Tridentine in english ?

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Jaypeeto3 said:
The Tridentine Mass in English would be FANTASTIC, with the people doing the responses instead of just the altar boys.
I love the Tridentine Mass in English.
Jaypeeto3
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We are not at Mass for that. We are there to participate in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ offered on the Cross. If you want to tell your own story go to Confession.
 
thistle said:
I don’t understand why people say the NO Mass is not about the sacrifice. For me when I go to Mass the separate consecration of the bread and wine signifies the only time in history that Christ’s blood was separated from his body on the Cross and it is as if we are standing at the foot of the Cross looking up at our crucified Lord. I always think about his sacrifice at Mass.
Then when we receive Communion we are receiving the body, blood, soul and divinity of the Risen, Glorified Lord.
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You have been taught correctly or come from the old school. Some in here that I have talked to say the Mass is a Meal or are being taught that at RCIA.
 
bkovacs said:
Don’t get me wrong I understand what you are saying. But we need to look at reality. In a perfect world that would happen. But we are not living in a perfect world are we. We have to start somewhere, and the Tridentine Mass in English would be a better starting point for people before they migrate to a Latin only Tridentine Mass. Roman Catholics today still want to understand what is being said at the Mass as the Mass is taking place. And for those priests who never learned Latin. They could still perform the Mass. Then later if the majority of people can understand basic Latin. Then more Latin can be added. It would sit better with both sides if an English Tridentine Mass became reality, for the sake of preserving the Tridentine Mass, versus a Latin only Tridentine Mass that only a few may attend, providing one is available, and their is a priest that knows Latin well enough to perform it.
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There are waiting lines to get into the Traditional Seminaries. The Tridentine Mass is exploding and my Parish for one is packed out on Sunday. People drive from 5 states to attend. The one to be concerned with is the N.O. Mass and that is in English and is having alot of problems from abuses to parishes being shut down.
 
I don’t know, but I kinda prefer that Tridentine Mass is to be said as it is, in Latin (but preferably the readings and the homily in the vernacular). Then again, we’ll have to teach the public about the prayers and let the English-Latin Prayerbooks make a comeback.

Though, I do wonder if the readings will that of the Pre-Vatican II or the one in the present lectionary? Will the Calendar of Saints
stay as it is then in these Masses or will the Post-VII be used?
 
bkovacs said:
Sacred:highprayer:
img142.imageshack.us/img142/2839/moskva4vlr1.jpg

NOVUS ORDO Not so sacred:extrahappy:
img243.imageshack.us/img243/6281/mnopixhurricanekrc8.jpg
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Just one little note here, I could see if you put the infamous “clown Mass” in this spot as the big “smoking gun” but did you actually take a look at this picture? This looks as if it’s some medical evac center (my guess is New Orleans). What would those in the top picture do if all of their churches in the area were wiped out in a hurricane and they had no other place available to do Mass? Would it be better for people in these situations not to have Mass? How about in the battlefield?
 
bear06 said:
Just one little note here, I could see if you put the infamous “clown Mass” in this spot as the big “smoking gun” but did you actually take a look at this picture? This looks as if it’s some medical evac center (my guess is New Orleans). What would those in the top picture do if all of their churches in the area were wiped out in a hurricane and they had no other place available to do Mass? Would it be better for people in these situations not to have Mass? How about in the battlefield?
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They could still celebrate outside without a church, even in a disaster.
img241.imageshack.us/img241/8482/p8070700ui3.jpg
 
bkovacs said:
They could still celebrate outside without a church, even in a disaster.
img241.imageshack.us/img241/8482/p8070700ui3.jpg
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Not if it’s raining outside! I’m just saying that it might not be the proper thing to bash a Mass that’s obviously being said in an emergency medical center. It’s not optimum but it just might have been that best that could have been done for the injured and suffering.

Don’t mind me. I’m just sensitive because I’ve been in more than one situation where I have been completely deprived of the Mass. In certain situations, I’d take Mass said on a cardboard box rather than not at all.
 
bear06 said:
Not if it’s raining outside! I’m just saying that it might not be the proper thing to bash a Mass that’s obviously being said in an emergency medical center. It’s not optimum but it just might have been that best that could have been done for the injured and suffering.

Don’t mind me. I’m just sensitive because I’ve been in more than one situation where I have been completely deprived of the Mass. In certain situations, I’d take Mass said on a cardboard box rather than not at all.
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Oh so now were defending the Novus Ordo Mass. Guaranteed he wasn’t saying the Mass in Latin!. Shame on Him!. It’s a disaster so that is an exception!. Is that what you all think?. Guaranteed their will be more Hurricanes to hit New Orleans. You all forget that the Ukranian Orthodox Christians had to deal with the victims of Chernobyl, which mind you was way worse than a Hurricane!. Children who were not born at that time have still suffered because of the effects their parents endured through radiation!. But we still let our faith endure. We don’t give in to liberals and we know our faith. Even if a disaster occurs our worship is still the same. Does not change!. We have holy tradition.
Watch This Slideshow!.
pixelpress.org/chernobyl/
 
