Turkey 'downs Russian warplane on Syria border' - BBC

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However, it still does not get around the fact that Putin asked them all to join him, and if they do/did, how can/could he be hitting different targets to everyone else. 🤷

Why do Turkey think the Russian pilots did what they did, for badness - or was it simply ‘A who do they think they are’ reaction, just shoot them down ‘for badness’.

What has Turkey gained from this (aside from their own reasons), they’ve not done themselves any favours by showing their hand. They’ve also been outed as helping ISIS by the USA treasury, and by a speaker at the UK parliament?
My take pepipop is that the so-called Syrian Rebels were organized and funded by Washington. Then, they started calling them The Free Syrian Army. So, the whole thing looks like there is really a civil war going on in Syria not a proxy war managed and funded by Washington. The Syrians were unhappy at one point with the government on economic conditions caused by a big drout and Assad did ask for assistance from the economic community. Instead, what he got was Washington, Israel and the UK to incite the unhappy people to be anti-government. It is an ancient military tactic, infiltrate like a cancer cell and start infecting and growing. This is the reason the Iranians, who are wise, are protecting themselves from infiltration and are taking it very seriously. They come in and dismantle a country from within. Now, who benefits with Assad and Syria destroyed? Who provided the chemical weapons that were used in Damascus?

That said, back in 2003 I came to know that Washington was very interested in obtaining all connections possible with Turks as they wanted access to the Turkish borders. I myself was approached, as I have Turkish friends from my university days. A lot of money was being offered - “A lot of money” - I, of course, would not even consider asking a friend to do something that in the end would greatly hurt his country and would have nothing of it. Now, over ten years later, they gained not only access but control. People sell themselves and their countries for money and money is one of the weapons used which does more damage than a fighter jet. It was money that made Syria vulnerable, a lot of those so-called FSA people were and still are in it for the money. There is an FSA video on Youtube in where the FSA general says that what the plan of USA, Israel and UK is to destroy Syria not simply to replace Assad. This is the reason the so-called civil war was prolonged and prolonged as more and more of Syria was being destroyed while others including the Israelis celebrate the destruction. When the first bombs went off in Syria the Israelis went under ground to the anti-bomb places they have - videos available on Youtube.

Washington created the FSA which became ISIS. Washington has not wanted to destroy ISIS, but, simply regain control of its ‘boys’. What made the FSA guys, unhappy, and turn into ISIS was exactly the lack of support from Washington that they were getting. The support was lacking because Washington did not want them to win too quickly, but, meanwhile the Official Syrian Army was hammering them. They were not happy and the rebels - rebelled. When Washington could not regain control, they blew up about 30-40 leaders (you can look up the exact number) but, still they could not ‘supposedly’ control them and the story goes on.

What you see in action in the Belgium/French border is a cell. What the French need to do is find the leader all the way to the top and the Russian may very well shared this information with the French.

Back to Turkey. last year, right about this time, an American was decapitated by ISIS (talk about treason). A week or so later after the decapitation, the family published a letter the agent had sent to them while in captivity. When I read the letter I tried to decipher it. The person was a smart young man, and he was under the threat of losing his life and could not clearly communicate but I was certain he would try to communicate within the writings. He succeeded and succeeded to by pass the message through the ‘terrorists.’ It is unfortunate the family published the letter after the death of the young man, because, at least I deciphered the letter. Find and read the letter if you are interested, you will note that the young man is saying that he is being kept in Turkey and they are ‘taken down’ to (Syria or Iraq) for the executions. I shared this information with some friends and they agreed.

So, Turkey’s hands are very dirty when it comes to ISIS but of course, Turkey is being played by Washington and is a small player. I think in the future we will learn that the ISIS (that is if they are not all quickly killed before they can talk) people who were keeping the people they planned to decapitate were keeping them in Turkey. Turkey has been working very closing with Washington and ISIS.

I hope Russia and France keeps hitting the ISIS really hard and Assad remains in power and Israel can well… do whatever it wants.

