Trinity and contradictions in the Holy Bible

[porthos11]

My friend,
like it or not,

You have never searched what the Holy Bible says.

I already posted a lot of verses about,

1. that Father is not Jesus,
2. Jesus is not the Holy Spirit
3. The Holy Spirit is not the Father
4. Father is God
5. Son is God but also Son of The God, that means 2 different Gods.
6. No one posted a verse that says that the Holy Spirit is God.

Read better more carefully. Period

You need to establish what you believe.

How many Gods do you believe there are?

Answer this question first. Before even continuing with the Trinity answer this first. How many Gods are there?

 

[theCardinalbird]

Matthew:

28:19. Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.

 

[luisvera]

So are you, and so may you, personally, i’d much rather take the judgement of men who personally met Jesus, were given authority by Him, literally wrote the Book we’re talking about rather than my own

That’s like if i wrote a novel and i wrote “Johnny was shot in that moment” what i meant to say is he recieved a gun shot, but if you interpret it like he was photographed, but that ain’t right, i wrote it, i know what i meant

 

[luisvera]

Pardon the apparent little detail, but i believe Name should go with a capital N because it’s refering to the Divine, but i don’t know, maybe my english is phony there

 

[theCardinalbird]

Pardon the apparent little detail, but i believe Name should go with a capital N because it’s refering to the Divine, but i don’t know, maybe my english is phony there

Oh. I just copied and pasted that quote from my online Douay Rheimes Bible. I’ll change it because I agree

 

[luisvera]

I love the Douay Rheims

 

[Csst0286]

Douay-Rheims Bible
Gospel According to Saint Luke chapter 1

[28] And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [29] Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be. [30] And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

[31] Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever.
————-
Gospel According to Saint John chapter 1

[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

According to Luke 1:32 and John 1:1

1. Jesus will be called the Son of the most High. The most High, it is God. That means Jesus will be called the Son of the God.
2. Jesus was God and he was with the God.

That means we have 2 Gods. The father God and the Son God.

 

[theCardinalbird]

@Csst0286

I think Catholic answers say something about this Trinity problem:

As the Son of God, Jesus is like us in that he has a Father and we mere human beings have fathers as well. Jesus is infinitely different than us in that he is eternally begotten of his Father, whereas our human fathers precede us in existence. This is an aspect of the great mystery of the Trinity.

In addition, God has revealed himself as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (see Matt. 28:18-20). God is “an eternal exchange of love” (Catechism 221) and has destined us to share in that exchange as his adopted sons and daughters (Catechism 1997).

 

[porthos11]

Douay-Rheims Bible
Gospel According to Saint Luke chapter 1

[28] And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [29] Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be. [30] And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

[31] Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever.
————-
Gospel According to Saint John chapter 1

[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

According to Luke 1:32 and John 1:1

1. Jesus will be called the Son of the most High. The most High, it is God. That means Jesus will be called the Son of the God.
2. Jesus was God and he was with the God.

That means we have 2 Gods. The father God and the Son God.

Then explain Deuteronomy 6:4 and 1st Corinthians 8:4 and 1 Timothy 2:5.

 

[Kei]

I already posted a lot of verses about,

that Father is not Jesus,
Jesus is not the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is not the Father
Father is God
Son is God but also Son of The God, that means 2 different Gods.
No one posted a verse that says that the Holy Spirit is God.

You err in determining that because the Son is God and the Father is God but the Son is not the Father, that there are two Gods. It merely means that they are two Persons. We know there is One God. There are many Bible verses posting about how the Lord your God is One, about how there is no other God but the Lord, etc.

I have a feeling you are not thinking through the teaching on the Trinity.

 

[porthos11]

Csst0286:

I already posted a lot of verses about,

that Father is not Jesus,
Jesus is not the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is not the Father
Father is God
Son is God but also Son of The God, that means 2 different Gods.
No one posted a verse that says that the Holy Spirit is God.

You err in determining that because the Son is God and the Father is God but the Son is not the Father, that there are two Gods. It merely means that they are two Persons. We know there is One God. There are many Bible verses posting about how the Lord your God is One, about how there is no other God but the Lord, etc.

I have a feeling you are not thinking through the teaching on the Trinity.

Let the guy explain the cited passages first. Don’t counter argue right away. Let’s see what he has to say.

So again. Deuteronomy 6:4 and 1st Corinthians 8:4. Let the guy give us his take.

 

[Csst0286]

Douay-Rheims Bible

Book Of Deuteronomy Chapter 6

[4] Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.
———
First Epistle Of Saint Paul To The Corinthians
Chapter 8

[4] But as for the meats that are sacrificed to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no God but one. [5] For although there be that are called gods, either in heaven or on earth (for there be gods many, and lords many).

