Trump driving migrant debate among GOP field

[FollowChrist34]

Most likely. Which is what’s most terrifying of all.

Stunning. Children who are US citizens can either go “back where they came from” (they actually came from here) or be raised by people other than their parents. Sure sounds like something that Christ would say.

You’ve heard of the new theology of love, right? Why can’t we have a new theology of immigration too? Fair is fair. I mean we have to move with the times here. Trust me, Jesus would understand. We mean well and our hearts are in the right place; we love America. Love wins.
:tiphat:

 

[Path_Finder]

Trump is just saying what other people are thinking. I am absolutely in favor of sending all the illegals back where they came from. And if their child was born here, then they have a choice: find someone legal here to take care of the child or take them with them back to wherever they came from. Many of our ancestors came here legally and had to have a sponsor, have a criminal and health check before they were allowed to stay. Someone who is trying to come illegally has no right to be here. Period.

We are the only ones who have this “birthright law” and now it is being looked into and it may not have been interpreted correctly all these years, the 14th amendment. You are right, they have no right to be here and we should not have to live with the callous legislation that those who benefit from their votes put on other Americans. It is not Christlike.

 

[meltzerboy]

We are the only ones who have this “birthright law” and now it is being looked into and it may not have been interpreted correctly all these years, the 14th amendment. You are right, they have no right to be here and we should not have to live with the callous legislation that those who benefit from their votes put on other Americans. It is not Christlike.

While some of us (mainly conservatives) are looking into the meaning of the 14th Amendment, can we also look into the meaning of the Constitutional right to bear arms?

 

[Path_Finder]

Salute to Donald Trump for caring about the families of those killed by illegals, one sure doesn’t see that from the abortion supporting politicians. No wonder, they want an underclass to enslave their bankrupt morals on us.

 

[gracepoole]

Salute to Donald Trump for caring about the families of those killed by illegals, one sure doesn’t see that from the abortion supporting politicians. No wonder, they want an underclass to enslave their bankrupt morals on us.

And what about the mother who is here illegally from the Democratic Republic of Congo and has a female baby while here? You do know that sending she and her child (a US citizen) back almost guarantees a future of rape for both of them, right? How is it possibly Christlike to do so? Making generalizations about illegal immigrants leads to all sorts of moral gaffes.

 

[Path_Finder]

And what about the mother who is here illegally from the Democratic Republic of Congo and has a female baby while here? You do know that sending she and her child (a US citizen) back almost guarantees a future of rape for both of them, right? How is it possibly Christlike to do so? Making generalizations about illegal immigrants leads to all sorts of moral gaffes.

It does not necessarily lead to moral gaffes. Yes, I feel for this mother from DRC if this is a real case but do some people play the system as well? Somewhere a line needs to be drawn, we can’t take care of everyone and personally, I believe I would say, we should first take care of the poorest rather than some people whose main concern might be to find a better job and not care that much about becoming a citizen. Laws are laws. There are many criminals we can sympathize with. “I stole a car but it was for a good cause.”

 

[Seamus_L]

Heavily fining those who employ illegal aliens he’s the most cost effective, non-confrontational solution to the problem. No need for detention centers, immigration hearings, dragnets, roundups, etc. The professional protester crowd won’t even know where to go to throw there public tantrums.

 

[didymus]

Consistency certainly isn’t Trump’s strong point:

From the Hill, June 2012:

On Fox News this morning, Donald Trump said that even though he’s one of the world’s “very conservative” persons, he’s open to a much softer approach on dealing with some long-term illegal immigrants.

"For people that have been here for years that have been hard-workers, have good jobs, they’re supporting their family – it’s very, very tough to just say ‘By the way, 22 years, you have to leave. Get out.’

… I’m one of the world’s very conservative people, but I have to tell you on a human basis, how do you throw somebody out that’s lived in this country for twenty years."

He also claimed that Mitt Romney has shown both “compassion” and carefulness in dealing with the issue.

On Larry King Live, April 2010:

TRUMP: Well, I can see that. But if you think about it, nobody wants to say it, you have a Mexican-American and then you have a blond guy walking down the street. Mexico doesn’t have a lot of blonds.

