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FollowChrist34
Guest
Per O’Reilly, grape-picking pay is $17 an hour plus benefits. Isn’t that more than unemployment?
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meltzerboy
New member
So you appear to want to screen immigrants (perhaps legal ones as well) with regard to which political party, if any, they are likely to affiliate with and which issues they are in favor of or opposed to, before allowing them entrance to the U.S. That is an interesting addition to the control-the-vote campaign that Democrats have accused Republicans of exercising.
Mary_Gail_36
New member
It is “Illegal” for non citizens to vote.
And people’s political point of views change often.
I would think it is a poor gamble to say that once an immigrant becomes a US citizen he’ll vote as a Democrat.
My own uncle was a democrat, totally loved all the democrats in all elections. He was a legal resident, and could not vote.
He could have been a republican, libertarian, monarchist, socialist etc, but since he couldn’t vote, it really was irrelevant what he liked
meltzerboy
New member
Good point. We don’t know and, frankly, it’s none of our business which party an immigrant may belong to or which candidate they may vote for. Besides, as you state, citizenship is required to vote.It is “Illegal” for non citizens to vote.
And people’s political point of views change often.
I would think it is a poor gamble to say that once an immigrant becomes a US citizen he’ll vote as a Democrat.
My own uncle was a democrat, totally loved all the democrats in all elections. He was a legal resident, and could not vote.
He could have been a republican, libertarian, monarchist, socialist etc, but since he couldn’t vote, it really was irrelevant what he liked
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Path_Finder
Guest
If one studies what happened in California, the amnesty that was given out in good faith during the Reagan administration changed that state around. Now, they have some of the most liberal Senators and Governors around.It is “Illegal” for non citizens to vote.
And people’s political point of views change often.
I would think it is a poor gamble to say that once an immigrant becomes a US citizen he’ll vote as a Democrat.
My own uncle was a democrat, totally loved all the democrats in all elections. He was a legal resident, and could not vote.
He could have been a republican, libertarian, monarchist, socialist etc, but since he couldn’t vote, it really was irrelevant what he liked
California is where this immigration really hit hard, please search out such figures for oneself if one does not care to believe this.
If we can’t make a judgement one way or another, then, maybe we should not venture in to the unknown then and upset the system. Our votes should not be watered down for Americans already here.
I am sorry if what you mean in saying your own uncle was a Democrat meant he would support abortion on demand and same-sex marriage or maybe that was a different time. Now we have a party that pushes extremist issues.
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Path_Finder
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Yes, it is our business, if the immigrant is*** ILLEGAL***, we don’t need false liberal compassion so we can have liberal voting blocs and abortion rates of over 30 per capita 1000 women as in New York and we don’t need African Americans aborting more children than are born as in New York where the likes of people like Betty Friedan and Bernard Nathanson worked for the legalization of abortion for it to inflict African Americans at a higher rate.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Nathanson
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Path_Finder
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So, if Italy was overswamped by Muslims, we could say, “well, we don’t know if they might change their religion”. This is different than voting but I can see similar analogies.It is “Illegal” for non citizens to vote.
And people’s political point of views change often.
I would think it is a poor gamble to say that once an immigrant becomes a US citizen he’ll vote as a Democrat.
My own uncle was a democrat, totally loved all the democrats in all elections. He was a legal resident, and could not vote.
He could have been a republican, libertarian, monarchist, socialist etc, but since he couldn’t vote, it really was irrelevant what he liked
And that is exactly, what the gripe is with the protesters in Italy, they don’t care to see their country fundamentally changed.
Catholic Catechism says this should be respected as well.
What? Do we just have no laws at all? Shouldn’t we then, make arrangements for people to come from all over the world so as not to show any prejudice against anyone??
After all, that would just be more money, it is a burden on the system already so why not?
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Path_Finder
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Catholic Doctrine says the character of the nation should be respected.
Those who say other; are not following Catholic Catechism.
Those who say other; are not following Catholic Catechism.
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Monkey1976
Guest
Technically true. However, every time it’s proposed that we actually verify that those voting are doing so legally, out come the cries of racism.
In reality, there’s nothing stopping anyone from voting wherever they want as many times as they want.
meltzerboy
New member
And the character of the U.S., our nation, is an assortment of immigrant groups of people who come from all over the world. We are a diverse, multicultural, multi-ethnic, multi-racial, multi-religious, multilingual, multi-political nation. That is what makes the U.S. unique. Italy and other European nations do not have the same character as we do.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I think with most people who think about it politically, it’s the other way around. It’s widely known, or at least believed, that Obama’s total open borders policy is intended to get a permanent Democrat majority, and that he and his party do not care how much harm they do to the nation in order to achieve that narrow political goal.
As an aside, I know a fair number of legal and illegal Mexicans. Mexicans are NOT central Americans. It will take at least two generations, but I truly believe in three they will all be political conservatives. If you talk about specific issues like taxes, government spending, even welfare (and even if they get public benefits) they resent it more than native-born do.
That might be a carried-over resentment of the government corruption in their country of origin, I don’t know.
But in the meantime I expect citizens of recent Mexican origin to vote Dem. They could be like the Irish, who continue to vote Dem in a lot of places because “grandfather did” and don’t realize they’re being played for fools. But I have my doubts.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
This is interesting. They do and they don’t. It varies with people, of course, but it has long been my belief that American-Italians, Germans, Irish, etc of today think more like their immigrant ancestors did than they do like modern Italians, Germans, Irish, etc that still live in the home country. That is very definitely true of the Scots-Irish in my region as well.