I hope HIlary does not win as she is a puppet of certain interests groups in Washington who are behind all this and an expansionist plan for Israel. She is their puppet and they made her ‘political’ career to make her looks as though she qualifies to be president (Senator of New York/ Secretary of State). Her job is to destroy Iran. That is going to be a big problem for the world as Russia and China will not longer be playing around.

Peace
 
Probably the best thing Russia can do right now is to hand some good anti aircraft weapons over to the Kurds.
 
As stories have varied depending on who is telling it, whatever happened should be resolved between the Turks and the Russians. Hopefully, the Americans will stay out of this dispute.
 
“Rudskoy said the Russian warplane did not violate Turkish airspace. Additionally, according to the Hmeymim airfield radar, it was the Turkish fighter jet that actually entered Syrian airspace as it attacked the Russian bomber.”
rt.com/news/323329-russia-suspend-military-turkey/

The US gains a couple of points, after being put in the sidelines of Syria by the Russians and the French, as the jet fighters were F16 (American made) which downed the Russian jets. The USA had live information on what was going on as the lines are open to the international community. This is the USA attempt to be back as a player in Syria… it keeps trying.

I wonder why the cell in Belgium was activated. The only timing that occurs to me is Pollard’s release and an attempt to create a distraction, but, I don’t know that would be a good enough reason. There is something else going on…why activate the cell now…
 
The Daily Caller is running a story about how often Turkey violated Greece’s airspace last year.
 
"Security Council
China on Friday backed a Security Council resolution that condemned Islamic State as “a global and unprecedented threat to international peace and security” and called for efforts to “eradicate” its safe havens in Iraq and Syria.
But while the country might provide some logistical support, it wouldn’t commit forces or back a proposal that undermined Assad’s government, said Raffaello Pantucci, director of international security studies at the London-based Royal United Services Institute. “I don’t really see this being much of an actual game-changer,” he said.

…
Military Intervention
China doesn’t want to follow the U.S. down the path of military intervention in the Middle East, said Li Guofu, director of the Center for Middle East Studies at the China Institute of International Studies. It has chosen to emphasize greater global cooperation to fight terrorism.
“It’s quite clear to Beijing that the U.S. approach to Syria and the Middle East at large is not working," Li said. “You see this phenomenon, ‘the harder the strike, the greater terrorism.’”
Xi will probably chart a middle course, said Clarke from ANU, insisting any international intervention gets UN approval and solely targets Islamic State."

bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-22/china-pulled-further-into-syria-crisis-as-terrorism-threat-grows

I see the killing of the Chinese as an attempt to draw China in before her time. China knows the board. I hope it plays it right. Russia and China in my estimation are the last hope of the world as we know it and if taunted - it’s not going to be pretty.
 
The Daily Caller is running a story about how often Turkey violated Greece’s airspace last year.
Exactly. Big hypocrites.

And Turkish fighter jets ROUTINELY violate Republic of Cyprus airspace in provocative triumphalism.
 
Turkey has been a big reason why ISIS remains in play in Syria. Turkey itself has its own Islamist tendencies, and the bigger threat to the Sunni world is not ISIS, but Iran.

Elsewhere, Russia and Iran are making nuclear deals. Even if America has been sidelined from the region, Turkey has no where else to go. Russia aiding Iran poses an intolerable risk for them.
Apparently, they are not going to make it easy for Russia in that theatre of war.
 
My take pepipop is that the so-called Syrian Rebels were organized and funded by Washington. Then, they started calling them The Free Syrian Army. So, the whole thing looks like there is really a civil war going on in Syria not a proxy war managed and funded by Washington. The Syrians were unhappy at one point with the government on economic conditions caused by a big drout and Assad did ask for assistance from the economic community. Instead, what he got was Washington, Israel and the UK to incite the unhappy people to be anti-government. It is an ancient military tactic, infiltrate like a cancer cell and start infecting and growing. This is the reason the Iranians, who are wise, are protecting themselves from infiltration and are taking it very seriously. They come in and dismantle a country from within. Now, who benefits with Assad and Syria destroyed? Who provided the chemical weapons that were used in Damascus?

