Trump denies Covid-19 surge even as virus spreads among Pence's inner circle

[Jeanne_S]

Neither my sister or brother Un law received any treatment.they were told to call 911 if their symptoms worsened or just go straight to the hospital.

 

[Dobby]

Yep. That about sums it up. Stop all the Covid testing, and the virus just “goes away”.

 

[Cathoholic]

LeafByNiggle . . .

Those same people in the same state of health would probably also be sent home today too.

I disagree.

LeafByNiggle is attempting to pretend the medical management strategies in treating the corona virus patient is the same as it was six months ago (even regarding who is and is not hospitalized).

LeafByNiggle is wrong.

Leaf. Go ahead and think whatever you want though.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle is attempting to pretend the medical management strategies in treating the corona virus patient…

Just as Catholic was pretending to understand coronavirus management strategies in light of better treatment. Remember, the only issue in question was hospital admission policy.

 

[Cathoholic]

LeafByNiggle . . .

Just as Catholic was pretending to understand coronavirus management strategies in light of better treatment.

You don’t need to know management strategies.

Just talk to your friends and neighbors that had corona virus early, vrs. Yiur friends and neighbors who had cirona virus late.

Remember, the only issue in question was hospital admission policy.

Remember. Admission vrs. NO ADMISSION is a reflection of some (not “all”) treatments.

You don’t send someone home when you intend on giving them IV steroids for example.

You don’t even send them home with nebulized steroids in some cases.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Boiled down to its essence, the post above is a continued attempt to dismiss increased hospitalizations as not showing a real increase in infections. It is still based on assumptions that don’t make sense, such as “people we would have sent home are now being put in the hospital.” There is absolutely no evidence that such a thing is happening. We do have better treatments for the seriously ill patients now, but at no time did hospitals ever send seriously ill patients home to die. The only ones they sent home were patients with mild symptoms. And they still do that today (unless you are the President, in which case even with mild symptoms you get every treatment there is). Some hospitals in rural areas are at the breaking point. Cases are rising because infections are rising because people are not taking care. If people don’t start taking care, states and cities will have no choice but to return to draconian lockdowns. Let’s try to avoid that by doing what we can to fight this virus together and stop deny it is a problem.

 

[Cathoholic]

LeafByNiggle . . .

Boiled down to its essence, the post above is a continued attempt to dismiss increased hospitalizations as not showing a real increase in infections.

No attempt to “dismiss” anything except an oversimplified presentation of attempting to blame Trump for increased hospitalizations when at least increased infections are occurring WORLDWIDE.

There are MORE factors going on here.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle . . .

Boiled down to its essence, the post above is a continued attempt to dismiss increased hospitalizations as not showing a real increase in infections.

There’s Cathoholic changing my premise. For now I will settle for an admission that hospitalizations are indeed rising due to rising infections and rising spread of the virus, and leave the issue of who is to blame for another day.

 

[Cathoholic]

LeafByNiggle . . .

There’s Cathoholic changing my premise.

It is not your premise. It is the media’s premise (but you may have fallen for it).

Hint: Look at the title of this thread to at least get an idea of this concept. (Admittedly the cause and effect is not in the title here. Just a hint of the media’s phony cause and effect implication.)

For now I will settle for an admission that hospitalizations are indeed rising due to rising infections and rising spread of the virus, and leave the issue of who is to blame for another day.

“Rising” compared to what? When?

And if you are so sure that cases are rising,
WHY aren’t we seeing a proprtionate rise in death?

(There are possible reasons for this, but they don’t sit well with the media that feeds people these partial-truth ideas that you have seemed to accept.)

 

[LeafByNiggle]

“Rising” compared to what? When?

And if you are so sure that cases are rising,
WHY aren’t we seeing a proprtionate rise in death?

Actually, we are, with a 2-3 week lag. Deaths in Minnesota, where I live, had fallen to single digits per day a couple of months ago. We are now back up into the 10-20 per day range. The surge is real. Now if you are comparing with death rates back in April and June, that was before we learned more about treatment, which you have already admitted to knowing about.

 

[BigBoom]

It’s all in how you play with the numbers. Let’s say you have 100 people and are only able to test 3 of them. Of those 3, 2 test positive. On one hand you can state that only 2% of the original 100 tested positive so things are good. On the other, more accurate hand, you can say that 66% of those tested were positive which is more concerning.

Now, let’s say you have another group of 100 people and test 60 of them. Of those 60, 20 test positive. Which case is better? Yes, even those 20 tested positive, which is 20% of the group, only 33% of those tested tested positive which would be more accurate.

So yes, with more testing comes more positive, but it does not accurately reflect the numbers.

 

[Peebo]

Actually infections are not increasing WORLDWIDE, maybe here in the US and Europe, and elsewhere, but not WORLDWIDE.

 

[Cathoholic]

LeafByNiggle . . .

Deaths in Minnesota, where I live, had fallen to single digits per day a couple of months ago. We are now back up into the 10-20 per day range.

How many cases a day on the average in MN in the month of June? Deaths?

How many cases a day on the average in MN in the month of September? Deaths?

(Some of this is clearly seasonal Leaf.)

