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Dawnia
Guest
That is too funny. It takes a lot more than reporting crime to the police to constitute “acting as an agent of the law”. He was acting as a private citizen.
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sw85
Guest
Re: Sanford police not making an arrest, it’s worth noting they did arrest him. Zimmerman was handcuffed and taken to the police station in a squad car for questioning and his gun was seized. He was not, however, charged, and therefore he was released.
This is very telling. I cannot believe for a second that any police department in America is unaware of extreme sensitivity surrounding even apparent racial issues. These guys get sensitivity training all the time, and they are very aware of the ruinous publicity that could surround them if they make even a single misstep with respect to race.
So the only reason I can imagine that they did not charge Zimmerman is because the case was, in their eyes, so clearly cut-and-dry self-defense that they did not believe they had authority to do so. In other words, they felt that the evidence for a murder or manslaughter charge was so flimsy that they could not suffer the legal liability of charging him with it.
Again, this is very telling – the pressures in legal circles would have been completely against the gratuitous releasing of Zimmerman. That he was released, anyway, is evidence of what I’ve been saying for a while now: that there is absolutely zero reason right now to believe that Zimmerman was doing anything but acting in self-defense.
The evidence against murder charges include (a) Zimmerman’s own injuries numerous injuries to face and back of head, plus the grass stains on his back, (b) the eyewitness testimony of “John,” who confirmed that Martin was on top of Zimmerman pummeling him, (c) the failure of Zimmerman’s gun to cycle, suggesting the slide and barrel were gripped in midst of a struggle, and (d) the apparent lack of injuries to Martin’s body save the gunshot wound. There’s more information still to come out – for instance, was the front of Martin’s body coated in gun powder, as we might expect? What happened in the crucial seconds between Martin hanging up the phone and “John” hearing the cries for help and witnessing the assault? We can piece together a narrative without such information (we know, for instance, that Martin has a history of disciplinary problems, suggesting the possibility that he did in fact throw the first punch), but if there is information to fill in these gaps, they can make the difference.
So far everything adduced to suggest Zimmerman’s guilt is either not legally relevant (his licitly carrying a concealed firearm, his not complying with legally nonbinding suggestions from the police dispatcher or neighborhood watch guidelines, his alleged racism based on a dubious interpretation of a not-very-clear 911 recording – none of which are crimes – and the fact of Martin’s status as a legal minor) or else very dubious (Mary Cutcher’s and Martin’s girlfriend’s purely-auditory testimony paired with their unqualified analyses).
Again, that appraisal can change as more facts come to light. But it is immediately clear, at least on the basis of the evidence presently available to us, that the preferred mainstream media/leftist narrative, that Zimmerman is a vile racist who deliberately hunted down and murdered an innocent kid just for being black, is pretty much meritless.
This is very telling. I cannot believe for a second that any police department in America is unaware of extreme sensitivity surrounding even apparent racial issues. These guys get sensitivity training all the time, and they are very aware of the ruinous publicity that could surround them if they make even a single misstep with respect to race.
So the only reason I can imagine that they did not charge Zimmerman is because the case was, in their eyes, so clearly cut-and-dry self-defense that they did not believe they had authority to do so. In other words, they felt that the evidence for a murder or manslaughter charge was so flimsy that they could not suffer the legal liability of charging him with it.
Again, this is very telling – the pressures in legal circles would have been completely against the gratuitous releasing of Zimmerman. That he was released, anyway, is evidence of what I’ve been saying for a while now: that there is absolutely zero reason right now to believe that Zimmerman was doing anything but acting in self-defense.
The evidence against murder charges include (a) Zimmerman’s own injuries numerous injuries to face and back of head, plus the grass stains on his back, (b) the eyewitness testimony of “John,” who confirmed that Martin was on top of Zimmerman pummeling him, (c) the failure of Zimmerman’s gun to cycle, suggesting the slide and barrel were gripped in midst of a struggle, and (d) the apparent lack of injuries to Martin’s body save the gunshot wound. There’s more information still to come out – for instance, was the front of Martin’s body coated in gun powder, as we might expect? What happened in the crucial seconds between Martin hanging up the phone and “John” hearing the cries for help and witnessing the assault? We can piece together a narrative without such information (we know, for instance, that Martin has a history of disciplinary problems, suggesting the possibility that he did in fact throw the first punch), but if there is information to fill in these gaps, they can make the difference.