Now, over ten years later, they gained not only access but control. People sell themselves and their countries for money and money is one of the weapons used which does more damage than a fighter jet. It was money that made Syria vulnerable, a lot of those so-called FSA people were and still are in it for the money. There is an FSA video on Youtube in where the FSA general says that what the plan of USA, Israel and UK is to destroy Syria not simply to replace Assad. This is the reason the so-called civil war was prolonged and prolonged as more and more of Syria was being destroyed while others including the Israelis celebrate the destruction. When the first bombs went off in Syria the Israelis went under ground to the anti-bomb places they have - videos available on Youtube.

Washington created the FSA which became ISIS. Washington has not wanted to destroy ISIS, but, simply regain control of its ‘boys’. What made the FSA guys, unhappy, and turn into ISIS was exactly the lack of support from Washington that they were getting. The support was lacking because Washington did not want them to win too quickly, but, meanwhile the Official Syrian Army was hammering them. They were not happy and the rebels - rebelled. When Washington could not regain control, they blew up about 30-40 leaders (you can look up the exact number) but, still they could not ‘supposedly’ control them and the story goes on.

Back to Turkey. last year, right about this time, an American was decapitated by ISIS (talk about treason). A week or so later after the decapitation, the family published a letter the agent had sent to them while in captivity. When I read the letter I tried to decipher it. The person was a smart young man, and he was under the threat of losing his life and could not clearly communicate but I was certain he would try to communicate within the writings.

So, Turkey’s hands are very dirty when it comes to ISIS but of course, Turkey is being played by Washington and is a small player. I think in the future we will learn that the ISIS (that is if they are not all quickly killed before they can talk) people who were keeping the people they planned to decapitate were keeping them in Turkey. Turkey has been working very closing with Washington and ISIS.

I hope Russia and France keeps hitting the ISIS really hard and Assad remains in power and Israel can well… do whatever it wants.

I hope HIlary does not win as she is a puppet of certain interests groups in Washington who are behind all this and an expansionist plan for Israel. She is their puppet and they made her ‘political’ career to make her looks as though she qualifies to be president (Senator of New York/ Secretary of State). Her job is to destroy Iran. That is going to be a big problem for the world as Russia and China will not longer be playing around.

Peace
Very interesting and eye-opening Abba - many thanks.

This morning, my thoughts were what exactly are ‘Turkmen’ doing in Syria (sounds like something out of a Marvel comic book) - why do Turkish men care if the Syrians don’t like their leader (even though the majority of Syrians do). :confused:

Taking into account your piece above, IMO they’re also there, aside from causing havoc, to ensure they get their country’s promised ‘cheap’ share of Syrian oil, that’s under ISIS control, and to help ensure its’ safety and transport to Turkey. This fact has already been highlighted by the USA treasury, and was stated at the UK parliament yesterday, by a Labour MP - who was immediately accused of being a Russian sympathiser - ‘what a crime’:rolleyes:. :confused:

I mean, why would Turkish citizens care less about Syrians, and likewise if Turkey were ‘allegedly’ fighting their president in a civil war, would there be ‘Syri-men’ going over to ‘help’ them? I sincerely doubt it, why would any other country’s citizens care less, UNLESS there is something in it for them - i.e. getting paid for it and all the other perks of looting.

The ‘moderate rebels’ label is also hilarious - all those ‘nice’ rebels running around Syria, endangering their lives, so as to ‘help’ all the Syrian people, against their bad, nasty leader - Aye right. :rolleyes:

TPTB must think most of the public are zipped up the back.

It was interesting to note that the Daily Mail article, on the downing of the jet, yesterday - had 10,000 comments and 18,000 shares. 98% of the comments were pro-Russian, and most commentors knew ‘exactly’ what was going on. So, fortunately due to social media and the internet as a whole, the MSM have lost their sway over world events.

