Trump Thread

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Lily_Bernans said:
This is the Trump thread. We are just discussing Trump here.
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Yes but as an admitted Democrat in which there is no putting the genie back in the bottle you built a difficult position for yourself to defend. Most of us are still waiting to hear this professor.

How does a Democrat propose all this is qualified from a theocratic view? You simply can’t have it both ways as you see. In plain english its hypocrisy to impose a CC-theocratic view on others YOU reject and on this thread and not apply it to yourself but to others on a whim. 😊
 
Lily_Bernans said:
usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/torture/upload/torture-is-an-intrinsic-evil-study-guide.pdf

If you scroll down to III, waterboarding is defined a “torture” by the USCCB.
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A self-styled “One Session Workshop” conducted by an unnamed person, sponsored by the USCCB determines Catholic teaching?

That’s as inaccurate as inaccurate gets. This is not the USCCB, or a USCCB spokesperson, let alone the USCCB as a body. And even if these unidentified participants were bishops (which they apparently are not) they can’t make determinations binding on the conscience of Catholics except under very limited circumstances, none of which apply in this citation. Might as well cite the opinion of the guy who orders the stationery and ink cartridges at the USCCB.

You say you are a Catholic professor of theology, and I don’t doubt your word on that. But as such, you should know this is not even remotely authoritative.
 
No such luck getting Bishop Sheen, he is above all that. When he was with us he certainly taught the truth and facts of the matter - all that matters before God that is. He also had an extra large amount of knowledge to pass to us regarding Communism - there was nothing left undescribed clearly. His teaching every week on TV was a must watch for the family.

“The family that prays together, stays together!”
 
slMike said:
It will never happen in the current American moral climate.

Mike
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No in the land of the shadow its the least of two evils, and the Democrats lost. But we have the moral equivalence now of the Reps. And as far as war mongering I prefer Trumps negotiation with Israel and Iran and Cuba and Russia to the alternative of defacto war mongering. But thats me, I don’t attempt to beat people with catholic teaching who disagree. 😉
 
Ridgerunner said:
A self-styled “One Session Workshop” conducted by an unnamed person, sponsored by the USCCB determines Catholic teaching?

That’s as inaccurate as inaccurate gets. This is not the USCCB, or a USCCB spokesperson, let alone the USCCB as a body. And even if these unidentified participants were bishops (which they apparently are not) they can’t make determinations binding on the conscience of Catholics except under very limited circumstances, none of which apply in this citation. Might as well cite the opinion of the guy who orders the stationery and ink cartridges at the USCCB.

You say you are a Catholic professor of theology, and I don’t doubt your word on that. But as such, you should know this is not even remotely authoritative.
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Okay, you can’t justify Trump’s advocacy of waterboarding with Catholic teaching. I accept that.

You have a right to support any political candidate you choose. I don’t argue that. However, when people who support Trump start attacking Clinton, you know the Clinton supporters are going to come after you and ask why you are applying a double standard.

Catholic moral teaching does not endorse either torture or waterboarding, which they condemn as a form of torture.

Both Obama and Clinton do not believe in waterboarding or other forms of torture that wound the dignity of the human person. Trump does.

So let’s not have the pot, Trump, call the kettle, Clinton, anything at all. At least here. Let’s apply the same criteria to both of them.

Clinton is pro-choice, true. Clinton is a one-time married, never divorced person.

Trump supports torture and violence. Sometimes he is pro-choice, sometimes not. Trump is a three-times married, two times divorced person, who has advocated for adultery.
 
Catholic moral teaching does not endorse either torture or waterboarding, which they condemn as a form of torture.
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However this is non factual and assumption never proven on this thread. Further NOTHING tops the “priority of intrinsic evil/abortion” which is CC teaching and on the USCCB sight. You have a double standard and hypocrisy again. Of the two evils the abortion IS defacto intrinsic evil and cooperated with opposed to assumption and speculation.
 
GaryTaylor said:
However this is non factual and assumption never proven on this thread. Further NOTHING tops the “priority of intrinsic evil/abortion” which is CC teaching and on the USCCB sight. You have a double standard and hypocrisy again. Of the two evils the abortion IS defacto intrinsic evil and cooperated with opposed to assumption and speculation.
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I really don’t know what you’re talking about, but what I linked to is linked on the USCCB site:

usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/torture/

I don’t think the bishops are going to link to something they don’t believe in, do you?

Trump’s advocacy or torture cannot be justified according to Catholic moral teaching. It is, in fact, condemned.
 
I do believe that an attacking will begin soon of Hilary Clinton’s infamous political/criminal history. Clinton supporters will have to put their dark Hilary glasses on and ignore the bright lights on her activities. Trump has a past that is just that - past. Hilary has been trying to squirm past the many, many areas of black activities that still roll on. She hasn’t cleaned up her act, it is finally catching up with her. (she is an expert - but all criminals think they can beat the law).
 
slMike said:
Pro-choice of what options?
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All pregnant woman can make the choice to have a baby or to abort it.

