Trayvon Martin: 'Shoot first' law under scrutiny

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The Sanford PD replaced their chef? What was wrong with the previous one? I’ve never heard of a police department having its own chef before.
Quoted here earlier, and now again:

" … Lee, 52, came on the job in May after the former chief was ousted in the wake of another racial scandal, according to local reports.

In Dec. 2010, a Sanford police lieutenant’s son was caught on tape beating a homeless black man outside a downtown Sanford bar.

Justin Collison was questioned by police at the scene, but was not arrested until a month after the incident, when news stations began airing the video. He was later charged with battery and disorderly conduct… "

Read more: nydailynews.com/news/national/trayvon-martin-case-sanford-police-chief-receives-confidence-vote-city-article-1.1048802#ixzz1qM0HO2zI
 
I have no idea.
Criminal or Civil or neither - who knows?
Here’s what we do know:

Zimmerman was armed. Not something you would do, but many if FL do, and it was fully within the law.

Zimmerman noticed someone he though as “suspicious”, possibly due to racism. Stupid, yes, but I’m not sure if it constitutes a crime (perhaps a civil rights violation?)

Zimmerman followed the person he thought was suspicious. This goes against the neighborhood watch guidelines as set by the Sheriff’s Assn, and the 9/11 dispatcher’s suggestions (not a police officer). Again, pretty stupid, but I’m not sure it rises to the level of a crime.

The rest is unknown, at this point. Either Zimmerman attacked Martin, lost that battle, and shot him, Martin attacked Zimmerman, Zimmerman feared for his life, and shot him, or somewhere in between.
 
Maybe we just go find a pub and throw back a few pints of Guiness?
 
The Sanford PD replaced their chef? What was wrong with the previous one? I’ve never heard of a police department having its own chef before.
WOW.

I missed a letter and you jumped on it.:ouch:

How about we jump on the misuse of their, there and they’re, or your and you’re? Or the numerous other misspellings?👍👍

Chef should have been Chief.

PLEASE FORGIVE ME. :gopray2:
 
Thank you Don, and I can understand that it would be a job policy, given the nature of your work, and liability of the employer,

but without knowing FL law, does this rise to the level of a crime? Either on a municipal or state level?
Hi, again, scipio,

Now, there’s the question of the day. Sir, I also have no earthly idea of Florida law nor of the municipal laws where the incident happened.

God loves you,
Don
 
That is the guideline for all neighborhood watch programs
as presented by the Nat’l Sheriffs Assn Manual on the subject.

However the Sanford group was NOT registered with the national group.
Hi, again, catharina,

Sincere thanks for this information. It’s right in line with my training and experience. And, I allow that the municipality’s associations with other legal organization are germane to this discussion.

So, you just gave me a quite informative post, thanks again.

God loves you,
Don
 
Indeed it does, yet few are accusing Martin of wrong doing. I asked a general question before in this thread. I am wondering if anyone is willing to answer it?

If we assume that GZ made an error in judgment, not saying he did, does that mean he has no right to self defense? Not legally but morally?

How many blows did GZ need to receive before people think he has a right to feel his life is in danger?

Referring to a 6’3" male has a “child” in an attempt shape the conversation seems disingenuous. One of the few “facts” we are aware of is that many are calling for the arrest of GZ. Is that because we all want a fair hearing or is it a rush to judgment based on bias?

I really wonder whether justice can be served in a case like this.
Far too many are wanting GZ to be arrested for this before all the facts are in. It’s slowly coming out to the public that there is more to the events that happened night than it being simply a tragic end that was racially motivated.
 
Hi, again, catharina,

Sincere thanks for this information. It’s right in line with my training and experience. And, I allow that the municipality’s associations with other legal organization are germane to this discussion.

So, you just gave me a quite informative post, thanks again.

God loves you,
Don
Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut Don. Please keep in mind that many refuse to BELIEVE anything but their own interpretation of events in this case. This is the quandry we find ourselves in. With an outlook of that nature it will be a difficult journey for all concerned.
 
Good afternoon, catharina,

Thank you for your reply.

I reassert, how you dress can land you in jail or ausage a law enforcement officer’s opinion or assessment of you. I most certainly agree with that fact. When I drove cab, and wore a coat and tie, cops treated me differently than when I wore coarser clothing. So, my mother’s wisdom that my appearance would determine how people judge me, and my experience in life, taught me that how we garb our selves make a big difference. Naturally, there is no apology for statement the simple truth, that Trayvon’s hoodie could have started a chain of events that got him killed. Clothes make a difference.

What our mainstream media reports is not an accurate consensus of national opinion. Our mainstream media has compromised itself because of reporting so biased that it cannot be trusted, and that’s the national consensus on American news.
The young man was no longer a boy or child. One poster says he was 6’3" tall. If that’s true, then Trayvon was a weapon unto himself. Yet he WAS a boy.
Trayvon’s assault on Zimmerman outweighs your “No to gangsta garb rap”. Your “no” is brushed aside by Trayvon’s gangsta behavior.
Trayvon = George because they were both men of different ages. (When I was 17 I was leading a squad of men, most older than me, in an USMC boot camp ) so your argument is not germane to my personal experience. Yet I fully remember the draft laws: Turn 18 - you’re a man. That has not changed.

Catherina, I don’t know where you’re from, but in America, Texas and other states will prosecute 17 year olds as adults, if the circumstances warrant it. I was raised in Chicago and I’m completely aware that courts can declare a “boy” as an adult. The COURTS can do that - not you, not I, not George. I’ve mentioned that many times in the threads but you are a latecomer.