I don’t know why they bother anymore, with their lies and hypocrisy.
 
Turkey has been a big reason why ISIS remains in play in Syria. Turkey itself has its own Islamist tendencies, and the bigger threat to the Sunni world is not ISIS, but Iran.

Elsewhere, Russia and Iran are making nuclear deals. Even if America has been sidelined from the region, Turkey has no where else to go. Russia aiding Iran poses an intolerable risk for them.
Apparently, they are not going to make it easy for Russia in that theatre of war.
Is there any proof of this?
 
A little good news…

rt.com/news/323377-russian-pilot-saved-syria/

*The second Russian pilot, who ejected from the Su-24 bomber shot down by Turkey on Tuesday over Syria, is safe and sound and has been taken to the Russian airbase in Latakia, Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu said.

“The [rescue] operation is successfully over. The pilot has been delivered to our base. Safe and sound,” Shoigu said during a meeting of the Defense Committee, adding that the operation was performed by Russian and Syrian special forces.

Shoigu said the joint operation had taken about 12 hours and thanked all special forces’ personnel that took part in the operation to rescue the pilot.*
 
Very interesting and eye-opening Abba - many thanks.

This morning, my thoughts were what exactly are ‘Turkmen’ doing in Syria (sounds like something out of a Marvel comic book) - why do Turkish men care if the Syrians don’t like their leader (even though the majority of Syrians do). :confused:

Taking into account your piece above, IMO they’re also there, aside from causing havoc, to ensure they get their country’s promised ‘cheap’ share of Syrian oil, that’s under ISIS control, and to help ensure its’ safety and transport to Turkey. This fact has already been highlighted by the USA treasury, and was stated at the UK parliament yesterday, by a Labour MP - who was immediately accused of being a Russian sympathiser - ‘what a crime’:rolleyes:. :confused:

I mean, why would Turkish citizens care less about Syrians, and likewise if Turkey were ‘allegedly’ fighting their president in a civil war, would there be ‘Syri-men’ going over to ‘help’ them? I sincerely doubt it, why would any other country’s citizens care less, UNLESS there is something in it for them - i.e. getting paid for it and all the other perks of looting.

The ‘moderate rebels’ label is also hilarious - all those ‘nice’ rebels running around Syria, endangering their lives, so as to ‘help’ all the Syrian people, against their bad, nasty leader - Aye right. :rolleyes:

TPTB must think most of the public are zipped up the back.

It was interesting to note that the Daily Mail article, on the downing of the jet, yesterday - had 10,000 comments and 18,000 shares. 98% of the comments were pro-Russian, and most commentors knew ‘exactly’ what was going on. So, fortunately due to social media and the internet as a whole, the MSM have lost their sway over world events.

I don’t know why they bother anymore, with their lies and hypocrisy.
What’s hilarious is that Putin and Russia has recognized moderate rebels but somehow, one seems to think they know better and in the process, seems to demonstrate again, a lack of knowledge all the while pretending to out-know the experts with a condescending attitude.

Even the moderate forces met with Lavrov in Moscow. It really shows one is using an argument totally groundless in reality.

And who cares what comments in a story say, really, anyone can do that and as we know, there has been a building full of such writers reported in the Media, the Daily Mail as well in St. Petersburg, an internet Russian campaign has been reported.

Maybe those civilians are rebels too, the point of view is rather repugnant in that it seems to give one side the right to slaughter people, period.
 
The lack of consistency is demonstrated once again, whereas Russia has insisted that it is only hitting ISIS but some pro-Russian types don’t even seem to agree with that, lumping all rebels together.

By the way, if one actually uses information, one knows Russia was coming under scrutiny for hitting the Turkmen.

Again, lack of consistency makes the head swirl whereas it seems one asserts first off, the area Russia hit had ISIS, perhaps now that this is open to question, lumps all rebels together again.

A very poor argument as far as I’m concerned.
 
