He forgot that $1200 stimulus payment that I was counting on. Shake hands with a poor man. I needed that money.
It will come when it comes.
Trump calls out Biden on religion
- Thread starter HomeschoolDad
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It will come when it comes.
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Freddy
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Signed and presented in front of the members at his private golf club. He felt he needed to sign them because he couldn’t get an agreement with the Democrat’s proposal. Which was financially twice as large as Trump’s. The unemployment benefit is dependent on the states paying 25% and is capped at $400. The Dems wanted $600 so he’s actually cut it by a third and is only willing to pay a half.
And he didn’t offer payroll tax cuts. He only deferred them. You’ll still be obliged to pay them.
And the expired moratorium on evictions has not been reinstated. His ‘memo’ simply suggests that federal agencies should look for ways to reduce evictions. Wow.
And guess who controls the purse strings in any case? Congress. Which means that his memos are probably illegal anyway. Someone should have told him.
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pnewton
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That is how I see it, and it something allowable under Roe, though addressable by the states.
I agree it is historic, among other things, though off topic. Try and stick to the topic. Here is the right thread.
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Hume
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Nothing historic about it.
It’s an election year and he’s behind in the polls. Vote-buying is legal if you do it with public money.
(I know, how cynical of me…)
Please do note that I am not calling this “acceptable”, or saying in any way that a woman should have this choice in the first trimester. I am merely saying that in the present social, political, and commonly accepted moral and ethical climate, this is the most that might be possible. I hate to be so lurid, but it is more like terrorists holding 100 people hostage and threatening to kill them all. Finally they relent somewhat, and say they will release 11 of them, but they are still going to kill the remaining 89. Someone objects “no, you have to spare all of them, we’re not going to give in to your demands, it’s either all or nothing”. How do you go to the families of those 11 and say “we’re awfully sorry, but it would have been wrong to save some, and not save all, so your loved ones had to die”?HomeschoolDad:
That is how I see it, and it something allowable under Roe, though addressable by the states.
For the remaining 89 percent of abortions that, sadly, would still remain legal, the task then is to teach, catechize, use logic, induce cognitive dissonance among pro-choice people, remind people of faith (who remain pro-choice) that reality is not always what we can see, or what we can comprehend, but is something beyond that, and use prayer, fasting, penance, Masses, rosaries, offering of sacrifices, and so on, to convert enough people to move beyond even that 11 percent. Work for conversions, pray for conversions, evangelize the One True Catholic Faith without compromise.
(I suppose having more children ourselves might be a plan — to increase our numbers — but in the modern world, even faithful Catholics are convinced that they are having, or have had, exactly as many children as they should, not even a shred of doubt, so I guess that’s not a plan. I guess when I regret not having had more myself, I’m just being a worrywart.)
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buffalo
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Don’t forget Biden is still not clear of the Ukraine criminal investigation. Can he be extradited?
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TheLittleLady
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Then we are back to glass houses
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HolyCrusader007
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Good point. It’s a point that just proves the view that Trump is anti-abortion
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Vico
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Many give a poor moral example, hopefully some repent it.
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TheLittleLady
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No, Mr Trump allows abortion in many cases.
Just like the majority of Americans, he believes in abortion with some limits.
Just like the majority of Americans, he believes in abortion with some limits.
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Dovekin
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Why not “use logic, induce cognitive dissonance among pro-choice people, remind people of faith (who remain pro-choice) that reality is not always what we can see , or what we can comprehend , but is something beyond that” to convince pregnant women not to abort?
You seem intent on converting people so that you can coerce people not to have abortions. That does not seem quite right to me, and I suspect it is why most people do not support the pro-life movement.
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HolyCrusader007
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I’m sorry that was a typo on my part I meant to say Trump is pro abortion
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It’s a “both/and”, not an “either/or”. I want to see all people become convinced of the sanctity of all life from conception onward — both the pregnant women who might be considering abortion, and the voters and legislators.
No, I am intent on converting people so that they can save their souls and give glory to Almighty God both in this life and in the next. Seeing the evil of abortion, and not partaking of it, is just one aspect of that. People do not support the pro-life movement because they do not see abortion as murder in the absolute and objective sense — even if they, themselves, are convinced that abortion is wrong, they are not convinced enough of the “absoluteness” of their belief, to want to prevent other people from doing it. In other words, the right to life that exists in the eyes of secular society from birth through natural death (and some would admit euthanasia, either passive or active), exists in my eyes, and in the eyes of many, from the first instant of conception. There are many people who are uncomfortable with asserting that the majority is wrong. I don’t share that discomfort. Doesn’t bother me a lick.
