Trayvon Martin: 'Shoot first' law under scrutiny

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seekerz said:
I seem to have had more official information about Casey Anthony’s case in the first hour Nancy Grace dealt with it than I had access to three weeks after Trayvon died. How’s that for police inaction? And BTW, in that case, there is absolutely no evidence it was not simply the botched cover-up of an accidental drowning by people pathologically dissociated from the truth.
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So a network’s decision of what to sensationalize is the measure of the effectiveness of a police investigation? 🤷

Gotcha.
 
Bezant said:
Where have you heard that Martin was involved in petty crimes or violence?
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Chuck Rudd at GPL (who is highly suspicious of the media narrative but remaining largely neutral) reports in a few different places:

glpiggy.net/2012/03/27/why-look-into-trayvon-martins-past/

glpiggy.net/2012/03/27/its-not-the-hoodies-its-no-snitch/

glpiggy.net/2012/03/26/this-cracka-gotta-get-whats-comin-to-em/

glpiggy.net/2012/03/26/trayvon-martin-the-fighter/ (which in turn cites wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/was-trayvon-martin-a-drug-dealer).

He cites Martin’s Twitter account and some entries on his Facebook. The former at least appears to have been deleted recently, but he did pull a few screenshots.
 
Havard said:
There is evidence that he profiled Trayvon as being up to no good, but what is the evidence that he racially profiled Trayvon?
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Did Trayvon fit the profile of a particular miscreant? Did he see Trayvon doing something wrong? Might someone looking around at houses, not simply be disoriented? Why didn’t Zimmerman ask, “Are you lost, can I help you?” No, he immediately assumed the child was up to no good. Don’t drink the Geraldo Kool-Aid: it was not the hoodie…unless Zimmerman doesn’t wear them himself…?

There was no basis other than color, and more than one Zimmerman defender has indicated as much by referring to burglaries allegedly perpetrated in the area by young black males.
 
scipio337 said:
Not to mention, he was “suspicious” of someone “just walking around”…AT 7PM.

You might be a little more suspicious of seeing someone at, say, 2 am, but 7 PM??
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Unless they are acting oddly. If you saw someone at 3 pm say peering in windows, would you ignore it? Or someone standing out in the rain looking around with no apparent destination? I might be more inclined to think they were lost or needed medical attention, but with there being recent break-ins any unknown person might look suspicious.
 
Dawnia said:
Unless they are acting oddly. If you saw someone at 3 pm say peering in windows, would you ignore it? Or someone standing out in the rain looking around with no apparent destination? I might be more inclined to think they were lost or needed medical attention, but with there being recent break-ins any unknown person might look suspicious.
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Did he call in reports on every unknown person?
 
seekerz said:
Did he call in reports on every unknown person?
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If the 42 or 46 calls (however many) to the police in one month figure is accurate, yeah, possibly.

But again, whether Zimmerman is “racist” is a secondary question here. “Hate crimes” laws are enhancements, not crimes in themselves. There needs to be an actual crime for its sentence to be enhanced.
 
sw85 said:
Chuck Rudd at GPL (who is highly suspicious of the media narrative but remaining largely neutral) reports in a few different places:

glpiggy.net/2012/03/27/why-look-into-trayvon-martins-past/

glpiggy.net/2012/03/27/its-not-the-hoodies-its-no-snitch/

glpiggy.net/2012/03/26/this-cracka-gotta-get-whats-comin-to-em/

glpiggy.net/2012/03/26/trayvon-martin-the-fighter/ (which in turn cites wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/was-trayvon-martin-a-drug-dealer).

He cites Martin’s Twitter account and some entries on his Facebook. The former at least appears to have been deleted recently, but he did pull a few screenshots.
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Wow thats a comglomeration of misinformation? A cracker is a cop? I thought that was obsolete slang for the white man?. 🤷 Maybe I’m getting old.
 
seekerz said:
Did Trayvon fit the profile of a particular miscreant? Did he see Trayvon doing something wrong? Might someone looking around at houses, not simply be disoriented? Why didn’t Zimmerman ask, “Are you lost, can I help you?” No, he immediately assumed the child was up to no good. Don’t drink the Geraldo Kool-Aid: it was not the hoodie…unless Zimmerman doesn’t wear them himself…?

