Trump accuses Obama administration of wiretapping Trump Tower phones

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_Abyssinia said:
BREAKING: Trump says he feels ‘somewhat’ vindicated by House intel chair’s statements on legal surveillance of Trump officials.
twitter.com/ap/status/844630058581065728
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Hmmm “somewhat”?
Sure.

Let’s pretend that “during the campaign, before the sacred election”, really meant “after the sacred election. during the transition”.

Let’s pretend that "tapping my phones meant “eavesdropping on the phones of foreign ambassadors to whom my associates were speaking.”

This will fly, of course, with the the true believers, who believe God sent Trump to save us. Not sure what the others could possibly think of this.

The Putin plan is to cultivate paralyzing division within the US. Well played.
 
dvdjs said:
Hmmm “somewhat”?
Sure.

Let’s pretend that “during the campaign, before the sacred election”, really meant “after the sacred election. during the transition”.

Let’s pretend that "tapping my phones meant “eavesdropping on the phones of foreign ambassadors to whom my associates were speaking.”

This will fly, of course, with the the true believers, who believe God sent Trump to save us. Not sure what the others could possibly think of this.

The Putin plan is to cultivate paralyzing division within the US. Well played.
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We know what he meant as you fall all over yourself with all those words. There is now truth to his allegations and you guys can’t handle it’
 
dvdjs said:
Hmmm “somewhat”?
Sure.

Let’s pretend that “during the campaign, before the sacred election”, really meant “after the sacred election. during the transition”.

Let’s pretend that "tapping my phones meant “eavesdropping on the phones of foreign ambassadors to whom my associates were speaking.”

This will fly, of course, with the the true believers, who believe God sent Trump to save us. Not sure what the others could possibly think of this.

The Putin plan is to cultivate paralyzing division within the US. Well played.
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President Trump should have used the term surveillance. I knew what he meant the minute this started and the media specifically jumped on “wire tap”. Now it appears there was surveillance and President Trump doesn’t sound so paranoid anymore
 
randomuser said:
Trump wasn’t wiretapped. He was proven wrong. Again.
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He was under surveillance. Can’t get around it by saying he wasn’t wire tapped. We are going to find out he was wire tapped as part of the surveillance. Any good surveillance has to include wire taps. Ask the mafia!!!
 
Michael68 said:
He was under surveillance. Can’t get around it by saying he wasn’t wire tapped. We are going to find out he was wire tapped as part of the surveillance. Any good surveillance has to include wire taps. Ask the mafia!!!
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we are all under surveillance
 
lynnvinc said:
Maybe they were just looking at who is going into and coming out of Trump Tower from the outside, and saw Trump & associates go in and out. They would then be “incidental,” not nec the targets of investigation.

Or “eavesdropping” elsewhere, maybe in a public setting.

After all, they are looking for and spying on Russian operatives, who could be anywhere, probably spying on Trump and associates.

This is beginning to sound like the makings of a good spy movie. 🙂
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That’s not what they mean by incidental collection. Incidental collection is when, for example, you are sucking up every electron that goes in or out of the Russian embassy and storing all of that for processing. And upon processing you discover that some of that information involved communications with US persons. Happens all the time. Usually they mitigate the impact of incidental collection by rendering the US person anonymous. E.g., a report may say that a Russian suspected to be a spy had a conversation with “a US person who is believed to be a vendor involved in arranging transportation to South America.” They want to keep the communication, see, because it may be relevant to the analysts tracking this potential spy to know that he is planning to travel to South America.

The problem is that when the “anonymous” description is “a US person who appears to be the Campaign Manager for a US Presidential Candidate,” it is impossible to not know that the person is Paul Manafort.
 
Michael68 said:
Post #967 has the link. Its big news
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Hello.
That I had already responded to on #974.
There is big news here - see eg Schiff’s response.
But it doesn’t have a blessed thing to do with Trump’s claims.
How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. …
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I’d bet a good lawyer could make a great case out of the fact that President Obama was tapping my phones in October, just prior to Election!
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Is it legal for a sitting President to be “wire tapping” a race for president prior to an election? …
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You did notice that Nunes was reporting incidental collection after the election.
 
dvdjs said:
Hello.
That I had already responded to on #974.
There is big news here - see eg Schiff’s response.
But it doesn’t have a blessed thing to do with Trump’s claims.

You did notice that Nunes was reporting incidental collection after the election.
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Surveillance is surveillance. I knew there would be a spin. They just did the same thing on my local news. I guess we’re gonna go back to the " that depends on what the definition of is, is" days.
 
Michael68 said:
Surveillance is surveillance. I knew there would be a spin. They just did the same thing on my local news. I guess we’re gonna go back to the " that depends on what the definition of is, is" days.
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Well Trump did way what he said. There is nothing in Nunes’s remarks that support what Trump actually claimed.

As to squirrely definitions:
Nunes was asked point blank, “Do you think right now that the NSA or a member of the intelligence community was spying on Trump during the transition period?”
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He replied, “Well, I guess it all depends on one’s definitions of spying.“
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Michael68 said:
Surveillance is surveillance. I knew there would be a spin. They just did the same thing on my local news. I guess we’re gonna go back to the " that depends on what the definition of is, is" days.
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I’ll explain what incidental surveillance is to my understanding.

Say in your neighborhood is a store that has a back room where people illegally gamble. The store is functional it sells milk, bread, eggs and pop tarts etc. The police are monitoring the store regarding the gambling. Now say you drive by and you remember you need a loaf of bread. You go in and get the bread. The police who was recording the store regarding the gambling, get a video of you buying bread. That’s incidental. You weren’t part of the investigation.

How I understand, there was surveillance of Russia and Trump was caught because the person he spoke to was under surveillance. Trump wasn’t the specific target. But it doesn’t mean Trump Tower was wiretapped.
 
TMC said:
That’s not what they mean by incidental collection. Incidental collection is when, for example, you are sucking up every electron that goes in or out of the Russian embassy and storing all of that for processing. And upon processing you discover that some of that information involved communications with US persons. Happens all the time. Usually they mitigate the impact of incidental collection by rendering the US person anonymous. E.g., a report may say that a Russian suspected to be a spy had a conversation with “a US person who is believed to be a vendor involved in arranging transportation to South America.” They want to keep the communication, see, because it may be relevant to the analysts tracking this potential spy to know that he is planning to travel to South America.

The problem is that when the “anonymous” description is “a US person who appears to be the Campaign Manager for a US Presidential Candidate,” it is impossible to not know that the person is Paul Manafort.
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But “incidental,” I think, also means that US citizen who was caught up in the dragnet of info gathering was NOT the target of the investigation (which is what I meant by my usage of it).

Now I think (but it is unclear) the problem Nunes had was that those incidental persons were named, which should not have happened … unless … who knows

Someone on TV said that info they were gathering could have just been newspaper articles or such, in which the article could have been about Trump or an associate, so Trump or associate was named, say, in the title (which could not be avoided in citing that article), but was still not the target of the investigation.

Or, the other problem Nunes may have had was that they were spying on someone they should not be spying on. Which doesn’t make sense either, since any of us could be (if even mistakenly) the subject of counterintelligence spying.
 
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