KING: So you’re in favor of profiling?

TRUMP: I’m in favor of – if people are coming in illegally, I am favoring you have to have laws. Nobody knows what the law is. People are streaming across the border. Sometimes, it’s drug dealers. What’s. Happening there, the drug dealers are coming in and that’s a big deal. They’re coming in and they’re killing.

KING: You also have American interests hiring them?

TRUMP: You have American interests hiring them, absolutely. And many cases, they’re great workers. The biggest problem is you have great people come in from Mexico works crops and cutting lawns that I’m not sure a lot of Americans are going to take those jobs. That’s the dichotomy. That’s the problem.

You have a lot of great people coming in doing a lot of work. And I’m not so sure that a lot of other people are doing that work so it’s a very tough problem. But I do say this, you have a law or at least you have to establish a law. And I guess we’re sort of a country, and other people aren’t supposed to be coming into a country illegally.

KING: So you would not favor a boycott of any kind?

TRUMP: No, I would not favor a boycott.

Newsmax, November 26 2012 claiming that Romney lost at least in part because the GOP was “mean-spirited” toward Hispanics.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Perhaps it works both ways: Obama wants the potential votes for his party’s majority in Congress and the Republicans do not want the potential Democratic votes that might hinder their control of Congress and recapture of the Presidency. Neither party can be said to be primarily motivated by the plight of the illegal immigrants or the legal immigrants already in the country. And, in a nutshell, there you have the political establishment at its best (worst).

I think there’s a difference though. I do not accept the “both parties are the same” assertion that has become so popular. Democrats at least follow Obama’s “fundamentally change America” ideology, whether they truly believe in it or not. Repubs really don’t aim to “fundamentally change America” other than to roll back some of this administration’s more radical actions.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

If one studies what happened in California, the amnesty that was given out in good faith during the Reagan administration changed that state around. Now, they have some of the most liberal Senators and Governors around.

California is where this immigration really hit hard, please search out such figures for oneself if one does not care to believe this.

If we can’t make a judgement one way or another, then, maybe we should not venture in to the unknown then and upset the system. Our votes should not be watered down for Americans already here.

I am sorry if what you mean in saying your own uncle was a Democrat meant he would support abortion on demand and same-sex marriage or maybe that was a different time. Now we have a party that pushes extremist issues.

No, I said that my uncle liked the democratic candidates. I didn’t mention anything about his abortion views. He was Catholic and practicing. I find your comment uncalled for.

As for abortion supporters:

ALBANY, April 8— To one side, it was an epochal breakthrough for women’s rights. To the other, it felt like the end of civilization. A defining political and cultural event, it stunned nearly everyone, and its tiniest details remain etched in the players’ memories.

Thirty years ago this week, New York State legalized abortion, adopting the country’s most liberal law, three years before the Supreme Court legalized abortion nationwide.

The state’s decision turned on hard-to-predict legislative votes and tactical errors by abortion opponents. The drama, which several participants recalled in interviews this week, was decided by the last-minute change of a single vote.

New York had a Republican governor then, Nelson A. Rockefeller, and Republicans controlled both houses of the Legislature. Of the 207 legislators, just 4 were women.

nytimes.com/2000/04/09/nyregion/70-abortion-law-new-york-said-yes-stunning-the-nation.html

Neither party is flawless.

 

[gracepoole]

It does not necessarily lead to moral gaffes. Yes, I feel for this mother from DRC if this is a real case but do some people play the system as well? Somewhere a line needs to be drawn, we can’t take care of everyone and personally, I believe I would say, we should first take care of the poorest rather than some people whose main concern might be to find a better job and not care that much about becoming a citizen. Laws are laws. There are many criminals we can sympathize with. “I stole a car but it was for a good cause.”

It’s responses like this one that make me think I should stop participating here.

 

[meltzerboy]

Consistency certainly isn’t Trump’s strong point:

From the Hill, June 2012:

On Larry King Live, April 2010:

Newsmax, November 26 2012 claiming that Romney lost at least in part because the GOP was “mean-spirited” toward Hispanics.

