Troy Davis makes final appeal before execution

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Based upon testimony that has been recanted.
How does one recant physical evidence?

Then there the small matter of Mark MacPhail’s blood on his shorts. The shorts were never allowed to be used in the trial because when his mother allowed the police in her home to search for Troy (she had already helped him elude police) they picked up the shorts he was wearing, apparently her “permission” to search for Davis did not allow the police to take other evidence. His mother allowed the police to take the shorts because she had already washed them and assumed all the blood was gone. It is presumed the blood was splattered on Davis as he stood over Mark MacPhail and shot him a second time in the head.
 
The state did consider the special circumstances of the case, he was essentially given a second trial to prove his innocence, an attempt a federal judge called “smoke and mirrors”. The Pope’s plea was answered. The state upheld the sacredness and dignity of the human life of Mark MacPhail and punished the person that murdered him.
 
I would have no problem with Davis being executed if there was conclusive evidence against him. I think he lost his appeal because the judicial system refused to consider the possibility that police officers are capable of threatening and intimidating witnesses. Perhaps if they had spent a day watching Youtube videos they may have gotten an idea just what police officers are capable of doing.
 
People escape from prison all the time. Shouldn’t the people in the prison have some protection too?
First of all, people don’t escape from prison “all the time” and when they do, they are usually rounded up in very quick time. Yes, of course people in prison should have protection, but you seem to be under the impression that executing people who are usually locked up in death row facilities and do not mingle with average prisoners somehow offers greater protection to the general prison population. Executing prisoners on death row does not provide greater protection for these prisoners or for citizens who are not incarcerated.
 
How does one recant physical evidence?

Then there the small matter of Mark MacPhail’s blood on his shorts. The shorts were never allowed to be used in the trial because when his mother allowed the police in her home to search for Troy (she had already helped him elude police) they picked up the shorts he was wearing, apparently her “permission” to search for Davis did not allow the police to take other evidence. His mother allowed the police to take the shorts because she had already washed them and assumed all the blood was gone. It is presumed the blood was splattered on Davis as he stood over Mark MacPhail and shot him a second time in the head.
Many of those who claimed to have been eye witnesses to the murder recanted their testimony and one person even came forward to claim that he was the actual murderer of Mr. MacPhail. I believe this creates enough doubt to prevent the death penalty from being used in this particular case. If the shorts Mr. Davis was wearing at the time of the murder were not allowed as evidence in his trial, then they are not accepted as physical evidence. They have no place in the trial at all and cannot be used to convict him of anything.
 
The state did consider the special circumstances of the case, he was essentially given a second trial to prove his innocence, an attempt a federal judge called “smoke and mirrors”. The Pope’s plea was answered. The state upheld the sacredness and dignity of the human life of Mark MacPhail and punished the person that murdered him.
How odd that anyone must prove their innocence. I thought the law worked the other way around. The Pope’s plea wasn’t answered. It was ignored. The dignity of human life is never upheld when life is violently taken. It was not upheld when Mr. MacPhail was murdered and it was not upheld when Mr. Davis was executed.
 
I am a simple person with simple thoughts. Killing another human being is wrong–no matter who we are talking about. Therefore the death penalty is wrong.

There are other reasons to be against the death penalty aside from moral grounds though.
  • More than 80 inmates have been freed from Death Row (wrongfully convicted) since it was reinstated. So it’s not fool-proof.
  • It costs more money to kill someone than it does to lock them away forever (and both stop the person from killing again)
  • It promotes killing as a legitimate solution to a problem.
 
I would have no problem with Davis being executed if there was conclusive evidence against him. I think he lost his appeal because the judicial system refused to consider the possibility that police officers are capable of threatening and intimidating witnesses. Perhaps if they had spent a day watching Youtube videos they may have gotten an idea just what police officers are capable of doing.
Davis had more than an appeal; he was given an evidentiary hearing (very rare) to review all the facts and circumstances surrounding the case. During that hearing none of the witnesses stated they were threatened or intimidated by the police. While a few did admit to vague feelings of “pressure” there were no claims of what you allege.
 
How odd that anyone must prove their innocence. I thought the law worked the other way around. The Pope’s plea wasn’t answered. It was ignored. The dignity of human life is never upheld when life is violently taken. It was not upheld when Mr. MacPhail was murdered and it was not upheld when Mr. Davis was executed.
Not odd at all when they’ve already had a trial that convicted them of a crime, the presumption of innocence no longer exists. A jury of their peers has found them guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Members of the Supreme Court and the judge hearing the case agreed there was nothing preseneted that changed the jury’s conclusion.
 
