Turkey 'downs Russian warplane on Syria border' - BBC

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Path_Finder said:
Oh, sure, as if we have not heard of passenger airliners going down from Buk missiles.

Really, this is all too much, Russia is always right, every other country is always wrong.
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What’s the problem? Iraq and Russia most likely have discussed this with each other.

No-one knows who took down the airline, it was either Ukrainian or pro-Russian Ukrainians - nothing to do with Russia - and no-one knows which group fired it.
 
O God of spirits and of all flesh, Who hast trampled down death and overthrown the Devil, and given life to Thy world, do Thou, the same Lord, give rest to the souls of Thy departed servants in a place of brightness, a place of refreshment, a place of repose, where all sickness, sighing, and sorrow have fled away. Pardon every transgression which they have committed, whether by word or deed or thought. For Thou art a good God and lovest mankind; because there is no man who lives yet does not sin, for Thou only art without sin, Thy righteousness is to all eternity, and Thy word is truth.

For Thou are the Resurrection, the Life, and the Repose of Thy servants who have fallen asleep, O Christ our God, and unto Thee we ascribe glory, together with Thy Father, who is from everlasting, and Thine all-holy, good, and life-creating Spirit, now and ever unto ages of ages. Amen.

I offer that for the repose of the Syrian Civilians killed by Regime bombs and Russian bombs, by coalition bombs, by American bombs, the non-ISIS casualties inflicted as well.
 
pepipop said:
What’s the problem? Iraq and Russia most likely have discussed this with each other.
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Then maybe you can find a link that shows this is so.

What’s the problem? The airport said Russian missiles are coming too close for comfort.
No-one knows who took down the airline, it was either Ukrainian or pro-Russian Ukrainians - nothing to do with Russia - and no-one knows which group fired it.
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One country is under sanctions, one country would be more able to provide those missiles, one country has been held responsible by investigations and it is not Ukraine.

O God of spirits and of all flesh, Who hast trampled down death and overthrown the Devil, and given life to Thy world, do Thou, the same Lord, give rest to the souls of Thy departed servants in a place of brightness, a place of refreshment, a place of repose, where all sickness, sighing, and sorrow have fled away. Pardon every transgression which they have committed, whether by word or deed or thought. For Thou art a good God and lovest mankind; because there is no man who lives yet does not sin, for Thou only art without sin, Thy righteousness is to all eternity, and Thy word is truth.

For Thou are the Resurrection, the Life, and the Repose of Thy servants who have fallen asleep, O Christ our God, and unto Thee we ascribe glory, together with Thy Father, who is from everlasting, and Thine all-holy, good, and life-creating Spirit, now and ever unto ages of ages. Amen.

I offer that for the repose of the passengers on that airliner killed by a Buk Missile.
 
The Red Line and the Rat Line
Seymour M. Hersh on Obama, Erdoğan and the Syrian rebels
lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m-hersh/the-red-line-and-the-rat-line

The idea was to provide the FSA with chemical weapons and have them use it and then blame it on Assad. This would provide an excuse to outright attack the country. But, Obama realized it was not going to fool the public enough nor governments who are not accomplices and backed out of his ‘red line’ narrative .

What hypocrisy, now Washington wants to pretend to the world that it cares about the Syrian people. To call an internal daily memo on Syria, “Syrup” is quite sick. The Israelis did well in hiding in those underground bunkers when the first bombs went off in Syria, I as well, was expecting Assad to retaliate and attack Israel. Perhaps, just as Israel is playing the time game, so is everyone else, and using the time to prepare in the event of an all out war. But, there are many diplomatic and strategic ways to address these problems without having to recourse to military action and this for the good of all the people.

“In a world conflict, there can be no winner. It would be mutual destruction. Guaranteed.” Putin. rt.com/news/319405-putin-valdai-discussion-club/
 
Path_Finder said:
Then maybe you can find a link that shows this is so.

One country is under sanctions, one country would be more able to provide those missiles, one country has been held responsible by investigations and it is not Ukraine.

O God of spirits and of all flesh, Who hast trampled down death and overthrown the Devil, and given life to Thy world, do Thou, the same Lord, give rest to the souls of Thy departed servants in a place of brightness, a place of refreshment, a place of repose, where all sickness, sighing, and sorrow have fled away. Pardon every transgression which they have committed, whether by word or deed or thought. For Thou art a good God and lovest mankind; because there is no man who lives yet does not sin, for Thou only art without sin, Thy righteousness is to all eternity, and Thy word is truth.

For Thou are the Resurrection, the Life, and the Repose of Thy servants who have fallen asleep, O Christ our God, and unto Thee we ascribe glory, together with Thy Father, who is from everlasting, and Thine all-holy, good, and life-creating Spirit, now and ever unto ages of ages. Amen.