So far everything adduced to suggest Zimmerman’s guilt is either not legally relevant (his licitly carrying a concealed firearm, his not complying with legally nonbinding suggestions from the police dispatcher or neighborhood watch guidelines, his alleged racism based on a dubious interpretation of a not-very-clear 911 recording – none of which are crimes – and the fact of Martin’s status as a legal minor) or else very dubious (Mary Cutcher’s and Martin’s girlfriend’s purely-auditory testimony paired with their unqualified analyses).
Again, that appraisal can change as more facts come to light. But it is immediately clear, at least on the basis of the evidence presently available to us, that the preferred mainstream media/leftist narrative, that Zimmerman is a vile racist who deliberately hunted down and murdered an innocent kid just for being black, is pretty much meritless.
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catharina
Guest
As I just quoted in Post 636:
"Sanford cops asked prosecutors to file charges in the Trayvon Martin case, but the Seminole County State Attorney’s office held off.
By Frances Robles
frobles@MiamiHerald.com
SANFORD – Despite public claims that there wasn’t enough probable cause to make a criminal case in the Trayvon Martin killing, early in the investigation the Sanford Police Department requested an arrest warrant from the Seminole County State Attorney’s office, the special prosecutor in the case told The Miami Herald on Tuesday.
A Sanford Police incident report shows the case was categorized as “homicide/negligent manslaughter.”
So the Sanford PD SOUGHT to arrest Z but
the prosecutor did not cough up an arrest warrant.
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jen_fla
Guest
hi. i’ve read through this entire thread and wanted to put in my two cents. not that my opinion matters, but just wanted to say i finally listened to the 911 calls and without a doubt in my mind, what he said was “fk* punks”.
the hard k sound at the end is so obvious to me. i watched how cnn suggested to viewers what the word was. i’m incredibly surprised no one else hears, “punks”. is this the only thing they have to suggest zimmerman was racist?
z was overweight and it does not sound like he was following martin after he told the dispatcher ok.
we all have our opinions on whether or not he should have followed him in the first place. but it seems this all boils down to:
a) did zimmerman (after hanging up) approach martin
b) did zimmerman head back to his car (or even remain where he was) and martin approached him
if the latter occurred, then given the evidence and eye witness testimony, zimmerman had every right to defend himself.
if the former then, i do believe a situation could have occurred where martin felt necessary to defend his life.
either way, both families need prayers and support.
the hard k sound at the end is so obvious to me. i watched how cnn suggested to viewers what the word was. i’m incredibly surprised no one else hears, “punks”. is this the only thing they have to suggest zimmerman was racist?
z was overweight and it does not sound like he was following martin after he told the dispatcher ok.
we all have our opinions on whether or not he should have followed him in the first place. but it seems this all boils down to:
a) did zimmerman (after hanging up) approach martin
b) did zimmerman head back to his car (or even remain where he was) and martin approached him
if the latter occurred, then given the evidence and eye witness testimony, zimmerman had every right to defend himself.
if the former then, i do believe a situation could have occurred where martin felt necessary to defend his life.
either way, both families need prayers and support.
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sw85
Guest
The pressures incumbent on police are no less incumbent on DAs, who face the added pressures of reelection, so my point stands.
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scipio337
Guest
Read the article further. The charges were for “manslaughter”.
Would the public be satisfied with a manslaughter charge?
I’m not sure at this point.
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SamH
Guest
You keep posting that as it were fact. But the entire point of a neighborhood watch is to watch. Does that restrict people to their front porches or something? The only “do not follow rules” they have that I can find is that you are not to CHASE a vehicle with your vehicle. Even from your porch you following them with you eyes - is that OK with you?
Please provide the proof of this claim or give it a rest.
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Scott_Lafrance
Guest
Right, not to mention that prosecutors don’t “cough up” arrest warrants. The police present the prosecutor with evidence. The prosecutor examines the evidence against the proposed charges against the law and determines if the weight of the evidence is strong enough to justify an arrest. They don’t just instruct the police to arrest someone willy-nilly. I mean, imagine if the prosecutor saw what there is to see and in light of the evidence, or lack thereof, or weakness thereof, sees that the shooting victim is underage and says “Oh my!!! This victim is under 18!!! Even though we have a really weak case to arrest him on anything, go out and get this scoundrel and bring him behind the woodshed. Getting to have his day in court is too good for him. We’ll just take care of this ourselves.”
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Scott_Lafrance
Guest
And it appears that Zimmerman was in fact…WATCHING. He was “following” at a distance to see what this young person was doing, without getting close enough to confront him. When he lost track of him, he went back to his truck.
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scipio337
Guest
But wouldn’t this also clear the Sanford Police department of the charges of being “racist”?
