Trayvon Martin: 'Shoot first' law under scrutiny

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Please check out post #821 by Sarabande. See for example the innocent black college student caught in a cross-fire and killed on the steps of his church.

Also, one of these past weekends 11 people were killed and some 40 people shot in South Chicago. The youngest victim killed was a 6-y.o. girl; the youngest victim injured by a bullet was a 1-y.o. infant.

Why don’t these crimes become media sensations? Because the shooters are black people, not “white Hispanics”.
 
johnnyjones said:
Do you think all the black people that are shot by others are criminals?
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Yeah - how about the 6-y.o. girl killed in a gang shootout in South Chicago, some 10 days ago? Was she a criminal? Where’s the media? Why isn’t President Obama addressing the little girl’s parents? Why are Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson silent?

And how about Allen Coon, the 13-y.o. white boy from Kansas City, who was attacked on the porch of his home by two older black teenagers one month ago, doused with gasoline, and set on fire? Why isn’t President Obama addressing Allen Coon’s parents? Is Allen Coon’s life less precious than Trayvon Martin’s?
 
Hi all, I’m back from detention and not surprised to see that this thread is rolling steadily along.

Predictably, the public conversation has become focused on race and on reactions to that focus. People have chosen sides, villified a dead child, villified a man who can speak for himself, used the media to villify "the "media, cast aspersions on whole groups of people, criticized the public outrage and those fueling it, and, as if all that were not enough - added politics to the deadly mix.

The fact remains that a kid is dead, an adult has admitted to shooting him, and, were it not for all the hoopla - that would have simply been that. That is the one FACT which outrages me - the failure, after a month, to either file charges or release a complete investigation to explain why charges were not filed.

It bears reflecting on our personal and collective attitudes, when ANY violent death can be dismissed as easily as flicking lint off a jacket; I suggest it is time to ignore distractions and focus on the questions: how and why this attitude emerged in the first place.
 
L_piperatus said:
Please check out post #821 by Sarabande. See for example the innocent black college student caught in a cross-fire and killed on the steps of his church.

Also, one of these past weekends 11 people were killed and some 40 people shot in South Chicago. The youngest victim killed was a 6-y.o. girl; the youngest victim injured by a bullet was a 1-y.o. infant.

Why don’t these crimes become media sensations? Because the shooters are black people, not “white Hispanics”.
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I suggest, as several seem to have suggested to you in the past, that those cases do not become media sensations because they are investigated to the satisfaction of those impacted. I further suggest that that ANY violent death in which investigation is inadequate or cloaked in secrecy, outrages a community and gets tweeted about to the whole world.

That black on black violence is a problem is a fact. That it is not the topic of this thread is also a fact. If black on black violence disturbs you, maybe we can start a new thread for you to air your concerns regarding it. I would be happy to participate.
 
seekerz said:
It bears reflecting on our personal and collective attitudes, when ANY violent death can be dismissed as easily as flicking lint off a jacket; I suggest it is time to ignore distractions and focus on the questions: how and why this attitude emerged in the first place.
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I agree 👍
And I think the answer is by nature we are herd animals and basicly xenophobic.
 
The more I read about this story, the more I uncover the layers; you could write a book about what’s happened over the last month alone. The investigation and some of the reactions to this case are as troubling to me as the case itself.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Scott go to You Tube and view the film. I don’t want to link it, the language is terrible. But there is not a mark on the man. Its not a question of getting it under control. Theres not a mark, bandage nothing, back of head or front of face. Clean clothing? I don’t know, its getting stanger by the minute.

Did you see the East haven case? This crazy behavior does happen. I believe as of recent the commisioner also was fired after a racial remark about going home and eating Tacos. We all would like to think everyones best interest is up front. However, this case stinks and gets worse by the moment.

google.com/url?q=http://articles.courant.com/2012-01-25/news/hc-east-haven-police-fbi-arrests-0125-20120124_1_police-officers-east-haven-civil-rights&sa=U&ei=ead0T8fbBMj50gH15eH_Ag&ved=0CB0QFjAA&sig2=28g3zxtkJ5XalQX0SMRlaw&usg=AFQjCNGRQmPFS5iH_2qKLQSthyI8sxHWnw
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I have to agree that the video seems to speak loudly by what it fails to show.

Perhaps half and hour is enough to recover one’s composure from the twin shocks of being beaten to the point of fearing death AND shooting someone dead - I can’t speak to that with any authority. Surveillance video may not the best way to gauge whether someone’s movements resemble those of a person in shock.

However, scalp wounds tend to bleed copiously, and while I would not expect to see a wound pouring blood, from the description of the beating I might expect to see a couple of Steri-Strips at the minimum. The fact that the public has been left to speculate on all of this, is what most disturbs me. There is no excuse for all the facts not having been made available by the police before we things got to this stage.

Even Zimmerman’s defenders, could offer solid medical information if they so chose, rather than simply hiding behind the race controversy and ‘trust my gut’ character references. A good offense is better than playing catch-up on the defensive.
 
L_piperatus said:
Please check out post #821 by Sarabande. See for example the innocent black college student caught in a cross-fire and killed on the steps of his church.

Also, one of these past weekends 11 people were killed and some 40 people shot in South Chicago. The youngest victim killed was a 6-y.o. girl; the youngest victim injured by a bullet was a 1-y.o. infant.

Why don’t these crimes become media sensations? Because the shooters are black people, not “white Hispanics”.
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Could we say that the investigations in these cases were conducted reasonably?
 
