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SamH
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I still haven’t seen that guideline - it’s not listed on their website.
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VeritasLuxMea
Guest
Nonsense. Where is the evidence of this claim?
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sw85
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A good question, and another would be “was Zimmerman acting in his capacity as a neighborhood watchman when this happened?”
I dunno how NW works. My impression is that it’s an informal arrangement. One simply makes a commitment to keep an eye out for suspicious behavior and report it to the police. If this is true, I don’t see how those guidelines can be binding in any meaningful sense of the word.
If on the other hand it’s more formal (i.e., you sign up for shifts patrolling the neighborhood)… well, I still can’t see how those guidelines would get Zimmerman in legal trouble, with the possible exception that his membership in that organization might include briefing on the legal duties related to self-defense and thus might preclude him from claiming ignorance of some principle.
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catharina
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I have no idea.
Criminal or Civil or neither - who knows?
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johnnyjones
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Right, Zimmerman shot Martin and you support the the guilt of Zimmerman with your interpretation of how the incident played out. That was from the start, correct. Remember your “could means” are a different language than my “could haves” which you don’t have to like (but are true).
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maryjk
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But by your own reference, the chef was replaced. Are you saying that the new chef has the same problem? Do we know this from his actions? Or simply that he didn’t have Zimmerman arrested.
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Scott_Lafrance
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The Sanford PD replaced their chef? What was wrong with the previous one? I’ve never heard of a police department having its own chef before.
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catharina
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As I said, the Sanford group never joined the national group.
Rather it just called itself Neighborhood Watch. Recent report
from Florida:
articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-24/news/os-trayvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-20120321_1_zimmerman-community-ties-neighborhood-watch
Trayvon Martin: Zimmerman was not following Neighborhood Watch 'rules’
3:24 p.m. EST, March 24, 2012|By Susan Jacobson, Orlando Sentinel
"Neighborhood Watch evokes scenes of get-to-know-you barbecues and folks keeping an eye on neighbors’ homes while they’re out of town or working late.
Until last month, it did not conjure images of teenagers being shot to death by the people who run a program designed to help keep communities safe.
Then George Zimmerman, who coordinated the Neighborhood Watch at a town-house community in Sanford, shot and killed unarmed Miami Gardens high-school student Trayvon Martin on Feb. 26, sparking a collective rage that has spread nationwide and beyond.
Chris Tutko, director of Neighborhood Watch for the National Sheriffs’ Association, said Zimmerman broke some cardinal rules.
First, he approached a stranger he suspected of wrongdoing.
“If you see something suspicious, you report it, you step aside and you let law enforcement do their job,” Tutko said. “This guy went way beyond the call of duty. At the least, he’s overzealous.”
Second, Zimmerman carried a handgun. Police departments and sheriff’s offices that train volunteers advise them never to carry weapons — though Zimmerman broke no laws by doing so because he has a concealed-weapons permit.
“There’s no reason to carry a gun,” Tutko said.
Police said Zimmerman was running an errand in his SUV — with his gun — when he first spotted Trayvon walking back from 7-Eleven about 7:15 p.m. Zimmerman called police to report Trayvon as suspicious, and although a dispatcher said he didn’t need to follow the teen, the two got into a scuffle.
Zimmerman shot Trayvon once in the chest with a 9 mm handgun, officers said. The 17-year-old died steps from the home of his father’s fiancée, where he had been visiting. Zimmerman claimed self-defense and was not arrested. Because of public outrage, a special prosecutor, the U.S. Department of Justice and the FBI are investigating.
Now, with Neighborhood Watch in the spotlight, organizers want people to know what it is — and what it is not.
“I’m disappointed that people are trying to put blame onto the program when it’s not the program’s fault,” said Wendy Dorival, who coordinates volunteer programs, including Neighborhood Watch, for the Sanford police. “Neighborhood Watch is not what took his life away.”
The program was created in 1972 by the National Sheriffs’ Association to help prevent crime as people relocated more often and more women entered the work force, loosening community ties. After the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the initiative expanded to include emergency response, terrorism awareness and disaster preparedness.
Its core mission has not changed, however: to build a sense of togetherness so people care enough to look after one another.
Some Neighborhood Watch groups patrol their communities. Others simply observe in the course of their daily routine and report anything out of the ordinary to law enforcement.
The Neighborhood Watch at Retreat at Twin Lakes, where Zimmerman lived and was chosen as coordinator by his neighbors, was formed in September, Dorival said. It is not registered with the national group, but there is no registration requirement. The Sanford Police Department provides training and community signs, and informs residents about crime trends and prevention.
Zimmerman raised no red flags during an organizational meeting Sept. 22, and no one had complained about him before the shooting, Dorival said.
Sanford and the Volusia County Sheriff’s Office have another volunteer program called Citizens on Patrol. In Volusia, those volunteers ride two to a Sheriff’s Office-issued car. They undergo background and driver checks, an hourlong interview and 60 hours of training.
“We don’t want any cop wannabes or people thinking they’re going out and acting like cops and making arrests,” sheriff’s spokesman Gary Davidson said. “If we think that’s the motivation, we’re going to weed them out.”
Neighborhood Watch, by contrast, is less formal and is run by residents — although volunteers in both programs are told not to confront anyone. Their job is to observe and describe suspicious people or cars to law officers and help make their neighbors aware of problems.
“We tell people, ‘Don’t be a hero,’” Dorival said. “Don’t risk it.”