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jen_fla
Guest
not for me either. i hear, “fk* punks”.
orlandosentinel.com/videogallery/68871920/News/George-Zimmerman-911-call-reporting-Trayvon-Martin
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Scott_Lafrance
Guest
If the entire Sanford police department took their own lives while being filmed on national TV, it would not be enough for some of the race baiters out there. The apparent lack of rationality on behalf of some people makes me worry for the fate of this country.But wouldn’t this also clear the Sanford Police department of the charges of being “racist”?
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SamH
Guest
No, it just proves they racist towards Hispanics.But wouldn’t this also clear the Sanford Police department of the charges of being “racist”?
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jen_fla
Guest
again and again and again, you have been wrong in stating that he was a child. a child by law is under 14, so martin was not a child. he was a minor.
you can read the legal definition of a child here
**child
n. 1) a person’s natural offspring. 2) a person 14 years and under. A “child” should be distinguished from a “minor” who is anyone under 18 in almost all states.**
now you can state over and over that martin was a minor, but i’m not sure how that relates to this case. just like i could state over and over that zimmerman was a husband and father, but that really doesn’t have anything to do with whom threatened who first.
peace.
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SwizzleStick
Guest
I don’t know if anyone has posted this yet or not, as this thread has gotten really lengthy, really quickly and I haven’t been able to keep up. If it has already been posted, please forgive my duplication.
"Police: Zimmerman says Trayvon decked him with one blow then began hammering his head
With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk, leaving him bloody and battered, law-enforcement authorities told the Orlando Sentinel.
That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say. There have been no reports that a witness saw the initial punch Zimmerman told police about. "…
Blue excerpt taken from article here: articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager
"Police: Zimmerman says Trayvon decked him with one blow then began hammering his head
With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk, leaving him bloody and battered, law-enforcement authorities told the Orlando Sentinel.
That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say. There have been no reports that a witness saw the initial punch Zimmerman told police about. "…
Blue excerpt taken from article here: articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager
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fix
Guest
As was noted in other posts, one punch can kill a person. Then to slam a head into concrete after that does not sound justified considering so far there is no evidence he was attacked. That so many want to act on so little evidence is alarming.
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fix
Guest
Hard to tell how much political influences will decide the fate of the man in question.“Does FLA law allow someone to attack another because they are being followed? Are they allowed to beat on someone until the person yells for help and fears for their life? Just wondering?”
Hard to tell what in the world they allow down there at this point now isn’t it?
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SwizzleStick
Guest
"Trayvon Martin case: Why hasn’t George Zimmerman been arrested?
The lead investigator into the death of Trayvon Martin reportedly thought George Zimmerman should be charged, but legal analysts say police thought they lacked the evidence to do so.
Washington
Why didn’t the Sanford, Fla., police arrest George Zimmerman after he shot Trayvon Martin Feb. 26? That’s a question that today is more relevant than ever amid reports the lead investigator in the case thought Mr. Zimmerman should be charged with manslaughter for his actions.
The investigator, Chris Serino, was unconvinced by Zimmerman’s assertion that he resorted to deadly force in self-defense, according to ABC News. Mr. Serino filed an affidavit to that effect on the night of the killing."…
Blue excerpt from article here: csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/0328/Trayvon-Martin-case-Why-hasn-t-George-Zimmerman-been-arrested
The lead investigator into the death of Trayvon Martin reportedly thought George Zimmerman should be charged, but legal analysts say police thought they lacked the evidence to do so.
Washington
Why didn’t the Sanford, Fla., police arrest George Zimmerman after he shot Trayvon Martin Feb. 26? That’s a question that today is more relevant than ever amid reports the lead investigator in the case thought Mr. Zimmerman should be charged with manslaughter for his actions.
The investigator, Chris Serino, was unconvinced by Zimmerman’s assertion that he resorted to deadly force in self-defense, according to ABC News. Mr. Serino filed an affidavit to that effect on the night of the killing."…
Blue excerpt from article here: csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/0328/Trayvon-Martin-case-Why-hasn-t-George-Zimmerman-been-arrested
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Havard
Guest
Let’s be careful with terminology here, because the phrase “legal definition” is going to sound very official to people who don’t know the law. Law dictionaries are meant as secondary sources; their definitions are persuasive, not binding, unless a jurisdiction implements them.
For example, for purposes of “Juvenile Justice”, the 2011 Florida Statutes (§985.03(6) for reference) states:
“‘Child’ or ‘juvenile’ or ‘youth’ means any unmarried person under the age of 18 who has not been emancipated by order of the court and who has been found or alleged to be dependent, in need of services, or from a family in need of services; or any married or unmarried person who is charged with a violation of law occurring prior to the time that person reached the age of 18 years.”
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