Trump accuses Obama administration of wiretapping Trump Tower phones

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dvdjs said:
Investigate away.
Find facts and stick to them.
What M-RCMS posted deviated sharply from the body of pertinent facts.
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That is great advice! So now we have to wonder why all the Hub Bub over Trump and Russia with ZERO evidence? There is evidence to suggest Hillary and Obama were in cahoots with Russia. You did say facts, right?
 
Did anyone else pick up on one of Trumps twitters…about the “SACRED ELECTION PROCESS”…is this guy for real??..I know some here on CAF treat him as if he’s anointed by God…but this is an affront to all that is sacred…it’s sad that some…and I mean some…of his supporters are in for a nasty shock when they realize he is just a sinner who makes mistakes like anyone else…this is how far politics has become like a religion by some in this country…and that goes for both sides of politics…the first commandment…“you shall have no other gods but me”…has been " trumped " by some here in the US…it’s sad seeing the adulation some are heaping on Trump…I did vote for him by the way…some of his policies I don’t mind…others I don’t like…I’m willing to give him the 4 years to see if he “makes America great” again…I certainly don’t have to fawn over everything he says like some are doing.
 
Peebo said:
Did anyone else pick up on one of Trumps twitters…about the “SACRED ELECTION PROCESS”…is this guy for real??..I know some here on CAF treat him as if he’s anointed by God…but this is an affront to all that is sacred…it’s sad that some…and I mean some…of his supporters are in for a nasty shock when they realize he is just a sinner who makes mistakes like anyone else…this is how far politics has become like a religion by some in this country…and that goes for both sides of politics…the first commandment…“you shall have no other gods but me”…has been " trumped " by some here in the US…it’s sad seeing the adulation some are heaping on Trump…I did vote for him by the way…some of his policies I don’t mind…others I don’t like…I’m willing to give him the 4 years to see if he “makes America great” again…I certainly don’t have to fawn over everything he says like some are doing.
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I think you are overstating the emotions of those ,myself included,who support President Trump. As has been stated numerous times on this Forum by others’ and myself,he was the lesser of two deeply flawed candidates.The only option was to vote for him because he at least offered the hope and promise of putting forth initiaves that align with Conervatives and Catholic/ Christians alike.
It is a sad commentary on the nature of politics in our country that the best that was offered were HC andcDTDT was a reaction to the status quo.The Republicans for the most part brought this on themselves.They love to eat their own.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
Name such a reason for this particular reluctance to disclose where he gets this particular notion from.

No, those articles do not give any evidence that Obama did anything in this regard. They do talk about possible NSA wiretaps, but the NSA does not need Presidential approval for all their actions.

There is a lot that no one knows. That does not mean we need to start surmise what may be in them.
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  1. If there is an on-going investigation or if there will be. We know Trump has requested one from Congress.
  2. No one (on this thread) is claiming the articles state Obama “did it”, I’m not sure where you are getting that from. Once again what the articles do claim as stated is that FISA applications were sought.
  3. The NYT themselves have surmised what’s in the FISA warrants, as have others in the MSM.
As stated you can either believe the MSM’s reporting or believe it’s “fake news” and “fake leaks”.
 
LilyM said:
I don’t think the issue is so much the having ties as the dishonesty from some in the Trump camp (eg Flynn) about the ties they have.
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So speaking once briefly to the Russian Ambassador now means one has ties to them. :rolleyes:

If that’s the case then their are multiple Democratic leaders who must have ties to Russia also.

Funny though, isn’t it, the only leaks and “wiretapping” communications have been targeted specifically on those in the Trump Administration. I think that says a lot!

Why haven’t we heard about the communication that Democrats have had with the Russian Ambassador or Russian officials?

Because the wiretaps weren’t just on the “Russian Ambassador” they were specifically targeting those in the Trump Administration.
 
dvdjs said:
THIS wire tap. The supposed one on Trump that we are talking about. :rolleyes:
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Oh THAT wire tap. Trump and his campaign have been tapped so much, it gets confusing!
BTW, any useful info from the taps? No?
 
Michael68 said:
That is great advice! So now we have to wonder why all the Hub Bub over Trump and Russia with ZERO evidence? There is evidence to suggest Hillary and Obama were in cahoots with Russia. You did say facts, right?
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LOL.
Evidence?
  1. Whatever was presented to the FISA courts and in the hands of the IC to continue looking at the Russia influence in the 1026 campaign and to people associated with Trump’s campaign may not be know to you, but that is not the criterion of its existence.
  2. Not sure what is evidence for “cahoots” nor if “cahoots” constitutes criminal activity.
    But the Trump charge repeated by M-RCMS has been found wanting, factually.
    politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jun/30/donald-trump/donald-trump-inaccurately-suggests-clinton-got-pai/.
Don’t know why people repeat such bologna. Really sad.
 
mwigs said:
They reported on multiple different wiretaps at different times. Fact.:rolleyes:
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Not only that, they wrote about manyk inds of wire. And about many kinds of taps.
But not about the wire tap raised in Trump’s tweet.
Good grief.
 