And not all the Orthodox celebrate in the vernacular. Maybe in “democratic individuality people-centered” America…but not everywhere. Traditionalists in the East still prefer the liturgical languages. Old Slavonic for the Russian and Serbian, koine Greek for the Byzantine, Ge’ez for the Ethiopians, Syriac for the Syriac etc…

For some traditions the liturgical language may still correspond with the vernacular (Malayam for the Syro-Malankara and Syro-Malabar, Armenian for the Armenians), but for others not. And that’s okay. I prefer the liturgical languages to be used. After all, the Jews still used Hebrew in the temple after Aramaic and Greek became the common tongue…and much of the Divine Liturgy is happening behind the Iconostasis anyway…
 
bkovacs said:
Let me ask you this?. Do the Orthodox ask about the crummy English translations. No they choose the translations that work best with the chanting in the Liturgy as a whole!. I can imagine what it would sound like with people trying to speak Latin properly. Translations are the least of your worries!.
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You don’t seem to get it, DO you. Vernacular has proven to be divisive and non-catholic. Why do you have separate Masses for the congregations in your parish? A real Catholic Mass can be attended and enjoyed by anyone Catholic, by definition.
 
Caesar said:
They dont have to speak Latin. The priest and the servers pray in Latin, the people may silently pray in vernacular if they wish.
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Yes. In fact most of the Canon of the Mass is supposed to be said in a very low voice by the priest anyway. Readings and the sermon is given in the vernacular. Good enough for most of us.
 
bkovacs said:
You seem to forget that allot of the people couldn’t even read let alone speak Latin in the very early church. And Greek is the language of the East. Not every Roman Catholic, has the time to learn a new language.
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Immaterial. Besides Latin is not a new language. Not like Esperanto.

Christianity flourished with the Latin Mass and everywhere it was introduced. And some Greek is still retained in it.

Actually the English Tridentine Mass is an oxymoron. The Council of Trent forbade the vernacular and even Vatican II stated explicitly that Latin be maintained in the liturgy.
 
dts said:
Every priest should know:
  1. The vernacular of their country
  2. English (the language of the modern world; at least well enough to engage in basic communication)
  3. Latin (fluently)
  4. Greek (enough to research and understand Scripture)
  5. Hebrew (enough to research and understand Scripture)
  6. Any other vernacular languages needed in the area where they serve.
They should know these languages even apart from any demands of the liturgy. They should know them for formational and apologetical reasons as well.

In most schools, Protestant preachers are required to learn Greek, Hebrew, and in some cases German and/or Latin.

Those priests, who truly have a calling, won’t shrink from a requirement that they learn the languages of Scripture and the Church. It is shocking that they are not required…
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Its ridiculous to DEMAND that a Priest may have to learn 5 languages.
 
bkovacs said:
You seem to forget that allot of the people couldn’t even read let alone speak Latin in the very early church. And Greek is the language of the East. Not every Roman Catholic, has the time to learn a new language.
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Immaterial.
Besides Latin is not a new language. Not like Esperanto or some other attempts at a common language amongst all.

Christianity flourished with the Latin Mass and everywhere it was introduced. And some Greek is still retained in it.

Actually the English Tridentine Mass is an oxymoron. The Council of Trent forbade the vernacular and even Vatican II stated explicitly that Latin be maintained in the liturgy.

And one more thing. During the period of Vatican II, this type of thinking was VERY liberal. And perhaps still is.
 
BobP123 said:
Immaterial.
Besides Latin is not a new language. Not like Esperanto or some other attempts at a common language amongst all.

Christianity flourished with the Latin Mass and everywhere it was introduced. And some Greek is still retained in it.

Actually the English Tridentine Mass is an oxymoron. The Council of Trent forbade the vernacular and even Vatican II stated explicitly that Latin be maintained in the liturgy.

And one more thing. During the period of Vatican II, this type of thinking was VERY liberal. And perhaps still is.
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If suggesting that the Tridentine Mass be considered in English is considered VERY liberal then what does that say about the Novus Ordo Mass?
 
childofmary1143 said:
Its ridiculous to DEMAND that a Priest may have to learn 5 languages.
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Priests are pretty much mandated to have Latin by the Vatican anyways, and all seminaries require Greek and Hebrew, so thats three there. The knowledge of english I think is asking a bit to much(assuming they are non english speakers).
 
Mmm…I’m really not sure.

I think, sadly, you’d find many seminaries where they didn’t learn any language, or only learn “pastoral” Spanish. Even though Latin is required, I believe. …😦

And even less Greek (though I dont think Greek is strictly speaking required unless you are getting a licentiate or doctorate in Scripture specifically).

But I am really not sure about the Hebrew thing. I dont think it is required, and dont think it ever has been, nor should it be necessarily (except for certain specialties). The Greek Septuagint is used old and new testament as the main basis of the church’s bible (which is why we have the deuterocanonicals)…and unless you are getting a special advanced degree in scripture…I see no reason why Hebrew should be required. It certainly was not part of the traditional curriculum like Latin and probably Greek were…
 
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