treating this as just another case of “you don’t know what happened.”
CNN, FOX and MSNBC are all corrupt and biased.

Both O’Reilly and Hannity were pushing that meme yesterday evening.

On the other hand, we DO know that Zimmerman has changed his story at least three times-----that he disregarded (we’re pretrty sure of that) distinct instructions by the phone operator to NOT engage Martin-----also that he has a “record”----which includes assault on a POLICE OFFICER and domestoc violence-----------------Far more serious than the attempted smear of Martin with his “record”------(graffiti? Half my high school friends did that------some of them are succesful lawyers and businessmen now. )

Also that he was carrying a gun (yes, I know it’s legal) when it was not within his responsibility as Neighborhood Watch guy to carry---------

They DO NOT mention ANY reason for Zimmerman to be a suspect.

Figures.

Our society has deteriorated to such an extent (and we think in terms of being in a siege now) that “playing for keeps” is the order of the day.

Therefore, if a NON-COP approaches you at night for NO apparent reason--------and you happen to be black and be wearing a hoodie (gasp!!! Thug Gang Member!! ) if you DO NOT FOLLOW THE NON-COP’S INTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER, you will be shot dead. Because wannabe supecops cannot take any chances.

Also Because, you know, we are NOT fooling around------------crime is destroying our society------and that’s the prize black youth pay for being part of a criminal underclass. Unfortunate (but “necessary”) profiling. “Common sense.”

Plus-------again-------society is “playing for keeps.”

I feel totally sick about this. Our society has totally forsaken god and we will pay for it. Surviavl of the fittest-style Darwinism has won.

May God have mercy on our fallen, wretched world and souls.

Hoodie was used for descriptive purposes, anything to the contrary is speculation.

 

[johnnyjones]

I’m not even sure if the state’s definition will be a factor in this case. It might have if this were a child abuse case, or if Trayvon were alive to be prosecuted in the juvenile justice system.

But unless I’m missing something, the “legal definition” of child is not an issue here at all, so call him child all you want. Or don’t. Whatever floats your boat.

You are correct.

 

[Faith1960]

From Catharina:
The teen was in the neighborhood with his FATHER.

No, he wasn’t. He was going to visit his step-mother. Who knows where his father was. Also, Catharina, could you please type your answers after you put in the quotes instead of adding them to the grey portion of whomever you’re quoting? You’re making it very difficult for us to quote and respond to you.

 

[Dawnia]

I’m not even sure if the state’s definition will be a factor in this case. It might have if this were a child abuse case, or if Trayvon were alive to be prosecuted in the juvenile justice system.

But unless I’m missing something, the “legal definition” of child is not an issue here at all, so call him child all you want. Or don’t. Whatever floats your boat.

I know, just saying, that when it comes to legal definitions, the State’s definition is the only one that is relevant. But I agree in this case it doesn’t really matter. Age isn’t relevant to whether it is manslaughter, murder or self-defense.

 

[Havard]

The teen was in the neighborhood with his FATHER.

No, he wasn’t. He was going to visit his step-mother. Who knows where his father was.

Tracy Martin (his dad) was living with Tracy’s fiancee, Brandy Green in Sanford. Alesha Martin is Trayvon’s stepmom. Sybrina Fulton is his mom.

Edit: corrected spelling of “Brandy”

 

[Faith1960]

You keep posting that as it were fact. But the entire point of a neighborhood watch is to watch. Does that restrict people to their front porches or something? The only “do not follow rules” they have that I can find is that you are not to CHASE a vehicle with your vehicle. Even from your porch you following them with you eyes - is that OK with you?

Please provide the proof of this claim or give it a rest.

The reason they advise a neighborhood watchperson from following someone suspicious looking is for the watchpersons safety.

 

[SamH]

You know who ticks me off right now?

Fox News. They’re treating this as just another case of “you don’t know what happened.”
CNN, FOX and MSNBC are all corrupt and biased.

Both O’Reilly and Hannity were pushing that meme yesterday evening.

And you do know what happened - were you there?

On the other hand, we DO know that Zimmerman has changed his story at least three times-----that he disregarded (we’re pretrty sure of that) distinct instructions by the phone operator to NOT engage Martin-----also that he has a “record”----which includes assault on a POLICE OFFICER and domestoc violence-----------------Far more serious than the attempted smear of Martin with his “record”------(graffiti? Half my high school friends did that------some of them are succesful lawyers and businessmen now. )

If he has a domestic violence conviction how does he legally own a gun?

As for the rest of what you claim to “know” - believing something does not make it a true, otherwise Santa Clause would exist.

 

[Havard]

I know, just saying, that when it comes to legal definitions, the State’s definition is the only one that is relevant. But I agree in this case it doesn’t really matter. Age isn’t relevant to whether it is manslaughter, murder or self-defense.

Agreed.

 

[SamH]

The reason they advise a neighborhood watchperson from following someone suspicious looking is for the watchpersons safety.

I didn’t ask for a reason. I wanted to know where this was a written policy for the neighborhood watch in question.

 

[stevegravy]

Having read hundreds of post I am not sure anyone has seen the truth behind this circus. Do you think anyone cares about Trayvon besides his Mom and Dad who are rushing to get the hoddie franchise up and running.

1. Democrats care, Florida has 27 electoral votes, got to keep the brothers in the fold, what better way to do it except to impart the idea every black in Florida is going to be killed by a white-Hispanic man if Obama isn’t re-elected.
2. Race-baiters care. Not that they are concerned with fostering understanding and tolerance between different ethnic groups. No, they want hate. The New Black Panthers with their million dollar bounty, Spike Lee with publicizing the Zimmerman home address. Al Sharpton of the Tawana Brawley case, Crystal Mangum, and Jena 6 he cares, he has a TV show to promote. Jesse Jackson cares he has to reclaim his point man role as racial arsonist after smack talking gays last year.
3. The media cares they have dead air to fill and what better way to do it except to wring hands over a racial tragedy while they conveniently are silent about Coon a 13 year old white kid who was doused in gasoline and set on fire by black teenagers as they told him he was getting what he deserved. http://www.americanthinker.com/2012..._a_victim_of_his_schools_racist_teaching.html
   Or the Knoxville five http://www.vdare.com/posts/knoxvill...-killer-letalvis-cobbins-gets-a-new-hearing-0 or the Wichita massacre http://www.wichita-massacre.com/ no you don’t hear about these, or the convenient memory lapse of last summer flash mobs.

This whole hand wringing exercise has exploitation written all over it. It reeks of the, “I care because I am a white liberal with guilt all over me so I weep tears for poor Trayvon,” If I am wrong then why not a similar explosion of good news reporting on the Mississippi guilty plea for the murder of a black by three whites. http://articles.cnn.com/2012-03-22/...hate-crimes-law-matthew-shepard?_s=PM:JUSTICE

Trayvon is dead that is sad but so are a whole lot of other people who met violet deaths that day and in the days that followed. Where is the similar outrage?

Regardless, until facts are established in a court of law you really don’t know what happened because you were not there.