This morning, my thoughts were what exactly are ‘Turkmen’ doing in Syria (sounds like something out of a Marvel comic book) - why do Turkish men care if the Syrians don’t like their leader (even though the majority of Syrians do)
Really? A minority is described as something out of a comic book? Really? What if one said this about others.

:rotfl:

Turkmenistan is a present country, Turkmen was a Soviet State, in fact, part of the old USSR; perhaps this gets by the “expert” analysis once again. :rolleyes:
So even though, Turkmen are firmly rooted in that part of the world and the old USSR, now, we have the view they are just something that sounds like they are out of Marvel comic books. :rolleyes:
 
What’s hilarious is that Putin and Russia has recognized moderate rebels but somehow, one seems to think they know better and in the process, seems to demonstrate again, a lack of knowledge all the while pretending to out-know the experts with a condescending attitude.

Even the moderate forces met with Lavrov in Moscow.

And who cares what comments in a story say, really, anyone can do that and as we know, there has been a building full of such writers reported in the Media, the Daily Mail as well in St. Petersburg, an internet Russian campaign has been reported.
I can understand the Syrian freedom fighters - IF they’re of Syrian descent, ISIS as it’s out to get anybody and everybody, and possibly some of their offshoots, as they couldn’t care less what country they takeover.

But what are ‘Turkmen’ - when they’re at home - and what are they doing in Syria. 🤷 What has Syria’s situation got to do with Turkish nationalists.

Obviously there is a much bigger picture behind it all, but in reality the Syrian situation is a complete and utter farce.

It would be equivalent, in the Northern Ireland conflict, in the 70’s/80’s, with ‘extra rebels’ running around as well. E.G. the USA-expat warriors, the Scot-kilts men, the English-lions and possibly some miscellaneous ones e.g. from Timbuktu,:rolleyes: all risking their lives and fighting alongside to help the NI people, in their ‘civil conflict’. 🤷
 
Really? A minority is described as something out of a comic book? Really? What if one said this about others.

:rotfl:

Turkmenistan is a present country, Turkmen was a Soviet State, in fact, part of the old USSR; perhaps this gets by the “expert” analysis once again. :rolleyes:

So even though, Turkmen are firmly rooted in that part of the world and the old USSR, now, we have the view they are just something that sounds like they are out of Marvel comic books. :rolleyes:
Thanks for that information as I am not a historian - and only read what’s going on, on a day to day basis.

I had assumed as ‘Turkmen’ was thrown out as a reason yesterday as to why Erdogan had shot down the Russian jet, i.e. because of Turkmen rebels who had allegedly been hit by Russia, that the ‘Turkmen’ were from Turkey. 😃

It’s even more confusing now, and I unfortunately have too low a boredom threshold to work this ‘new/old’ relationship out, between Turkey and Turkmen - hence my ‘marvel comic book’ comment as I thought they were Turkish. 🙂

I now haven’t a baldy what’s going on in Syria.
 
A full 10-15 seconds worth of airspace violation, to kill two men doing Turkey no harm, just fighting terrorism.

Turkey must have been fully armed and ready too - if that map is correct.
I’m with you pepipop…

All I can say is I have no respect for Turkey and I’m pissed at those who try to justify this and stand by Turkey (especially using NATO). Fair enough if Turkey wants to defend it’s air space, but it’s obvious there was malice involved in this. They are fighting ISIS in Syria who obviously are right on Turkeys door step.

I feel sorry for Putin and the Russian people and my prayers are with them. I hope Turkey gets kicked out of NATO and I hope Obama and the rest of NATO recognize the gross overreaction and malice involved in Turkey’s actions.

I also hope Putin will not retaliate severely and that other NATO members will stand up and correct Turkey and seek peace and reconciliation with Putin.

If this ever did blow up, there is no way I would support Turkey and likewise NATO while ever Turkey is a part of it.

Anyway, these are my views with the information I current have on this.

“For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.”

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
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