NO woman is FORCED by the government in ANY WAY to have an abortion, with very rare exceptions, and then they are NEVER forced by the government.

ALL WOMEN are welcome to carry their children to term.
 
If one googles “Donald Trump torture” a number of articles will pop up quoting mr trump saying " Torture works". And that he would go “beyond water boarding”. The date on these articles is February 17, 2016.

He later, on a later date, said he would stay within the parameters of the law, but that the law should be widened to allow water boarding and beyond.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
**All pregnant woman can make the choice to have a baby or to abort it. **
NO woman is FORCED by the government in ANY WAY to have an abortion, with very rare exceptions, and then they are NEVER forced by the government.

ALL WOMEN are welcome to carry their children to term.
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God says otherwise, “Professor” : Thou shalt not kill.

Mike
 
Lily_Bernans said:
I really don’t know what you’re talking about, .
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Sure you know what I’m talking about your democratic double standard abortion and your theocracy double standard, thus your hypocrisy professor, Its very clear on this thread. LOL

I realize its an incredible issue you self created but thats your doing. 🤷 Should we act like it never happened?

Remember Lilly this isn’t a theocracy. So its a theocracy for others when YOU deem it is?

We will be on this until you amend your position and hypocrisy.
 
GaryTaylor said:
However this is non factual and assumption never proven on this thread. Further NOTHING tops the “priority of intrinsic evil/abortion” which is CC teaching and on the USCCB sight. You have a double standard and hypocrisy again. Of the two evils the abortion IS defacto intrinsic evil and cooperated with opposed to assumption and speculation.
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Torture is intrinsically evil. End of story.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Sure you know what I’m talking about your democratic double standard abortion and your theocracy double standard, thus your hypocrisy professor, Its very clear on this thread. LOL

I realize its an incredible issue you self created but thats your doing. 🤷 Should we act like it never happened?

Remember Lilly this isn’t a theocracy. So its a theocracy for others when YOU deem it is?

We will be on this until you amend your position and hypocrisy.
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I literally can’t even follow what you’re saying. That’s how disjointed your argument is.
 
GaryTaylor said:
However this is non factual and assumption never proven on this thread. Further NOTHING tops the “priority of intrinsic evil/abortion” which is CC teaching and on the USCCB sight. You have a double standard and hypocrisy again. Of the two evils the abortion IS defacto intrinsic evil and cooperated with opposed to assumption and speculation.
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I agree, nothing tops the “priority of intrinsic evil/abortion”. But…I can’t argue that Trump is against abortion. He praises Planned Parenthood and says they do “wonderful things”. Seems to be walking a thin line. And yes, if I had to choose a candidate like him vs Clinton, I would say he seems more “pro-life”.

But, you can’t justify a vote for him that way. We can vote for the “best of two evils” if we have to. But, we still have good people in this race…that aren’t completely against our Catholic morals. ie. Cruz. So, I can’t justify a vote for Trump by saying “He is better than Clinton on abortion”. Because Cruz is better than Trump on that.
 
slMike said:
God says otherwise, “Professor” : Thou shalt not kill.

Mike
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Amen, would I be wrong at this point to insist on verification of these Catholic “professor” credentials Its very hard to qualify that at this point.

Just saying. Anyway I agree with Mary…
He later, on a later date, said he would stay within the parameters of the law, but that the law should be widened to allow water boarding and beyond.
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He said he would follow the generals in fact. But again this is a conversation never really had only accusations and a indictment sheet proposed. Not very charitable of a conversation or scholarly I would venture to suggest, just saying. 😉
 
Lily_Bernans said:
Thank you for answering. Queenofheartscv does not consider it extreme, so I was wondering what she would consider extreme?

I can’t think of too much else that would be worse other than crucifixion, and I mean no disrespect to Christ in saying that. He suffered the ultimate suffering.

But back to Trump.

Queenofheartscv, what would you consider extreme?
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I don’t consider waterbboarding extreme for terrorist murderers. If the punishment fits the crime, neither do I think the death penalty is extreme.

And to answer another poster, if I have to resort to physical measures in order to rescue my son, I don’t know how far I will go and indeed I will have to answer to God.
 
slMike said:
God says otherwise, “Professor” : Thou shalt not kill.

Mike
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That’s not my position. I’m against abortion, but I’m also against torture. I just pointed out that no woman is forced by the government to have an abortion just because it’s legal. This isn’t China.

Donald Trump is not against torture . He is FOR torture, including waterboarding. Trump is also all for divorce, and God said, “Thou shalt not commit adultery.” The USCCB has declared torture and waterboarding against Catholic moral teaching, and this is the Trump thread.
 
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