This is quite revealing about the turnabout in Trump’s statements on immigration. He seems to capitalize on what he believes most of the public is thinking, and I would wager that if he’s elected President, he’s likely to do yet another about face regarding immigration and other issues as well. For all his charisma and assertiveness, I don’t believe Trump really has many firm core convictions concerning politics. His self-description as “very conservative” is reminiscent of Romney’s “severely conservative” self-labeling. Trump is a businessman at heart and ready to strike a deal whenever necessary to get what he wants at the moment.

 

[Path_Finder]

It’s responses like this one that make me think I should stop participating here.

Why does one not say “Such a statement makes this whole forum look bad”, that is basically the personal statement being offered, it quashes the conversation, makes others look bad. Maybe some person’s arguments are not strong, so criticize the messenger not the message. My, my, oh, dear.

Let it suffice, some must feel a need to make a statement personal. So that speaks for a point of view, good for anyone who rides a high horse.

Remember what Steve Martin said, “Well, excuse me”, false liberal compassion has taken a toll on our country.

That is one good thing about Donald Trump, to heck with political correctness.

Has one added their feelings on such about the Planned Parenthood videos?

Has one said such about stories where illegals kill Americans?

Or is this selective outrage??

Well, excuse me. Perhaps others opinions are revolting to others.

 

[Path_Finder]

No, I said that my uncle liked the democratic candidates. I didn’t mention anything about his abortion views. He was Catholic and practicing. I find your comment uncalled for.

As for abortion supporters:

nytimes.com/2000/04/09/nyregion/70-abortion-law-new-york-said-yes-stunning-the-nation.html

Neither party is flawless.

40 years ago, is that the best that can be brought up??

The Democratic Party stands for abortion, if one doesn’t know that, they must have been living on a desert island.

Why is it not mentioned Governor Christie defunded planned parenthood?

Why is it not mentioned Governor Walker defunded planned parenthood?

Why is it not mentioned Governor Jindal defunded planned parenthood?

Why is it not mentioned Governor Perry defunded planned parenthood?

One party has abortion on demand in their party platform, one President has said God Bless Planned Parenthood and he wasn’t a Republican, how now, we can see the left covering up when Planned Parenthood, a special interest of the DNC if not actually the DNC itself has been caught on these horrendous videos and I think it is for Democrats to owe up to it, they are the ones so heckbent to keep Planned Parenthood afloat, Hillary and Pelosi winning the highest achievement award from Planned Parenthood.

No, it does count whether it was the Democratic Party of yesterday or this one of today, that peddles these outrageous things, same-sex marriage another one, laws where minors have to get parental notification about tattoos but if it is consent to get an abortion, guess who fights it?

Nowadays, abortion and the DNC can not be separated, period. That just serves a detachment from such abhorrent views that are contrary to the Catholic Church’s teachings.

There are extenuating factors, an ethnic blue collar type may belong to a Union, that’s why they vote Democratic, it is a personal dilemma for them, I do not criticize them.

Someone might vote for President Obama because they look at him and say, I want to vote for an African American president, again, this is not my business.

Facts are facts still though, some parties stand for some bad things in my book.

No, this is a dilemma for us all, back in the 1970s, the “it’s only a clump of cells” defense was proferred much more.

Nowadays, we have ultrasounds, and what ever else. It is not easy for anyone. Times have changed.

The First Lady called Partial Birth Abortion a legitimate medical procedure.

We can not stand down when such statements are made, excuse me on that.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

@ Path Finder

Abortion was legalized in New York under the Republicans with the most liberal abortion laws in the country. Prior to Roe V Wade.

In this thread you mentioned that immigration would cause bloc voting for Democrats and then that in turn would cause abortion rates as high in New York city. New York abortion laws started with Republicans.

Trump comes out with a proposal that seems to contradict what he has said even four years ago. Part of his proposal is unconstitutional regardless of what his supporters say.

Trump’s immigration proposal doesn’t fall into line on what the US Bishop’s have said on immigration.

Neither party is truly noble.

AND. I am a prolife Catholic. Trump does not seem to have any prolife history except for some recent statements.

 

[FollowChrist34]

It’s responses like this one that make me think I should stop participating here.