GaryTaylor said:
His lawyer later insisted that Zimmerman’s nose had been broken in his scuffle with 17-year-old Martin. The lawyer, Craig Sonner, said his client felt “one of them was going to die that night,” when he pulled the trigger.

After ABC played the video Wednesday night, participants in the shooting case weighed in.

Martin’s parents, Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin, discussed the video on CNN.

“According to the police report, Zimmerman sustained injuries, but when we looked at this video, it was obvious that there were no visible injuries.” Fulton said. “There was no blood on his shirt.”

Martin observed that Zimmerman’s posture was inconsistent with someone who was injured and had a broken nose. In the video, Zimmerman walks with his head upright, Martin says, which would encourage blood flow, yet none is seen.

The family’s attorney, Benjamin Crump, told CNN that the tape was “a smoking gun.”
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Give me a break. This is getting ridiculous. Are Martin’s parents medical experts that they are spouting this ridiculous amateurish ignorant nonsense? :rolleyes:

Walking with his head upright would encourage blood flow yet none is seen? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Look I’m sorry for the parents but they have turned themselves into public fools speaking foolish nonsense that they quite obviously don’t have a clue about from a medical standpoint!

Worse than Martin’s parents, what the heck are the media doing giving a platform to this medical nonsense? :mad: Soking racial hatred is clearly more important than anything to them. They could have invited a REAL MEDICAL EXPERT to comment on the video, but no, their “medical experts” are Martin’s parents and family lawyer. This is quack journalism and it’s all aimed to stir racial hatred. :mad:
 
L_piperatus said:
Give me a break. This is getting ridiculous. :
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Ridiculous I agree.

The video speaks volumes no one has to say anything, 🤷

But heres an interesting quote.

"Under Florida state law, a heavily armed citizen may slaughter another person he encounters on the street, so long as the shooter believes his life to be in peril. Critics have attacked the law as being too broadly worded. For example, a schizophrenic who believes he’s being molested by Fatty Arbuckle and Oscar the Grouch may open fire on a crowd of innocent bystanders, having perceived the threat in his mind.

Florida officials scoffed: “Issuing a mentally ill person a permit to carry can take up to five days – that’s four days and twenty-three hours longer than the licensing process for a “normal” person. Individuals with past criminal records also face delays – up to three or four hours, sometimes. In our experience, violence-prone schizophrenics and the criminally insane just don’t have that kind of patience. The odds of them being armed are slim to none.” (The Bennington Vale)
 
GaryTaylor said:
Ridiculous I agree.

The video speaks volumes no one has to say anything, 🤷

But heres an interesting quote.

"Under Florida state law, a heavily armed citizen may slaughter another person he encounters on the street, so long as the shooter believes his life to be in peril. Critics have attacked the law as being too broadly worded. For example, a schizophrenic who believes he’s being molested by Fatty Arbuckle and Oscar the Grouch may open fire on a crowd of innocent bystanders, having perceived the threat in his mind.

Florida officials scoffed: “Issuing a mentally ill person a permit to carry can take up to five days – that’s four days and twenty-three hours longer than the licensing process for a normal person. Individuals with past criminal records also face delays – up to three or four hours, sometimes. In our experience, violence-prone schizophrenics and the criminally insane just don’t have that kind of patience. The odds of them being armed are slim to none.” (The Bennington Vale)
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I sincerely hope that is parody.
 
Bezant said:
Could we say that the investigations in these cases were conducted reasonably?
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The FBI will definately be reasonable. If everyone remains calm and collected, I am positive rational thinking will prevail. I think. 😉
 
At the end of the day, I suppose the last thing I can say about this case is that I hope the ongoing federal, state, and county investigations uncover the truth of what really happened.

If Zimmerman is found guilty of any crime, I hope he is prosecuted.

If he is found innocent, I hope he is able to move on with his life.

I hope both families find peace in the outcome.
 
stevegravy said:
I agree 👍
And I think the answer is by nature we are herd animals and basicly xenophobic.
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That’s what I think as well. I said from the beginning that I believe this to be a case of racial profiling (based on the 911 call minus the questionable slur)*** regardless*** of whether or not Zimmerman is racist. I stand more strongly by that assessment even as the parade of friends & neighbors file past.

One neighbor was very obviously bursting with rage over the idea that Zimmerman should not have pursued Martin; he was basically saying: “Come live where I do and then talk”. I get that sentiment, and I believe it based purely on profiling. He alleged that all 8 recently burglaries had been by black guys (the same or different, he didn’t say), a point made very early on by another Zimmerman defender. That, my friends, is the exact definition of racial profiling.

I could pick any crime that is predominant among a particular race and ask myself whether every stranger of that race whom I encounter in the relevant setting, would cause me to quicken my pace, close my account or pull my child out of there? The answer is no. As a minority, I do not have that dubious ‘luxury’ and so have learned to give strangers of the majority race (my area is mainly Hispanic) the benefit of the doubt and meet them with positive expectations. I cannot honestly say that there are no outward factors which would not give me pause, but certainly race would not be the main factor.

For the sake of future social harmony I suggest that it is time for people of all racial groups to similarly learn to deal with their innate fears of strangers in a different skin.
 
scipio337 said:
At the end of the day, I suppose the last thing I can say about this case is that I hope the ongoing federal, state, and county investigations uncover the truth of what really happened.

If Zimmerman is found guilty of any crime, I hope he is prosecuted.

If he is found innocent, I hope he is able to move on with his life.

I hope both families find peace in the outcome.
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I also feel the same way. And if he’s found innocent I would hope everyone could accept that as The End.
 
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