… ."
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donsnow
Guest
Good afternoon, catharina,
Thank you for your reply.
I reassert, how you dress can land you in jail or ausage a law enforcement officer’s opinion or assessment of you. When I drove cab, and wore a coat and tie, cops treated me differently than when I wore coarser clothing. So, my mother’s wisdom that my appearance would determine how people judge me, and my experience in life, taught me that how we garb our selves make a big difference. Naturally, there is no apology for statement the simple truth, that Trayvon’s hoodie could have started a chain of events that got him killed. Clothes make a difference.
What our mainstream media reports is not an accurate consensus of national opinion. Our mainstream media has compromised itself because of reporting so biased that it cannot be trusted, and that’s the national consensus on American news.
The young man was no longer a boy or child. One poster says he was 6’3" tall. If that’s true, then Trayvon was a weapon unto himself.
Trayvon’s assault on Zimmerman outweighs your “No to gangsta garb rap”. Your “no” is brushed aside by Trayvon’s gangsta behavior.
Trayvon = George because they were both men of different ages. (When I was 17 I was leading a squad of men, most older than me, in an USMC boot camp ) so your argument is not germane to my personal experience.
Catherina, I don’t know where you’re from, but in America, Texas and other states will prosecute 17 year olds as adults, if the circumstances warrant it.
Evidently, you don’t know what citizens in apparently Florida and to my experience in Texas, can or cannot do. Wherever you are, our courts do not have to go by your laws, nor do our citizens have to go by your values. And, that’s the way it should be.
And George Zimmerman was where he was supposed to be doing what he was supposed to do: a potential law enforcement officer on neighborhood watch investigating a suspicious person.
Trayvon in no way compares to a rape victim. Your comparison is apples to oranges.
I would say that Geraldo is not germane to our discussion.
Yes, God loves the hostile British and the uppity Americans; God loves me and God loves you. God loves Trayvon and his family and God loves George Zimmerman and the families that Mr. Zimmerrman was protecting.
God is love
And God’s love
Is good love.
And God’s love illuminates the truth, when the truth is present. Truth without love or grace, is a terrible thing. Grace and love without truth, become flabby and sentimental.
God loves you,
Don
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Scott_Lafrance
Guest
WEll, just a word of warning. If you attempt to bash my head on the ground, I carry a piece.
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EasterJoy
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This post makes me want to throw up.
The deceased young man did not have a juvenile police record. None. That means he was gunned down in the street without ever having been arrested for a crime, and you think this is OK? Would you say the same if someone had gunned down your son after an altercation resulted because your son was chased by a beefy 28 year old with a gun who thought your son was a “real suspicious-looking guy”? How can you post this way, knowing that if the same thing had happened to your son as happened to Trayvon Martin, the whole internet would be clucking clucking clucking with “aha, single mother, no dad around, his parents obviously didn’t value marriage…well, what do you expect from a family life like that?” Yeah, you ought to be hugging your son, because this wasn’t him.
As for Trayvon’s marijauna use, in a 2010 survey of 46,482 students in a nationally representative sample of 396 public and private schools, 21.4 percent of high school seniors used marijuana in the past 30 days. Over 40% of these minors had used alcohol in the last month and over 20% admitted to binge drinking (more than 5 drinks at a time) in the past month. Non-medical use of Vicodin, oxycontin, and adderal were also between 5-10%. (This was an NIH survey: drugabuse.gov/publications/infofacts/high-school-youth-trends)
I think it is pretty safe to say that that odds are NOT that 21% of American high school students are going to wind up “dead or in prison”!! I would also wager that you know some very good parents whose kids used (or are using) marijauna in high school, and even in 8th grade…I’m talking deacons, police officers, school principals, backbones of parishes. I know homeschooled kids who became alcoholics before they had barely gotten college started. If you think that cannot possibly be you or your family, think again.
If you don’t think Trayvon Martin’s parents wouldn’t rather be dead themselves than have lost their son this way, I think you have no heart. Either that or you are just too arrogant to realize that very good parents can have children who experiment with drugs and underage drinking.
Unarmed people don’t deserve to get chased or shot for walking in strange neighborhoods. I’m not saying it is impossible that Zimmerman will be found to have acted within the boundaries of existing Florida law, because the law gives a lot of latitude for “self defense”. I am saying it is not a lot to ask that people who shoot other people without witnesses be put under arrest until a judge or at least a DA decides it is safe to have them back out “on patrol”. That should not be a police decision.
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catharina
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I’m saying “who knows?”
The other incident occurred one yr ago - not 15 yrs ago.
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EasterJoy
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When you start chasing me because you don’t like how I look, I’ll remember that.
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catharina
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Totally, dude.
I’ve seen some toddlers do the same.
Lock 'em up or kill 'em.
I’ve seen some toddlers do the same.
Lock 'em up or kill 'em.
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sw85
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Regarding the italicized part, whether or not that’s true is precisely what remains to be seen here. If Zimmerman’s side of the story is correct he was not “gunned down in the street” but shot in self-defense, and even then as a last resort – after cries for help failed to elicit a response.
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Scott_Lafrance
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I’m not that dumb. Honestly I could care less about neighborhood watches. However, if you violate my person or my property, I don’t care how you are dressed. Either I or someone in my family will ensure that you stop in a hurry.
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qui_est_ce
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SamH
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Source of claim?
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donsnow
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