As I have said elsewhere, a useful thought experiment is to imagine an alternate reality, where 60-70 percent of the population are agreed that parents have the right to end the lives of their children from birth until nine months afterwards. (This would make a good Twilight Zone episode.) Who, then, would be “right”? The right to life from birth to the age of 9 months certainly wouldn’t be one those “beliefs that all good [sic] men hold in common”, which is what our society — infected as it is with Masonic thought — uses as the barometer of what is to be tolerated, and what is not to be tolerated.
For faithful Catholics, living in the social order that we live in right now, where human life can be taken because it is in utero, is every bit as bizarre as any Twilight Zone episode you could name.
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Dovekin
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Only because you have such a bizarre concept of the social order and of Catholicism.
The useful thought experiment is to consider the discussions that would result if you talked about how you would “prevent other people from doing it.“ Do not talk about abortion as murder, talk about what you want people to do to prevent it. Then you might understand why people are not convinced of the absoluteness of the murder, and have a better chance of convincing them of something like your position.
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NevermoreLenore
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As a woman–one who has had multiple pregnancies, childbirth experiences, and could still get pregnant–it is hard for me to hear/read MEN discussing what ‘should’ be. I will tell you that my beliefs are consistent with Catholic teaching, but when men discuss a uniquely female experience it raises my hackles. It is so easy to split hairs and decide an ectopic pregnancy or another life-threatening issue that arise must in every way possible preserve a fetus/unborn child, even if the woman could die. I had high risk pregnancies and it is no small burden considering you might die and leave the children you have motherless.
Again, I am not saying your conclusions are wrong. But perhaps you shouldn’t be the ones in the front of the crowd. Oh, I know that many will respond ‘I’ll say whatever to save lives’ but you are not likely to win over many women, especially non catholic women. Just something to consider…
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I would have to have a lot more elaboration on this comment, before I could even begin to address it.HomeschoolDad:
Only because you have such a bizarre concept of the social order and of Catholicism.
Was Rerum novarum bizarre? The Syllabus of Errors of Pius IX? Is traditional Catholic social doctrine bizarre? What would Leo XIII have said about abortion being legal until the time of birth, and Catholics not lifting a finger to try to change the laws, regardless of whether it is a society that is not Catholic?
I acknowledge truth wherever I find it. I do concede, if you call people murderers, you are not doing much to win friends and influence people. But I think it is very helpful, to show these people precisely what you think abortion is, to engage them as to why they don’t see it that way, to explain why we do see it that way, why we are compelled by our conscience (there’s that word again!) to try to prevent it, and to get them to acknowledge that our concern is not without merit. You and I might actually come very close to agreeing after all.
I hear what you are saying, and your point does have merit, but as a former fetus (and a male one at that) whose life wouldn’t have been worth a plugged nickel if I’d had a mother who didn’t want me in her body, and it had been after Roe v Wade in 1973, I think it is entirely possible for me to say what should and should not be done about pregnancies. So should anybody else.HomeschoolDad:
As a woman–one who has had multiple pregnancies, childbirth experiences, and could still get pregnant–it is hard for me to hear/read MEN discussing what ‘should’ be. I will tell you that my beliefs are consistent with Catholic teaching, but when men discuss a uniquely female experience it raises my hackles. It is so easy to split hairs and decide an ectopic pregnancy or another life-threatening issue that arise must in every way possible preserve a fetus/unborn child, even if the woman could die. I had high risk pregnancies and it is no small burden considering you might die and leave the children you have motherless.
Again, I am not saying your conclusions are wrong. But perhaps you shouldn’t be the ones in the front of the crowd. Oh, I know that many will respond ‘I’ll say whatever to save lives’ but you are not likely to win over many women, especially non catholic women. Just something to consider…
Most excellent comment. Thanks for bringing that up. But we need a supermajority first. Birth rates not far beyond replacement level don’t help matters any. Evangelization and calling upon Almighty God to inspire conversions is also a plan.
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NevermoreLenore
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I find your post extremely offensive, vicious, and accusatory. You proved my point. Why did you drag out the feminism trope? I personally am not a feminist. Why did that enter your head? Did you miss that I specifically stated that my beliefs were consistent with Catholic beliefs?
