Tucker: Are coronavirus lockdowns working?

[KMC]

What is the difference in your mind between “misinformation” and “a different interpretation of information”? For example, a couple of doctors were on youtube citing statistics and stating that states should open up there economies. Are the doctors putting forth “misinformation” or “a different interpretation of information”?

 

[Cathoholic]

ThinkingSapien . . .

I think there is a strong anti-science . . .

I agree. Like the people who think if they make everyone else remain indoors a little longer, THEN go outside the virus will be gone!

They tend to be the same people who claim it’s “scientific” that a guy can become a gal one day, and waah laah, a guy the next!

They are posers.

 

[StudentMI]

They are posers.

I don’t know if I’d use that term. Posers I generally think of in a heavy metal or punk scene, but that may just be my history speaking.

 

[Cathoholic]

1Lord1Faith . . .

Nobody knows if lockdowns are working because there isn’t nearly enough testing being done. Two months into this thing and there is still nothing even approaching adequate testing.

What do you think the goals of the lockdown were 1Lord1Faith?

And when people came on here on CAF and said those two “goals” were not the whole story,
they were jeered,
made fun of,
and told they were ascribing to conspiracy theories.

Yet those two goals were met!

What do you think those two goals were?

And WHY (with evidence) do you think extending hibernation another week, month, year, or decade will make the virus dissappear?.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

We have considerable information form throughout the world about the rate of transmission with development of symptoms without mitigation vs the rate under various mitigation scenarios. That information shows that “lock-downs” has flattened the curve.

That’s one narrative. And I would say that it’s common sense to believe that physical separation will slow down an infectious disease. But lockdowns on this level may not be necessary. Granted there are some measures that should be in place like a ban on mass gatherings. But stay at home orders aka lockdowns have no proof of effectiveness.

 

[gam197]

I would disagree. Education has always evolved based on the key knowledge needed by the population. It seems like this can be incorporated into English and Science courses pretty easily.

Nah. They have enough problems already teaching English and science.

 

[StudentMI]

That’s one narrative.

Apologies if this seems personal, it’s not intended that way, but there are no narratives. There is only the truth. That’s what we must strive towards.

 

[dvdjs]

For example, a couple of doctors were on youtube citing statistics and stating that states should open up there economies. Are the doctors putting forth “misinformation” or “a different interpretation of information”?

There are a various kinds of misinformation ranging from false “facts” to fact and hypothesis flooding to obscure, to mistaken ideas however honest.

In this case, it is primarily last kind, although it seems that there are also some false facts through it to boot. The analysis of the data is unsound at basic level of statistics. The policy inference drawn from the mis-analysis diverge from one drawn from sound analysis.

 

[dvdjs]

That’s one narrative

And “the world is not flat” is also one narrative.
Both of these narratives are compatible with the facts that we know.

I acknowledge that the lockdowns were not necessary to flatten the curve. Other nation, used containment very effectively. But we did not. It might have been possible, especially with massive testing, to use just the hygiene and distancing measures that some states have moved to in their next phase of pandemic measures. But there is n serious question that the measure takes were effective.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

What do you think the goals of the lockdown were 1Lord1Faith?

The lockdowns were done by the states so I don’t think there is any motive other than keeping people safe, at least for my state, Ohio, which was the first to close all its schools. Maryland quickly followed. And other states followed days after that. Maybe the other governors were just waiting for one of them to act.

But now that we have more data about the virus I think that people want to open things back up again. Ohio is doing just that on May 1.

Trump’s federal guidelines are just that…guidelines. They have no teeth, nor should the guidelines have any teeth. It’s up to the states to do what they think is best.

 

[niceatheist]

ThinkingSapien . . .

I think there is a strong anti-science . . .

There’s a word for misrepresenting what other people are saying. It’s not a nice word.

It strikes me that you are unwilling or unable to actually critique what epidemiologists and immunologists are saying, so you create these strawmen of their statements and instructions.

 

[Cathoholic]

1Lord1Faith . . .

The lockdowns were done by the states so I don’t think there is any motive other than keeping people safe . . .

America was told this lockdown recomendation is to . . .

1 Flatten the curve.
And
2 Not overwhelm the US medical system.

.

It’s up to the states to do what they think is best.

I think that is excellent analysis.

I would even take it further and say localities (subsidiarity).

But the goal must remain well-defined, reachable, and backed-up with evidence.

Not some nebulous sort of emotional-sounding goal that can be interpreted however someone wants to.

From the actions I see, it looks like we will reach
“safety point” . . .
. . . Oh, around November 3rd, 2020 or thereabouts.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

There is only the truth. That’s what we must strive towards.

