There is a map somewhere, in the thread. It shows the Russian jet flying up over Syria and then turning back to Syria but overlapping Turkish airspace, for 15 seconds. The jet was shot down by Turkey, a kilometre away from Turkey, whilst in Syria - all for 15 secs airspace violation, when Russia was killing off their ‘joint’ foe.
Agree. Probably.for.Turkey.ISiS is.seen.As.something.that they can.get rid.of.quickly if.there.is ever a need too. Russia.on the other is a.big problem.and.added to.their long history,.it is.more.important to.keep.them.out.
Military aircraft’s are not allowed anywhere in the world on another country’s airspace without previous authorization. I can assure you that if any military aircraft fliesover US airspace for two seconds, the US will.shoot it without even warning. Turkey did warn Russia that they were entering their space without authorization and Russia ignored it. Why did Russia didn’t ask for the required permission as every existing country in the world does? Again this is completely unrelated to ISIS. Under Turkey’s eyes it is an eternal enemy who is an actual threat for them who is trying to impose their imperialism on them. Nothing to do with iSIs
Says who - that information only came out late this afternoon, by the MSM. It must have been all they could ‘think-tank’ up in at such short notice, to back Turkey and keep their respective ‘readers’ anti-Russian, as per usual.
How they identify whose, who is totally beyond me i.e. Turkish rebels, from moderate rebels from ISIS - but possibly they have a way…This is not a recent development dreamed up by any MSM as you claim.Says who - that information only came out late this afternoon, by the MSM. It must have been all they could ‘think-tank’ up in at such short notice, to back Turkey and keep their respective ‘readers’ anti-Russian, as per usual.
There was no mention of it, before today.
The flight plan showed the jet come through the centre of Syria and was flying back into Syria, maybe they were looking at what was going on, to see how much ground was being won over - who knows.
*if Russia’s number one objective in the Syrian conflict is now to crush ISIS - which of course, it isn’t *
Again says who - the MSM.
Russia asked them all, at the UN, in September, to join them in a coalition to hit ISIS. You think if they’d agreed then, that Russia would be off hitting anyone but ISIS whilst the other countries were hitting ISIS - I’m sure that would have worked out really well, for all concerned.
Why did Russia inadvertently fly over their airspace? Did Turkey know it may have been likely that they could have done, most probably, in error, because Turkey knew Russia was fighting a ‘common’ enemy right on Turkey’s doorstep? If Turkey was really worried about ISIS they would welcome Russia with open arms, to help, even if it meant a 15 second violation of their airspace.
Funny that, I wasn’t aware ethnic Turkish rebels over the border from Turkey in Syria were the “common enemy” of Erdogan and Putin
Because no.country in the world “inadvertently” flies military aircraft without permission. Little.less Russia and even less.after being warned. Russia knew what they were doing. They probably did not want to ask permission because they are Russia and they feel.they can do whatever they want.and step over the entire world. Many countries do turn.a.blind.eye to violations of.commercial or private aircraft’s but no country turns a blind eye to military aircraft because unauthorized military aircrafts usually do this with belief intentions.Why did Russia inadvertently fly over their airspace? Did Turkey know it may have been likely that they could have done, most probably, in error, because Turkey knew Russia was fighting a ‘common’ enemy right on Turkey’s doorstep? If Turkey was really worried about ISIS they would welcome Russia with open arms, to help, even if it meant a 15 second violation of their airspace.
Let’s hope Assad doesn’t implement the same rules, as he would be perfectly legal to do so and blow up every Western plane that flies over Syria aside from the French - and I wonder would anyone complain about that, or would the goalposts move.
Many countries turn a blind eye to airspace violations, but when the plane in question is fighting a ‘common’, (or maybe not so common) enemy- and they shoot them down - it’s totally and utterly, unbelievable. Russia flew jets over Irish airspace a year or so ago, we didn’t care, the UK had to give off to Ireland for not ‘giving off’ to Russia.
There’s a time and place to implement a bit of ‘common sense’ and ‘cop-on’ in any situation, with rules in place - especially during a terrorist war.
How do you know it was inadvertent and “most probably, in error”? In a earlier post I linked to an article that said Russia was warned on October 5 about violating Turkish airspace. Russia has had almost 3 weeks to figure out where the border between Syria and Turkey is (like they did not already know). You would think that if you had been threatened that something like this could happen you would make sure to stay out of Turkish airspace.
Why do you presume that it was inadvertent?
If the Turks can’t see the difference between a jet, fighting a mutual war against terrorism, that flies slightly over their border, for 15 secs, and then assume that the Russians were doing it ‘on purpose’ - I assume to annoy the Turks, then so be it.
Such heroes.Exactly, needless to say, we didn’t shoot them out of the sky.Why do you presume that it was inadvertent?
Russian fighters have GPS. They were warned as they approached.
Just like their bombers do when they invaded Irish airspace last March.
.
irishexaminer.com/ireland/passenger-planes-dodged-russian-bombers-315623.html
Russians have done that for decades, it is how they see what the response is going to be.
Well, either that, or they were really desperate to get some good RTÉ reception
It’s certainly not a friendly gesture. But then neither is refusing to leave a rival’s airspace. What I wonder is when incidents like this happen, how much of the decision-making and risk-taking belongs to the pilots and how much to higher up the authority chain?Exactly, needless to say, we didn’t shoot them out of the sky.
There were some good cartoons made, regarding the incident.
newstalk.com/This-cartoon-offers-a-very-Irish-response-to-Russian-bombers-in-Irish-airspace
But IF there were international terrorists say fighting, in England. Russia was helping out and flew over Irish airspace, at some point, to return back to England to fight - then Ireland are going to shoot down the Russian jet for doing so?
I mean, it’s just common decency, if nothing else. What Turkey did was insane at best, and unconscionable at worst.
Has anyone looked at the scale on this map and the odd protrusion of the border of Turkey into Syria?
17 seconds worth off decision making.
It is apparent that Russia, at a time when it is supposed to be cooperating with the West against the common global threat posed by ISIL, is in fact testing the resolve of NATO from every angle through repeated incursions into the sovereign waters and airspace of member states.
I’d say Putin will box clever with this, although he must be absolutely fuming.Has anyone looked at the scale on this map and the odd protrusion of the border of Turkey into Syria?
The distance across can’t be more that ~two miles, so I’m inclined to agree with PepiPop that the Russian plane couldn’t have taken more about 15 seconds to cross it.
However, here’s my 2 cents:
when a warning is given, isn’t the warning to leave the air space?
In order to leave would it have taken longer to turn around or to just exist the other side of the protrusion?
Please look at the map …
in my opinion the Russians can argue that their pilot did heed the warning and was leaving via the other side of the protrusion …
same or even less time to leave imho.
If Putin explodes over this …
just hope we stay out of it.
rex