Many of those who claimed to have been eye witnesses to the murder recanted their testimony and one person even came forward to claim that he was the actual murderer of Mr. MacPhail. .
Source of that claim?
 
People escape from prison all the time. Shouldn’t the people in the prison have some protection too?
If there is an alternative available, God demands we take it.
There is no evidence that he was a danger to anyone outside of the prison, and there is likewise no evidence that he was a danger to anyone in the prison either.

In this instance, life in prison was an effective possibility.
We failed to take it.
May God have mercy on our souls.
 
He was convicted by a jury of twelve people (7 black 5 white) who heard 34 prosecution witnesses and 5 defense witnesses after deliberating for two hours. Their decision has been reviewed at least a dozen times over twenty years by the Georgia Supreme Court, the United States Court for the Southern District of Georgia, the United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit and the United States Supreme Courts.

The Supreme Court, for the first time in 50 years, even ordered the Circuit Court to conduct a full evidentially hearing. At that hearing, the defense refused to call the man it accused of the shooting and two of the so-called “re canters” to the stand, even though the court stated it would not consider their affidavits if they did not testify.

I am against the death penalty but this man was not innocent.
 
Roll your eyes all you want, you did specifically say that those on death row aren’t innocent.
Aaaand…what’s your point? And, for the record I rolled my eyes at your comment:
…Or are you saying that if we execute a few innocent people, oh well, too bad?
Kind of a mean thing to say seeing how you don’t know me at ALL.
Given the number of releases we’ve seen, after convictions have been proven faulty, that’s not a good argument for the death penalty.
I didn’t say that it was now did I?
 
There’s no doubt.

Physical evidence that was collected from his mother’s house (bloody shorts that she attempted to clean) was not allowed into the trial.
How does that establish that there was no doubt? Since this evidence was never examined, how do you know that it would have established his guilt?

Maybe he was guilty–but now it’s a moot point, isn’t it?:mad:
Also he was convicted of murdering a second person that night (both physical and eye witness accounts) the same weapon was used to kill both people.
According to the wikipedia article on Davis, no murder weapon was ever recovered. The shell casings matched in the two shootings. Furthermore, Wikipedia says that the first victim, Michael Cooper, was not killed. Perhaps you have other information to offer that you can document?

The weirdest argument I’ve seen on this is that the witnesses who recanted might be lying now, since they obviously aren’t trustworthy.

Precisely. *You don’t kill people on the basis of untrustworthy witnesses! *That should be obvious to anyone with even an elementary sense of justice!!!🤷:mad::rolleyes:

Edwin
 
I am a simple person with simple thoughts. Killing another human being is wrong–no matter who we are talking about. Therefore the death penalty is wrong.

There are other reasons to be against the death penalty aside from moral grounds though.
  • More than 80 inmates have been freed from Death Row (wrongfully convicted) since it was reinstated. So it’s not fool-proof.
  • It costs more money to kill someone than it does to lock them away forever (and both stop the person from killing again)
  • It promotes killing as a legitimate solution to a problem.
Those inmates freed from death row; upon what basis were their verdicts overturned? A lot of overturned verdicts are based on procedural errors of some kind in the trial. In many of them, the state could try the defendant again and (presumably without the errors) get a conviction again. The problem prosecutors have with that is that oftentimes the original witnesses, evidence, etc are no longer around. In order to know how many of the 80 were actually innocent, one would have to know the basis upon which each was overturned and have a full familiarity with the evidence produced at the original trial.

Vacating a conviction does not necessarily mean the person was innocent.
 
My aunt was murdered and raped, and I remember the look on my father’s face when he came home that night after finding out. It was like a huge chunk of his life was suddenly ripped from his being and he would never fully recover from the death of his sister.

However my father did something I never would have expect anyone to do… he forgave the man in court. He forgave him for killing his sister, and didn’t wish the same to him, or to anyone. He thought the man deserved to be locked away for the rest of his life, but to wish death upon anyone is a burden to great to carry.
Yes, thank you for sharing. Your father showed the very definition of Christlike forgiveness.
 