People are not interested in waiting for officials to compile the “truth” about the coronavirus. That’s going to take years. People have to go on with their lives. People are going to use the info they have to make the best decision for them. They aren’t necessarily interested in taking a politician’s word about what what they should and shouldn’t do.

 

[StudentMI]

I would even take it further and say localities (subsidiarity).

I can get behind that. Granted if a lower order can’t take care of itself the higher order has to step in. But I’d say it’s worth a try.

 

[StudentMI]

People are not interested in waiting for officials to compile the “truth” about the coronavirus. That’s going to take years. People have to go on with their lives. People are going to use the info they have to make the best decision for them. They aren’t necessarily interested in taking a politician’s word for it.

That’s a good point. Thanks for sharing.

 

[dvdjs]

People are going to use the info they have to make the best decision for them.

It would be great if everyone would also to consider what is best for our neighbors, too.
Since that is not a given, we have laws. And we make them through elected officials.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

People are considering their neighbors. They’ve been going broke considering their neighbor. They’ve gone along with these lockdowns for 6 weeks. Now that we have more of a handle on the virus, people want to get back to work. The curve has been flattened , and people need to eat and pay their mortgage.

It’s perfectly legitimate to question the methods that have been used by governments. All of those orders may not have been necessary. Some of which have been very costly.

 

[Cathoholic]

dvdjs . . .

It would be great if everyone would also to consider what is best for our neighbors, too.

Two distinct choices here.

1. Face a viral infection.
2. Tank the economy and THEN face a viral infection.

That is exactly WHY the go-back-to-work people are saying what they say. Not just for the good of themselves . . .
(Those are the people willing to tank the economy so they don’t get a viral infection [they think].
Or can hurt the country bad enough to win an otherwise unwinnable election for them.) . .

. . . But for the good of their neighbors.

Yes there will be deaths either way.
More deaths with Virus AND tanking the economy though.

I am very thankful for leaders like President Trump, Governors DeSantis and Abbott, and others in times like this.

DeSantis fires back at coronavirus critics, says Florida didn’t have issues other states did

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis boasted that the numbers of coronavirus cases in his state are far below what was expected, as some states with more restrictive shutdown orders have been hit harder.

www.foxnews.com

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis boasted on Tuesday that the numbers of coronavirus cases in his state are far below what was expected, as some states with more restrictive shutdown orders have been hit harder.

Speaking to reporters alongside President Trump at the White House, DeSantis pushed back against criticism that he waited too long to shut down his state.

FLORIDA HAS THOUSANDS OF EMPTY HOSPITAL BEDS, DESANTIS SAYS

"What have the results been? You look at some of the most draconian orders that have been issued in some of these states and compare Florida in terms of our hospitalizations per 100,000, in terms of our fatalities per 100,000,” DeSantis said. “I mean you go from D.C., Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, Illinois, you name it. Florida has done better.”

DeSantis made clear that he was not disparaging those states, but said that projections in the media were that Florida would be hit as hard as New York or Italy, which did not turn out to be the case.

DeSantis fires back at coronavirus critics, says Florida didn’t have issues other states did

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis boasted that the numbers of coronavirus cases in his state are far below what was expected, as some states with more restrictive shutdown orders have been hit harder.

www.foxnews.com

.

Gov. Greg Abbott on lifting lockdown orders in Texas: We need to get back to business​

Apr. 28, 2020 - 2:35 - Texas Gov. Greg Abbott joins Sean Hannity on ‘Hannity.’

Gov. Greg Abbott on lifting lockdown orders in Texas: We need to get back to business | On Air Videos | Fox News

Gov. Greg Abbott on lifting lockdown orders in Texas: We need to get back to business | Fox News Video

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott joins Sean Hannity on 'Hannity.'

video.foxnews.com

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Like the people who think if they make everyone else remain indoors a little longer, THEN go outside the virus will be gone!

I haven’t heard anyone express that belief. I have heard speculation that covid will continue to circulate like some of the other human corona viruses. That we will have some cultural changes as a part of the behavioural adaptations to this motivated by a desire to lower the opportunity for sickness and death.

 

[Cathoholic]

ThinkingSapien . . .

I think there is a strong anti-science . . .

Cathoholic . . .

I agree. Like the people who think if they make everyone else remain indoors a little longer, THEN go outside the virus will be gone!

They tend to be the same people who claim it’s “scientific” that
a guy can become
a gal one day,
and waah laah, a guy the next!

They are posers.

ThinkingSapien . . .

I haven’t heard anyone express that belief.

I’ve heard lots. But they don’t put it that way.