Evidently, you don’t know what citizens in apparently Florida and to my experience in Texas, can or cannot do. Wherever you are, our courts do not have to go by your laws, nor do our citizens have to go by your values. And, that’s the way it should be.
And George Zimmerman was where he was supposed to be doing what he was supposed to do: a potential law enforcement officer on neighborhood watch investigating a suspicious person. There is no such thing as a “potential law enforcement officer” outside the mind of George Z.

Trayvon in no way compares to a rape victim. Sure he does. He was “dressed all wrong” to be innocent - in the mind of George Z. Your comparison is apples to oranges. I would say that Geraldo is not germane to our discussion. **Geraldo is a bit germane since posters have quoted Geraldo as describing Trayvon dressed in gangster hoodie. This is TWO threads. The first one concluded with 1000 posts. **

Yes, God loves the hostile British and the uppity Americans; God loves me and God loves you. God loves Trayvon and his family and God loves George Zimmerman and the families that Mr. Zimmerrman was protecting.

God is love
And God’s love
Is good love.

And God’s love illuminates the truth, when the truth is present. Truth without love or grace, is a terrible thing. Grace and love without truth, become flabby and sentimental.

God loves you,
Don
I know that God loves me. I know too that I have suggested (repeatedly) all posters pray for both individuals and both families. For obvious reasona (?) I would never live in TX or FL. I won’t even visit there.

PS - I worked for the Dept of Defense during Vietnam.
I’ve worked, at times, for the Dept of Justice since then.


God bless you.
 
This post makes me want to throw up.

The deceased young man did not have a juvenile police record. None. That means he was gunned down in the street without ever having been arrested for a crime, and you think this is OK? Would you say the same if someone had gunned down your son after an altercation resulted because your son was chased by a beefy 28 year old with a gun who thought your son was a “real suspicious-looking guy”? How can you post this way, knowing that if the same thing had happened to your son as happened to Trayvon Martin, the whole internet would be clucking clucking clucking with “aha, single mother, no dad around, his parents obviously didn’t value marriage…well, what do you expect from a family life like that?” Yeah, you ought to be hugging your son, because this wasn’t him.

As for Trayvon’s marijauna use, in a 2010 survey of 46,482 students in a nationally representative sample of 396 public and private schools, 21.4 percent of high school seniors used marijuana in the past 30 days. Over 40% of these minors had used alcohol in the last month and over 20% admitted to binge drinking (more than 5 drinks at a time) in the past month. Non-medical use of Vicodin, oxycontin, and adderal were also between 5-10%. (This was an NIH survey: drugabuse.gov/publications/infofacts/high-school-youth-trends)

I think it is pretty safe to say that that odds are NOT that 21% of American high school students are going to wind up “dead or in prison”!! I would also wager that you know some very good parents whose kids used (or are using) marijauna in high school, and even in 8th grade…I’m talking deacons, police officers, school principals, backbones of parishes. I know homeschooled kids who became alcoholics before they had barely gotten college started. If you think that cannot possibly be you or your family, think again.

If you don’t think Trayvon Martin’s parents wouldn’t rather be dead themselves than have lost their son this way, I think you have no heart. Either that or you are just too arrogant to realize that very good parents can have children who experiment with drugs and underage drinking.

Unarmed people don’t deserve to get chased or shot for walking in strange neighborhoods. I’m not saying it is impossible that Zimmerman will be found to have acted within the boundaries of existing Florida law, because the law gives a lot of latitude for “self defense”. I am saying it is not a lot to ask that people who shoot other people without witnesses be put under arrest until a judge or at least a DA decides it is safe to have them back out “on patrol”. That should not be a police decision.
I agree. Some opinions in these two threads are horrifying to me.
 
Neighborhood watch organizations are not formally regulated by the National Sheriff’s Association (NSA). The NSA just works to help provide them tools so that they can be more effective.

Zimmerman’s taking the law into his own hands would fall more under the issue of obstruction of justice, on the municipal level, which would invoke state law. (If anything, I’m not saying it does.)
 
Far too many are wanting GZ to be arrested for this before all the facts are in. It’s slowly coming out to the public that there is more to the events that happened night than it being simply a tragic end that was racially motivated.
Which is exactly why it is a month later and George Zimmerman was not and has not been arrested. The police know more about this than the MSM, bloggers, posters and protesters combined. They did not have to release all their evidence and now it will make no difference to those who are looking for a reason to hate.
 
Uh-huh.
“Well he looked suspicious to ME.”
“Yeah - cuz you’re one paranoid bloke.”
 
Hi, again, catharina,

Sincere thanks for this information. It’s right in line with my training and experience. And, I allow that the municipality’s associations with other legal organization are germane to this discussion.

So, you just gave me a quite informative post, thanks again.

God loves you,
Don
No problem. With respect, I re-posted info that was already here.
Glad to hear that you appreciate it.
 
Far too many are wanting GZ to be arrested for this before all the facts are in. It’s slowly coming out to the public that there is more to the events that happened night than it being simply a tragic end that was racially motivated.
A fair investigation is being requested - not one done
by a PD mired in racism only one yr ago.

Arest? Who knows? Maybe yes, maybe no.
 
I agree. Some opinions in these two threads are horrifying to me.
Me, too. But in a different way.

You post was in response to a poll that showed how many high school students break the law by smoking pot.

I hold them in the same contempt that I hold Catholics who know it is wrong but use ABC anyway.

Wrong is wrong, it doesn’t matter how many people do it.
 
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