Trump accuses Obama administration of wiretapping Trump Tower phones

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dvdjs said:
Sorry that is a major issue. What they did, how they did it, and how we can resist it are matters that are crucial to the nation, going forward.

That is also a major issue. Schiff’s opening remarks were intriguing to say the least.
Maybe harrowing.
time.com/4706721/comey-hearing-adam-schiff-transcript/

What has been revealed about his campaign manager, Manafort, seems to have legs.
Page, Stone, … We will see.
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So Schiff is still touting the discredited Christopher Steele for Schiff’s pretended fears. Even Bob Woodward, no conservative or Trump lover, called Steele’s “intelligence dossier” “garbage”.

But right now, that’s typical currency of the Trump haters.
 
J_Peterson said:
If everybody’s calls are being recorded than of course Trumps would as well. That’s not what Trump claimed and someone that quit in protest in 2001 isn’t someone that would have first hand knowledge of what Trump is claiming.

Leak away, just make sure to include some evidence.
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I strongly disagree. He’s credible and he has decades of experience with this, as well as first-hand knowledge of lies and government deceptions we won’t be aware of for at least fifty or a hundred years, if ever. And as a matter of interest, I vividly recall Bill Clinton claiming US intelligence agencies were spying on him and harrassing him during his first Presidential campaign, though I can’t find the link anywhere. And I have zero doubts that he wasn’t also correct, so I believe it’s absurd to paint any of this in partisan terms. Trump will do exactly the same thing to his successor, regardless of who that turns out being, and then he or his people will undoubtedly lie and deny it, if they even bother addressing it at all. That’s just how it is. Politics is the filthiest occupation on Earth, and the Five Eyes intelligence alliance (six if you count Israel) is countless gigaparsecs beneath contempt. That’s just the real world.
 
Ridgerunner said:
So Schiff is still touting the discredited Christopher Steele for Schiff’s pretended fears. Even Bob Woodward, no conservative or Trump lover, called Steele’s “intelligence dossier” “garbage”.
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  1. Schiff gave a long narrative. Only three points involved Steele. Not sure what makes you think that this information “touted”.
  2. Please indicate, with authoritative sources, which of the following points from Steele, italicized for clarity, have been “discredited”?
In early July, Carter Page, someone candidate Trump identified as one of his national security advisors, travels to Moscow on a trip approved by the Trump campaign. While in Moscow, he gives a speech critical of the United States and other western countries for what he believes is a hypocritical focus on democratization and efforts to fight corruption.
*
According to Christopher Steele, … tell him that Page has also had a secret meeting with Igor Sechin (SEH-CHIN), CEO of Russian gas giant Rosneft. Sechin is reported to be a former KGB agent and close friend of Putin’s. According to Steele’s Russian sources, Page is offered brokerage fees by Sechin on a deal involving a 19 percent share of the company*. According to Reuters, the sale of a 19.5 percent share in Rosneft later takes place, with unknown purchasers and unknown brokerage fees.
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Also, according to Steele’s Russian sources, the Trump campaign is offered documents damaging to Hillary Clinton, which the Russians would publish through an outlet that gives them deniability, like Wikileaks. The hacked documents would be in exchange for a Trump Administration policy that de-emphasizes Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and instead focuses on criticizing NATO countries for not paying their fare share …
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In the middle of July, Paul Manafort, the Trump campaign manager and someone who was long on the payroll of Pro-Russian Ukrainian interests, attends the Republican Party convention. Carter Page, back from Moscow, also attends the convention. According to Steele, it was Manafort who chose Page to serve as a go-between for the Trump campaign and Russian interests.
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  1. Bob Woodward is entitled to call the dossier garbage. But that is probative of nothing.
  2. The investigation is important to the US and it continues. It is a weird self-indulgence to try to make this seem to be about Trump-hating.
 
Monte_RCMS said:
Nunes is scheduled to brief Trump this afternoon.

Trump was right.

WSJ was wrong.
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I’ve changed my link to an article at politico. I haven’t been following this story super closely so I don’t know who is right at this point.
 
dvdjs said:
. It is a weird self-indulgence to try to make this seem to be about Trump-hating.
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When there is no evidence of Trump colluding with Russia to affect the outcome of the U.S. election, and no evidence that Russia actually did affect any outcomes, asserting that Trump did truly is nothing but Trump hating.

All that’s really known is that someone or other hacked into the DNC emails; possibly as a result of Podesta falling for a common “phishing” expedition, and revealed some pretty distasteful things, including the Dem party’s anti-Catholicism and active efforts to diminish acceptance of Church teachings.

Maybe the Russians did it, and maybe they didn’t. It’s easy, apparently to leave somebody else’s “sign of entry”. Maybe they were looking for something else, didn’t find it, and some disgusted Catholic or other disgusted person disclosed it. If I was a Sanders supporter working for the DNC it sure would have tempted me after I found out how the DNC torpedoed my candidate.