How does that establish that there was no doubt? Since this evidence was never examined, how do you know that it would have established his guilt?

Maybe he was guilty–but now it’s a moot point, isn’t it?:mad:

According to the wikipedia article on Davis, no murder weapon was ever recovered. The shell casings matched in the two shootings. Furthermore, Wikipedia says that the first victim, Michael Cooper, was not killed. Perhaps you have other information to offer that you can document?

The weirdest argument I’ve seen on this is that the witnesses who recanted might be lying now, since they obviously aren’t trustworthy.

Precisely. *You don’t kill people on the basis of untrustworthy witnesses! *That should be obvious to anyone with even an elementary sense of justice!!!🤷:mad::rolleyes:

Edwin
The Supreme court ordered he have a new evidence trial. He was convicted again even with the witnesses recanting.
There were still witnesses that said he was the killer.

Shell casing recovered at the scene were linked to another shooting that Davis was convicted of.
 
How does one recant physical evidence?

Then there the small matter of Mark MacPhail’s blood on his shorts. The shorts were never allowed to be used in the trial because when his mother allowed the police in her home to search for Troy (she had already helped him elude police) they picked up the shorts he was wearing, apparently her “permission” to search for Davis did not allow the police to take other evidence. His mother allowed the police to take the shorts because she had already washed them and assumed all the blood was gone. It is presumed the blood was splattered on Davis as he stood over Mark MacPhail and shot him a second time in the head.
What proof do you have that the blood was MacPhail’s, or that it was blood? This website claims that there is no such proof.

You seem to be sure of many things, and it’s unclear where this certainty comes from:shrug:

Edwin
 
Those inmates freed from death row; upon what basis were their verdicts overturned? A lot of overturned verdicts are based on procedural errors of some kind in the trial. In many of them, the state could try the defendant again and (presumably without the errors) get a conviction again. The problem prosecutors have with that is that oftentimes the original witnesses, evidence, etc are no longer around. In order to know how many of the 80 were actually innocent, one would have to know the basis upon which each was overturned and have a full familiarity with the evidence produced at the original trial.

Vacating a conviction does not necessarily mean the person was innocent.
In the US you don’t need to prove innocence, you need to prove guilt. You are most likely right, some of those overturned verdicts may have been because of procedural errors, but some are innocent people who were wrongly convicted (actually, the number I got for people released from death row was 130, the 80 were listed as “wrongfully convicted”)

Of course, I don’t have all of their stories, nor do I have time to research all of them, but I did find a few:

Ray Krone, released in 2002. Spent 10 years in prison in Arizona, including time on death row, for a murder he did not commit. DNA testing proved his innocence.

Madison Hobley, Aaron Patterson, Stanley Howard and LeRoy Orange, pardoned in 2003. Sent to death row on the basis of “confessions” extracted through the use of torture by former Chicago Police Commander Jon Burge and other Area 2 police officers in Chicago. They were pardoned by outgoing Governor George Ryan, who also commuted the remaining 167 death sentences in Illinois to life imprisonment.

Jonathon Hoffman, exonerated in 2007. Convicted and sentenced to death for the 1995 murder of a jewelry store owner. During Hoffman’s first trial, the state’s key witness, Johnell Porter, made undisclosed deals with the prosecutors for testifying against his cousin. Porter has since recanted his testimony, stating that he lied in order to get back at his cousin for stealing money from him.

Juan Melendez, exonerated in 2002. Juan, who could not afford an attorney, was convicted and sentenced to death within a week even though there was no physical evidence against him. His conviction rested on the testimony of two questionable witnesses–a police informant with an unsavory criminal record and a co-defendant who was threatened with the electric chair but who ultimately received a sentence of two years probation after he testified against Juan at trial and after Juan was convicted and sentenced to death. ad it not been for the fortuitous discovery of a transcript of the taped confession of the real killer sixteen years after Juan was sentenced to death, he almost certainly would have been executed.

If you convict an innocent person and put him in prison, you can release him later. You can’t bring someone back from the dead if you wrongfully convict and then execute.

By the way, for the record, I am not saying Troy Davis was innocent. I am disagreeing with the death penalty on principle.
 
If you convict an innocent person and put him in prison, you can release him later. You can’t bring someone back from the dead if you wrongfully convict and then execute.
This is the point that those who favor the death penalty conveniently overlook. An error can’t be corrected post-execution.
 
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