Among the things European immigrants were different about was their utter determination to “Americanize”. Sure, if you were German, you ate sausage, drank beer, were proud of your heritage, on and on. But when you gained your citizenship, you signed an oath that you “renounced all allegiance to all foreign powers and potentates, and especially to___________” (they filled in your country of origin) My Irish great-grandfather’s required him to renounce allegiance to “Victoria, Queen of Great Britain and Ireland”. He said it was the easiest oath he ever took.
The Supreme Court, for one thing, decreed that the U.S. could no longer require renunciation of foreign citizenship. It’s a shame too, in my book. If you cut your ties, it made a psychological difference.
My wife is 100% Alsatian. (the German speaking kind) Her great grandfather set up a harness shop in Indiana. He kept a meticulous ledger of his accounts. About the first half of his ledger is in German, then there is a slow, mixed, transition to English. After that transition portion, it’s all in English.
It was different then.
meltzerboy
New member
Perhaps it works both ways: Obama wants the potential votes for his party’s majority in Congress and the Republicans do not want the potential Democratic votes that might hinder their control of Congress and recapture of the Presidency. Neither party can be said to be primarily motivated by the plight of the illegal immigrants or the legal immigrants already in the country. And, in a nutshell, there you have the political establishment at its best (worst).
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stevegravy
Guest
Personal opinion potential voters are a secondary issue. Follow the money, cheap labor that can be exploited in ways native born cannot, that is what is driving the issue the politicians are only holding the door to satisfy their contributors.
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FollowChrist34
Guest
I agree. As long as I can remember, Hispanics have filled nanny, hotel, agriculture, construction, landscaping jobs for the most part in every state I have lived in. Wherever you have a lot of farming you always have great Mexican restaurants here and there. In the middle of nowhere. And little Catholic Churches.
I do worry about a block of Democratic voters. But as I recall Hispanics went for Reagan - isn’t that right? Trump says they favor him in Nevada and I believe him. They are human after all, they fall for him too.
I think a lot of factors are in play. You don’t get 11 million people in a country illegally without a lot of failures on all levels of society. The key is to try and improve the situation. Close the borders. E-verify employees. Deport felons. Then try and figure out what to do with the rest that are here illegally. Fines, path to citizenship, maybe deport those with no gainful employment or legitimate claim to any sort of “refugee” status. I don’t know. Maybe we should just do what we can with them within our budget going forward. If we are lucky this kind of pragmatic reform will happen without violating anybody’s human rights. And we don’t need Trump to do it. This isn’t rocket science.
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Path_Finder
Guest
It sounds like stories on more crimes are coming out of Arizona today, guess what? None of the 3 are Hispanic:
foxnews.com/us/2015/08/19/arizona-sheriff-says-fed-notice-system-for-released-illegals-not-good-enough-to/
foxnews.com/us/2015/08/19/arizona-sheriff-says-fed-notice-system-for-released-illegals-not-good-enough-to/
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mary_bobo
Guest
There is enough blame to go around for both parties. This country the most generous on earth and always there when another country has some tragedy. But there comes a time when the coffers of the country are empty and we can no longer support everyone who wants to come to this country by whatever means possible. The quaint concept of immigration rules has fallen by the wayside and we are flooded with aliens many of whom have no skills to supports themselves and thus end up on the public dole. We can only go on this way so long.
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Before I get lumped into a crowd that is concerned about letting others in, I am a first generation American on one side and my father and grandparents came to this country legally after waiting in line. My grandfather worked hard and supported his own family. He was too proud to take welfare. This, unfortunately, is not the case today. Regardless of what color or nationality the illegals are, we need to know who and where they are and how they plan to contribute to their own welfare. I think this is what people are so upset about. The government, both parties, do not enforce the law.
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Sunbreak
Guest
Trump is just saying what other people are thinking. I am absolutely in favor of sending all the illegals back where they came from. And if their child was born here, then they have a choice: find someone legal here to take care of the child or take them with them back to wherever they came from. Many of our ancestors came here legally and had to have a sponsor, have a criminal and health check before they were allowed to stay. Someone who is trying to come illegally has no right to be here. Period.
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FollowChrist34
Guest
This is interesting - just saw it. The poll is in the first link below.
synapse.news/2015/08/19/trump-immigration-proposal/?utm_source=outbrain&utm_campaign=Politic_V2_trump_artcle_V1_hdl_V1&utm_medium=cpc
And…for dessert:
usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/immigration/churchteachingonimmigrationreform.cfm
blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2015/08/03/majority-of-republicans-backs-a-legal-status-for-immigrants-wsjnbc-poll/
synapse.news/2015/08/19/trump-immigration-proposal/?utm_source=outbrain&utm_campaign=Politic_V2_trump_artcle_V1_hdl_V1&utm_medium=cpc
And…for dessert:
usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/immigration/churchteachingonimmigrationreform.cfm
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gracepoole
Guest
Most likely. Which is what’s most terrifying of all.
Stunning. Children who are US citizens can either go “back where they came from” (they actually came from here) or be raised by people other than their parents. Sure sounds like something that Christ would say.
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