Personally, even if it was the Russians, I’m glad they did it. It probably didn’t change many votes, (and certainly not mine) but it did confirm something I have believed for quite some time. The Dem party is firmly anti-Catholic and actively undermines the Church. But I guess it has to be in order to make Catholics “change their religion” to accommodate abortion on demand, as Hillary famously put it.

And perhaps the Dems now feel the need to obscure the message by claiming somehow that Trump is in league with the messenger.
 
Monte_RCMS said:
Nunes is scheduled to brief Trump this afternoon.
Trump was right.
WSJ was wrong. [You know: WSJ Trump editorial: ‘Like a drunk to an empty gin bottle’…]
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Did you read the article?
Nunes described the surveillance as most likely being “incidental collection.” This can occur when a person inside the United States communicates with a foreign target of U.S. surveillance.
He also said he did not know yet whether the Trump transition team members who were unmasked were communicating from Trump Tower.
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Earlier Wednesday, Trump claimed in a series of Tweets that former President Barack Obama ordered a wiretap of the phones at Trump Tower — something Nunes reiterated on Wednesday did not happen.
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Nothing here supports Trump’s tweets, as much as some would like to cling to them.
 
Monte_RCMS said:
Nunes is scheduled to brief Trump this afternoon.

Trump was right.

WSJ was wrong. [You know: WSJ Trump editorial: ‘Like a drunk to an empty gin bottle’…]

[Can’t make this stuff up.]
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Nunes said that it was done legally and most likely because they were communicating with people under U.S. surveillance. Not sure this is the win Trump was fishing for.
 
Ridgerunner said:
When there is no evidence of Trump colluding with Russia to affect the outcome of the U.S. election, and no evidence that Russia actually did affect any outcomes, asserting that Trump did truly is nothing but Trump hating.
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Now, now … Trump or Trump’s associates?
All that’s really known …
Dem party’s anti-Catholicism and active efforts to diminish acceptance of Church teachings…
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A great pivot. Truly great. It gets to the essence of how a disinformaiton campaign works. You and others claim this as if “credited”. But it is big idea just made a a tiney factoid that does not support it.
The Dem party is firmly anti-Catholic and actively undermines the Church. But I guess it has to be in order to make Catholics “change their religion” to accommodate abortion on demand, as Hillary famously put it.
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Love your combined use of quotes on a snippet and an ad libitum riff “too accommodate…”. Surely you know that what you wrote not aligned with the actual facts.

Wow. I can see were your projection of Trump-hatred comes from. But there is no need to fight the campaign; it is done. What remains to be done is to turn away advantageous rhetoric - no matter how far and unconscionably far it twists and spins facts - and solidifying a level of credibility needed to govern the US. And to get to the bottom of Russian attempts to influence our elections with the goal of preventing it in the future.
 
Ridgerunner said:
The “Russian conspiracy theory” is just silly. Undoubtedly, the Russians would like to influence every election in the U.S., but that’s not the issue. The issue is whether Trump acted in concert with them to actually influence the election in some way. There is zero evidence of that.

It is amusing, though, to see the left now pretend to be anti-Russian (and certainly anti-“commie”) when they spent decades condemning conservatives for it.
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Actually the FBI’s standard for opening an investigation was discussed on Monday, and that threshold is high, considering that they have limited resources. They did say they were investigating whether people associated with the Trump campaign were coordinating with the Russians. Which means they do have some evidence and are continuing to seek out more evidence.

This does not mean Trump himself is being investigated. This does not mean that anyone who is occupying a gov position at this point is being investigated. It could be that IF anyone connected to the Trump campaign (or any other US citizen/resident) were coordinating with the Russians, they are not in any gov position at this point.

Let us pray that Trump himself was not involved and that no one in power now was involved. And hopefully Trump and his team will get on board and support the investigation, call on the American people to be helpful and watchful in this investigation, and root out this insidious interference.

Otherwise the Dems may get the message and start schmoozing with the Russians to get their help and level the playing field ;), and only the Russians will win and the US will lose. :eek:
 
Perhaps the most important personality trait to have in this day and age is tolerance to ambiguity. If you want the truth, go to church and reach higher into the spiritual realm.
 
kat07 said:
No, he said “perhaps” legal.
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Then there’s nothing for your man to be worried about. If it happened and was illegal he will be vindicated.

Perhaps these reports he’s talking about will show up at some point.
 
_Abyssinia said:
twitter.com/ap/status/844630058581065728
BREAKING: Trump says he feels ‘somewhat’ vindicated by House intel chair’s statements on legal surveillance of Trump officials.
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Maybe they were just looking at who is going into and coming out of Trump Tower from the outside, and saw Trump & associates go in and out. They would then be “incidental,” not nec the targets of investigation.

Or “eavesdropping” elsewhere, maybe in a public setting.

After all, they are looking for and spying on Russian operatives, who could be anywhere, probably spying on Trump and associates.

This is beginning to sound like the makings of a good spy movie. 🙂
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