There was no basis other than color, and more than one Zimmerman defender has indicated as much by referring to burglaries allegedly perpetrated in the area by young black males.
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No basis but color? Wow. Based on what you know Zimmerman was thinking. Glad your not my judge.
 
sw85 said:
If the 42 or 46 calls (however many) to the police in one month figure is accurate, yeah, possibly.

But again, whether Zimmerman is “racist” is a secondary question here. “Hate crimes” laws are enhancements, not crimes in themselves. There needs to be an actual crime for its sentence to be enhanced.
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One of the first things I stated on this thread is that I have no interest in whether Zimmerman is racist or not. Racial profiling is not necessarily racism; it is a phenomenon not limited to a particular race, and I’m convinced this incident is one example of it.
 
johnnyjones said:
No basis but color? Wow. Based on what you know Zimmerman was thinking. Glad your not my judge.
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There’s nothing to judge, it’s based on what Zimmerman said himself. You have to give the cops a reason you need them to come - and----he----did.
 
johnnyjones said:
No basis but color? Wow. Based on what you know Zimmerman was thinking. Glad your not my judge.
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Right; the important point here is that even if Zimmerman was a racist who was irrationally profiling Martin, he did nothing illegal, and certainly nothing that legally justifies violent assault of the sort he alleges Martin subjected him to.

Again, “hate crimes” are enhancements, not crimes in themselves. Hating someone is not a crime in itself.
 
sw85 said:
He makes pretty clear its a context-sensitive word.
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I suppose if you want to chit-chat on tweeter and face-book and you place yourself in that situation. You have no one to blame but yourself.
 
seekerz said:
The obvious implication (well, I guess, not so obvious) is that Zimmerman could help himself by authorizing his Dad to release those records. It’s a single sheet of paper called an Authorization For Release of Medical Records…
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Only a fool would release medical records to the media, I would think that was obvious.
seekerz said:
Did Trayvon fit the profile of a particular miscreant? Did he see Trayvon doing something wrong? Might someone looking around at houses, not simply be disoriented? Why didn’t Zimmerman ask, “Are you lost, can I help you?” No, he immediately assumed the child was up to no good. Don’t drink the Geraldo Kool-Aid: it was not the hoodie…unless Zimmerman doesn’t wear them himself…?

There was no basis other than color, and more than one Zimmerman defender has indicated as much by referring to burglaries allegedly perpetrated in the area by young black males.
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If I see someone walking, looking around at houses, I would suspect something. In fact, I have called the police when I saw it happen in my neighborhood. 🤷 They came and found out the guy had no good reason to be walking around.

And yes, I have worn and will continue to wear hoodies. Of course I never put the hood up, and I didn’t realize anyone did. In fact, I recently told my son that he didn’t have to worry about the drawstring coming out since no one ever really wore the hood up. 🤷
 
maryjk said:
Only a fool would release medical records to the media, I would think that was obvious.

If I see someone walking, looking around at houses, I would suspect something. In fact, I have called the police when I saw it happen in my neighborhood. 🤷 They came and found out the guy had no good reason to be walking around.

And yes, I have worn and will continue to wear hoodies. Of course I never put the hood up, and I didn’t realize anyone did. In fact, I recently told my son that he didn’t have to worry about the drawstring coming out since no one ever really wore the hood up. 🤷
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Unless I’m greatly mistaken, one reason hoodies exist is to ward off rain/cold. Being a particularly rambunctious critter, my son has never been given an umbrella on a damp day - only a hoodie, just in case he needs to cover his head.
 
seekerz said:
One of the first things I stated on this thread is that I have no interest in whether Zimmerman is racist or not. Racial profiling is not necessarily racism; it is a phenomenon not limited to a particular race, and I’m convinced this incident is one example of it.
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OK, but again, so what?

Even if the absolute worst that can be said about Zimmerman’s motivations for following Martin and calling the police is true, what does that prove? Zimmerman still did nothing illegal and nothing deserving of, apparently, aggravated felony assault. The worst that can be said was that Zimmerman behaved foolishly in following someone has suspected of being dangerous.
 
seekerz said:
There’s nothing to judge, it’s based on what Zimmerman said himself. You have to give the cops a reason you need them to come - and----he----did.
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Yeah, he gave a desription routine to what cops do everyday. Patrol to base- “Black male with hoodie”. Some profiling.
 
maryjk said:
Only a fool would release medical records to the media, I would think that was obvious.
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Only a fool would withhold those records and ask the public to believe his friend’s ‘gut’ instead! :D:D
 
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