 

[Zake]

Actually infections are not increasing WORLDWIDE, maybe here in the US and Europe, and elsewhere, but not WORLDWIDE.

Thanks for the good laugh! US, Europe and elsewhere, but not worldwide? What did it miss? Antarctica?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Deaths are a lagging statistic. If, as seems to be the case, the new cases in Europe are higher than ours per capita, then the death rates will follow.

As of the latest I have seen, the U.S. death rate per capita is surpassed by UK, France, Italy, Belgium, Spain and a number of non first world countries. Some countries’ reporting can’t be believed (e.g. China, North Korea, Russia, Iran) I don’t think anybody can reliably “rank” countries until Covid dies down a lot more than it has so far. And even then, the dictatorships will probably be falsely ranked low.

 

[Peebo]

Zake

1h

Actually infections are not increasing WORLDWIDE, maybe here in the US and Europe, and elsewhere, but not WORLDWIDE.

Thanks for the good laugh! US , Europe and elsewhere , but not worldwide? What did it miss? Antarctica?

Glad you had a good laugh, it helps relieve stress…elsewhere can mean, South America. Asia, Japan, Pacific Islands etc. But there are countries within those continents that Covid is not increasing, as there are other countries like New Zealand, Australia, where it also is not increasing, so yes, it is not increasing worldwide, as for Antarctica I’ll leave that one up to you.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

How many cases a day on the average in MN in the month of June? Deaths?

How many cases a day on the average in MN in the month of September? Deaths?

(Some of this is clearly seasonal Leaf.)

Of course it is. That does not make it any less serious. This “season” is going to last a long time.

Deaths are a lagging statistic. If, as seems to be the case, the new cases in Europe are higher than ours per capita, then the death rates will follow.

That is true. The numbers can be mitigated somewhat by marginal improvements in treatments, but baring some sort of break-through, I’m afraid the projection for us does not look good.

As of the latest I have seen, the U.S. death rate per capita is surpassed by UK, France, Italy, Belgium, Spain and a number of non first world countries.

Also Mexico and Brazil have worse numbers than the US. Actually, UK, Italy, and France are slightly worse, but essentially tied with the US. That still leaves Norway, Greece, Finland, Germany, Hungary, Bulgaria, Kuwait, Portugal, Switzerland, Canada, Costa Rica, South Africa, Israel, Romania, Bahamas, Ireland, South Korea, Japan, Uruguay, Kenya, Cyprus, Iceland, Australia, New Zealand, who are all showing substantially better deaths per 100,000 population. However the cumulative deaths per 100,000 this is based on may not be as meaningful in evaluating policies because these numbers are dominated by the early deaths before some very simple treatment strategies were implemented. For example, the fact that deaths per week in the US are now a small fraction of what they were in April, the spread of the virus now is much worse than in April. The difference is marginal improvements in treatment.

If what we want to reduce is transmission rate, the number to watch is not the deaths per 100,000 but the population positivity rate.

 

[Zake]

Glad you had a good laugh, it helps relieve stress…elsewhere can mean, South America. Asia, Japan, Pacific Islands etc. But there are countries within those continents that Covid is not increasing, as there are other countries like New Zealand, Australia, where it also is not increasing, so yes, it is not increasing worldwide, as for Antarctica I’ll leave that one up to you.

So you mean that it would be “worldwide” only if it affected each and every country? I am sure that some tribes in the Amazon valley, or up in the Andes are not affected. Let’s not play games. It is growing dangerously. And there is already a way to slow it down, by using masks, keeping social distance and sanitizing. This is not a “silver bullet”, but it would slow down the spread.

In a sense our “glorious” leader (yes, the very stable genius) is right, it would disappear eventually, even if we did not do anything. Eventually… after how many deaths? But, what the heck! Those who would die are already born, so they don’t matter.

 

[Cathoholic]

How many cases a day on the average in MN in the month of June? Deaths?

How many cases a day on the average in MN in the month of September? Deaths?

 

[Peebo]

Zake

18m

Glad you had a good laugh, it helps relieve stress…elsewhere can mean, South America. Asia, Japan, Pacific Islands etc. But there are countries within those continents that Covid is not increasing, as there are other countries like New Zealand, Australia, where it also is not increasing, so yes, it is not increasing worldwide, as for Antarctica I’ll leave that one up to you.

So you mean that it would be “worldwide” only if it affected each and every country? I am sure that some tribes in the Amazon valley, or up in the Andes are not affected. Let’s not play games. It is growing dangerously. And there is already a way to slow it down, by using masks, keeping social distance and sanitizing. This is not a “silver bullet”, but it would slow down the spread.

In a sense our “glorious” leader (yes, the very stable genius) is right, it would disappear eventually, even if we did not do anything. Eventually… after how many deaths? But, what the heck! Those who would die are already born, so they don’t matter.

So I’m not sure what your problem is, I have said that it is not increasing “worldwide” ie, involving or extending throughout the whole world, universal. So, no it is NOT increasing throughout the world, some countries actually have mandated wearing masks, social distancing, sanitizing, and YES, because of those factors Covid cases have decreased in some countries, is that not what you’re trying to say also.