As far as I know, no man has ever grown a new life within his womb, nor does he even have a womb…
What is all of this ‘you’ nonsense? I resent deeply your accusations and tone. You’re being so condescending and, frankly, you are showing how little you think of me and all women.
This is precisely why you should sit down and listen. If you say ‘abortion is murder!’ without considering why a woman would consider abortion and ways to mitigate those reasons, you’re not only being ineffective, but you’re an actual detriment to your cause. Nothing I say will give you pause, though, because you ‘don’t care [what I] think’.
Again, I didn’t say men shouldn’t speak, but if they actually LISTENED and let women speak ABOUT A UNIQUELY FEMALE EXPERIENCE you are much more likely to reduce abortion. My husband is every bit as important as I am as a parent to our children–I will never dispute that–but even he acknowledges that carrying and birthing a child is something that was beautiful to witness but completely foreign to him, an experience he’ll never fully understand. Do you know what it is like knowing every substance you ingest or inhale can damage you much-wanted baby? Do you know what it’s like to vomit for hours on end for months (I was sick throughout my pregnancy and it is all-day-sickness, not morning sickness)? Do you know what it’s like to feel a pain and instantly fear something is wrong? Do you know the joy of new life kicking inside of you? Do you understand how terrifying childbirth is, especially when you’re a high risk mother? Do you have any clue to the mix of pain and joy a woman experiences during and after birthing a new life? I implore you to not dismiss this as the feminism it is NOT and really consider that a woman just might have something to say about an experience unique to her from which you can learn. If your goal is to reduce abortion, would it not serve to listen to the needs of the only ones who would seek one?
As far as I know, no man has ever grown a new life within his womb, nor does he even have a womb…
What is all of this ‘you’ nonsense? I resent deeply your accusations and tone. You’re being so condescending and, frankly, you are showing how little you think of me and all women.
This is precisely why you should sit down and listen. If you say ‘abortion is murder!’ without considering why a woman would consider abortion and ways to mitigate those reasons, you’re not only being ineffective, but you’re an actual detriment to your cause. Nothing I say will give you pause, though, because you ‘don’t care [what I] think’.
Again, I didn’t say men shouldn’t speak, but if they actually LISTENED and let women speak ABOUT A UNIQUELY FEMALE EXPERIENCE you are much more likely to reduce abortion. My husband is every bit as important as I am as a parent to our children–I will never dispute that–but even he acknowledges that carrying and birthing a child is something that was beautiful to witness but completely foreign to him, an experience he’ll never fully understand. Do you know what it is like knowing every substance you ingest or inhale can damage you much-wanted baby? Do you know what it’s like to vomit for hours on end for months (I was sick throughout my pregnancy and it is all-day-sickness, not morning sickness)? Do you know what it’s like to feel a pain and instantly fear something is wrong? Do you know the joy of new life kicking inside of you? Do you understand how terrifying childbirth is, especially when you’re a high risk mother? Do you have any clue to the mix of pain and joy a woman experiences during and after birthing a new life? I implore you to not dismiss this as the feminism it is NOT and really consider that a woman just might have something to say about an experience unique to her from which you can learn. If your goal is to reduce abortion, would it not serve to listen to the needs of the only ones who would seek one?
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NevermoreLenore
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This doesn’t count, boys. :woman_facepalming:t2:
You don’t know what it is like to be pregnant. If you try to understand as best as you can–which means LISTENING to those who do know pregnancy firsthand–I think you’d be surprised by how much more effective you will be at reaching women. But don’t take my word for it…I’m just a woman and if I speak for myself and other women I am a part of evil
Personal note to @HomeschoolDad:
Whilst I have a differing point of view on the current topic (regarding method, not outcome) I always appreciate your civility and willingness to engage in thought experiments.
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NevermoreLenore
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The fact that you keep doubling down on your point, even explicitly stating you don’t care what I think nor how condescending you’ve been or how deeply are your offensive accusations, tells me there is no point in engaging with you. For the final time, if your goal is to reduce abortion and I am telling you a more effective way to accomplish that worthy goal, why are you so dismissive? Because I’m a woman? I think this is a real possibility. Because it’s easier to ‘speak the truth!’ than to listen to another person and learn from her? Yep. Because it is easier to do prolife activism than to sit with a young girl or woman who is pregnant and helping her find a way to keep her baby? to offer her hope and understanding? Yep, again.
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