Michael68 said:
Oh THAT wire tap. Trump and his campaign have been tapped so much, it gets confusing!
BTW, any useful info from the taps? No?
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Trump has been tapped? Breaking news. Then they must have some evidence of his being in cahoots with the Russians. Wow!
 
dvdjs said:
:rolleyes:

The straw man argument that you bring in from the alt-right sites is that the NYT contradicted itself: it had previously reported on the subject of wiretaps and now claims there is not evidence for them.

That is untrue. The artice is clear that what there is no evidence for are the claims of Trump. I understand that when Trump goes all a’twitter minions hve their work cutout for them to make it look like he was making sense. It’s a tough life, especially since it is so easy for others to see right though this.
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Wrong. It’s the NYT argument.

Once again…NYT articles on numerous occasions mentioned and or referred to “wiretaps” and FISA applications on Trump associates as well as a Trump server. This is a fact whether you want to admit it or not.

The quotes from the article I provided are clear - the NYT’s mentions there’s no evidence for Trump to suggest there were wiretaps on either himself OR his associates but NYT themselves obviously believed there were wiretaps since they reported on all of this before even Trump’s tweets.

The NYT is clearly contradicting themselves.
 
dvdjs said:
Not only that, they wrote about manyk inds of wire. And about many kinds of taps.
But not about the wire tap raised in Trump’s tweet.
Good grief.
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Yes, lets ignore the other invasions of privacy!
 
mwigs said:
So speaking once briefly to the Russian Ambassador now means one has ties to them. :rolleyes:

If that’s the case then their are multiple Democratic leaders who must have ties to Russia also.

Funny though, isn’t it, the only leaks and “wiretapping” communications have been targeted specifically on those in the Trump Administration. I think that says a lot!
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It does. It tells us where the IC thinks that the ties go beyond the bounds of propriety.
 
dvdjs said:
Not only that, they wrote about manyk inds of wire. And about many kinds of taps.
But not about the wire tap raised in Trump’s tweet.
Good grief.
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The NYT wrote that their was a wiretap on Trump’ server, which could have been connected to his phone service. They wrote there were taps on the Trump administration - those phones could have been Trump’s phones and his own personal property even if others were using them.

Obama only claims he did not order any wiretaps. Doesn’t mean there weren’t any on Trump and/or that Obama didn’t know about them.

Obama was very clever with his wording.
 
dvdjs said:
Trump has been tapped? Breaking news. Then they must have some evidence of his being in cahoots with the Russians. Wow!
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Oh yeah…Trump is a spy, the guy that met Putin once. :rolleyes: He’s a foreign agent and the Obama Administration had evidence of it, and he was actively engaging in hostile and grave war on the US with the Russians. :rolleyes:

More likely there was as serious misuse of FISA. Potential perjury, withholding information essential to FISA’s willingness to permit gov’t surveillance, and disclosure and FISA information. All crimes and violations of FISA.
 
mwigs said:
Wrong. It’s the NYT argument.

Once again…NYT articles on numerous occasions mentioned and or referred to “wiretaps” and FISA applications on Trump associates as well as a Trump server. This is a fact whether you want to admit it or not.
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Stop the games. I have noted this multiple times.
The quotes from the article I provided are clear - the NYT’s mentions there’s no evidence for Trump to suggest there were wiretaps on either himself OR his associates but NYT themselves obviously believed there were wiretaps since they reported on all of this before even Trump’s tweets.
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  1. The pertinent discussion in the talks Trump et al presenting no evidence, and talks about Trump AND his associates not OR.
  2. One “or” passage involves the hypothetical - pointing out how surpriing it would be - of a President directing wiretapping
I really think that people should just read the article.
nytimes.com/2017/03/04/us/politics/trump-obama-tap-phones.html
 
Michael68 said:
Yeah, it smells of Watergate! Only difference is Democrats are defending it now!
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Or the stink is that current POTUS is …
The guess: March 4, 2017, will end up being a rather consequential day in the presidency of Donald Trump.
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Either: the president used thinly sourced media reports to float a conspiracy theory about his predecessor and he was wrong; or, citing thinly sourced media reports, he overstated the details of an actual investigation into his activities or the activities of those around him, alleging presidential involvement without evidence; or, citing thinly sourced media reports, he accurately accused the former president of doing something highly illegal and accidentally uncovered what would surely be one of the biggest scandals in U.S. history. Whatever the case, the events of the last two days will undoubtedly have lasting effects.
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weeklystandard.com/trumps-wiretap-claims-what-we-know-and-what-we-dont/article/2007096
 
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