Or just not drink before noon.

 

[RACJ]

My Grandmother was born in Chicago in 1911. Her parents were Italian immigrants. They were not citizens. When she was six years old her parents (my great grandfather had lived here for 17 years and worked as a railroad worker) moved back to Italy

My grandmother had US citizenship. She had a US passport.

She came back to the US in the 1960’s as a US citizen.

SO, there is at least 100 years of precedence that babies born here to foreigners are considered US citizens. In fact my Aunt was born in Italy and because her mother was a US citizen, the US granted my Aunt citizenship. She was naturalized, she became a citizen at her birth. She would have been 75.

“Anchor babies” cannot sponsor their parents to stay in the US until they turn 21.

Were her parents her legally? I bet yes.
YES, anchor babies can make relatives “citizens” when they reach the age of majority. Thus, chain migration. It’s suicidal for any nation, ultimately.

 

[Path_Finder]

@ Path Finder

Abortion was legalized in New York under the Republicans with the most liberal abortion laws in the country. Prior to Roe V Wade.

In this thread you mentioned that immigration would cause bloc voting for Democrats and then that in turn would cause abortion rates as high in New York city. New York abortion laws started with Republicans.

Trump comes out with a proposal that seems to contradict what he has said even four years ago. Part of his proposal is unconstitutional regardless of what his supporters say.

Trump’s immigration proposal doesn’t fall into line on what the US Bishop’s have said on immigration.

Neither party is truly noble.

AND. I am a prolife Catholic. Trump does not seem to have any prolife history except for some recent statements.

Well, in New York, there is such a thing known as the Rockefeller Republicans, even in California, Reagan signed a pro-abortion bill that he came to regret.

But nowadays, and this is 45 years later, Planned Parenthood, America’s biggest abortion is funded year after year after year after year over a half billion dollars a year, they are a special interest group and a special interest group of the Democrats, assistants in the Democratic party are former Planned Parenthood officials.

The head of Planned Parenthood is Cecil Richards, daughter of “Ma” Ann Richards, former Democratic governor of Texas in the 1990s.

Your argument also ignores, Senators like Ted Kennedy fought the nomination of Robert Borke for the Supreme Court during Reagan’s administration, Ted Kennedy said things like we will go back to the days of back alley abortion, so to be talking about what happened in the '70s, the debate was a fetus was a blob of cells.

Act after act, has been legislated, across the whole South, Texas, Arizona, Dakotas, and so on, that are pro-life measures.

No, the apple cart of voting should not be upset to bring in people who can not speak English, are voting for entitlements in many cases that would bring more votes to the extremist agenda of the Left. That is so.

Countries like Canada and Australia have very strict laws on immigration, last I looked, we allow 1 million new citizens a year. Perhaps one should be criticizing these other countries.

I don’t want the whole country to be artificially swept left and be like New York and California.

 

[meltzerboy]

@ Path Finder

Abortion was legalized in New York under the Republicans with the most liberal abortion laws in the country. Prior to Roe V Wade.

In this thread you mentioned that immigration would cause bloc voting for Democrats and then that in turn would cause abortion rates as high in New York city. New York abortion laws started with Republicans.

Trump comes out with a proposal that seems to contradict what he has said even four years ago. Part of his proposal is unconstitutional regardless of what his supporters say.

Trump’s immigration proposal doesn’t fall into line on what the US Bishop’s have said on immigration.

Neither party is truly noble.

AND. I am a prolife Catholic. Trump does not seem to have any prolife history except for some recent statements.

New York Republicans are closer to Democrats than in most other areas of the country. Nelson Rockefeller and Jacob Javits were both liberal Republicans; so are former Mayor Rudy Giuliani and former Sen. Al D’Amato, at least on the social issues. Further, the Democrats of New York State are more liberal than in most other parts of the country, and New York City politics is a law unto itself.

 

[RACJ]

You really didn’t answer my question.

The Church believes in law and order! Just let someone try to come into Vatican City and demand benefits for themselves and their children, and exclaim that the residents of Vatican City have to pay for everything, including education, medical care, and yes, incarceration! And the bureaucracies to administer them! That’ll work…