[1] “Knowledge puffeth up”: Knowledge, without charity and humility, serveth only to puff persons up.

[5] “Gods many”: Reputed for such among the heathens.

[6] Yet to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
——-
According to those verses there is one God the Father and one Lord Jesus.

————
Douay-Rheims Bible
Gospel According to Saint Luke chapter 1

[28] And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [29] Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be. [30] And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

[31] Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever.
————-
Gospel According to Saint John chapter 1

[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

According to Luke 1:32 and John 1:1
Jesus will be called the Son of the most High. The most High, it is God. That means Jesus will be called the Son of the God.
Jesus was God and he was with the God.

 

[porthos11]

Douay-Rheims Bible

Book Of Deuteronomy Chapter 6

[4] Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.
———
First Epistle Of Saint Paul To The Corinthians
Chapter 8

[4] But as for the meats that are sacrificed to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no God but one. [5] For although there be that are called gods, either in heaven or on earth (for there be gods many, and lords many).

[1] “Knowledge puffeth up”: Knowledge, without charity and humility, serveth only to puff persons up.

[5] “Gods many”: Reputed for such among the heathens.

[6] Yet to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
——-
According to those verses there is one God the Father and one Lord Jesus.

————
Douay-Rheims Bible
Gospel According to Saint Luke chapter 1

[28] And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [29] Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be. [30] And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

[31] Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever.
————-
Gospel According to Saint John chapter 1

[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

According to Luke 1:32 and John 1:1
Jesus will be called the Son of the most High. The most High, it is God. That means Jesus will be called the Son of the God.
Jesus was God and he was with the God.

So that means there is only one God. Not two.

 

[pablope]

Still you cannot prove the trinity. You accuse me only that I take verses out of context and I isolate them.
Isn’t the same what you do, to prove me the dogma of trinity?

If you take the Bible alone, then you cannot prove the Trinity, indeed…which is what you are doing.

The Bible cannot speak…it needs a voice.

You need an authoritative voice…in this case, the Council of Nicea 1…to properly determine the interpretation of the verses of Scripture…to prove the Trinity.

And this is what the Catholic Church (both East and West), did at Nicea 1 in 325.

Unless you can claim the someone gave you the authority to interpret the Bible, contrary to what was decided at Nicea I…then you are just really one voice among the many who misinterpret and misuse Scripture passages by taking these out of context.

One more thing ( think it has been posted), the last passage of Matthew, before Jesus ascended…to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Here is my question to you…if the Holy Sprit is not part of the Trinity or God, then why did Jesus instruct the Apostles, to include and state it when baptizing?

 

[theCardinalbird]

According to those verses there is one God the Father and one Lord Jesus.

Yet Jesus also said “I and the Father are one”

He also said in the Gospel of Matthew:

28:19. Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.

Notice how it doesn’t say names. Showing that God is one God in three divine persons

 

[porthos11]

Csst0286:

Still you cannot prove the trinity. You accuse me only that I take verses out of context and I isolate them.
Isn’t the same what you do, to prove me the dogma of trinity?

If you take the Bible alone, then you cannot prove the Trinity, indeed…which is what you are doing.

Yes, you can.

From the Bible alone, you can prove all of the principles and dogmas necessary to the Trinity. Specifically, using the Bible, alone you can prove:

1. There is only one God.
2. That God is Father.
3. That the Father is a Person.
4. That Jesus is a Person.
5. That Jesus is man.
6. That Jesus is God.
7. That Jesus is not the Father.
8. That the Holy Spirit is a Person.
9. That the Holy Spirit is God.
10. That the Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son.

All of these can be directly proven from the Scriptures.

In his efforts and confusion, the OP is being led to the conclusion of polytheism, so until he divests himself of that error, this discussion cannot proceed. We first need to establish, from the Scriptures, that there is only one God.

 

[JoshuaIsLord]

Jesus is not three entities so you will not find him teaching that because it’s not true. Nicaea also did not teach this because it’s not true. Nicaea taught that Jesus is God.

God is three Persons. Jesus is the Second Person of the Trinity. He is not three entities.

If we are strict with our terminology, God is not a person

 

[porthos11]

porthos11:

Jesus is not three entities so you will not find him teaching that because it’s not true. Nicaea also did not teach this because it’s not true. Nicaea taught that Jesus is God.

God is three Persons. Jesus is the Second Person of the Trinity. He is not three entities.

If we are strict with our terminology, God is not a person

Yeah. He is Three.

 

[Csst0286]

That means that

1. the Father is the God and Jesus is the Son of the highest.
2. Jesus is the Son Of the God.

In John 1:1 says also that Jesus is God, which means

that either Jesus is God and Son of the highest God or
that have been made mistakes during translation of the Holy Bible.

 

[Csst0286]

Post a verse that proves that the Holy Spirit is God please.