I offer that for the repose of the passengers on that airliner killed by a Buk Missile.
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Where has Russia ever been held responsible. The investigation is still open, and Russia is not in the equation. BUKs were used in Ukraine too, and other post-USSR countries it doesn’t matter where they were manufactured.

If that was the case then the Russian jet was taken down by, USA manufactured, F-16’s, yesterday, so by default is the USA to blame?

washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/10/13/a-dutch-report-will-say-what-downed-mh17-it-wont-blame-the-russians/

But the findings left unresolved the central question of responsibility, which became even murkier this week with conflicting reports from the missile’s manufacturer. The report also did not specify what generation of missile brought down the plane. The Buk surface-to-air missile system, first developed in early 1970s by the Soviet Union, is part of the Russian arsenal and is a complicated air defense weapon designed to locate and engage targets by radar. While older versions are no longer in use by the Russians, various types of Buk systems are used by Ukraine and some other former Soviet republics.
 
So, Iraq somehow agreed with the Russians to ground flights in Iraq, because missiles seem to be flying over Iraqi airspace. Wow. Just wow. Ask oneself if this is even relevant and it does seem uncommon logically as well, as if a country would need to agree with this with a foreign country.
 
Ridgerunner said:
It was a Russian missile, for certain. No doubt about that. It could have also been fired by regular Russian troops or Russian agents.

thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/17/how-we-know-russia-shot-down-mh17.html

The least likely perps were Ukrainians opposing the Russian invasion.
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No-one knows that, it could have been pro-Russian separatists, Ukrainians, or the Ukrainian army.

washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/10/13/a-dutch-report-will-say-what-downed-mh17-it-wont-blame-the-russians/
 
Path_Finder said:
So, Iraq somehow agreed with the Russians to ground flights in Iraq, because missiles seem to be flying over Iraqi airspace. Wow. Just wow.
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What’s so 'Wow just wow’ about that.

You think they can’t lift the phone and talk and say what is happening. How would Iraq know otherwise - why only close their airports for 2 days then? Are they going to risk everyone’s life on days 3,4 and 5 🤷 - or perhaps they have been asked and have agreed to it?
 
pepipop said:
No-one knows that, it could have been pro-Russian separatists, Ukrainians, or the Ukrainian army.

washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/10/13/a-dutch-report-will-say-what-downed-mh17-it-wont-blame-the-russians/
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Left out the Russian military from your list, of course, or Russian agents, both the most likely.

Nobody really believes it was the Ukrainian military, let alone “Ukrainians”.

I think this, from your article, pretty well tells us what the likelihood is:

“In July, Russia vetoed a United Nations Security Council resolution that would have established an international criminal tribunal to investigate the MH17 attack.”
 
Ridgerunner said:
Left out the Russian military from your list, of course, or Russian agents, both the most likely.

Nobody really believes it was the Ukrainian military, let alone “Ukrainians”.
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You had them in your list, so this is my list.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Left out the Russian military from your list, of course, or Russian agents, both the most likely.

Nobody really believes it was the Ukrainian military, let alone “Ukrainians”.

I think this, from your article, pretty well tells us what the likelihood is:

"In July, Russia vetoed a United Nations Security Council resolution that would have established an international criminal tribunal to investigate the MH17 attack."
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Well done: 👍
 
pepipop said:
You had them in your list, so this is my list.
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:rotfl: Still Putin’s guy.🙂 Won’t admit of even the possibility, held by most, that it was Russian military or Russian agents. Oh well. Off topic anyway.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Left out the Russian military from your list, of course, or Russian agents, both the most likely.

Nobody really believes it was the Ukrainian military, let alone “Ukrainians”.

I think this, from your article, pretty well tells us what the likelihood is:

“In July, Russia vetoed a United Nations Security Council resolution that would have established an international criminal tribunal to investigate the MH17 attack.”
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It’s the Washington Post, and anti-Russian bias is par for the course. It was just to prove, using an American source, the fact that no group has been blamed yet, which had been suggested in an earlier post.
 
Ridgerunner said:
:rotfl: Still Putin’s guy.🙂 Won’t admit of even the possibility, held by most, that it was Russian military or Russian agents. Oh well. Off topic anyway.
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I’m female.

You had them on your list, so why repeat it. Why did you not include the Ukrainian possibilities, or as you stated - the least likely perps being same?

Ok then, I’ll add the least likely perps being the Russian military or Russian agents. 🙂
 
Ridgerunner said:
Oops. Forgot. You are a woman, not a guy. Pardon.
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You did?

I value the understanding of males and females equally, the value judgement I make is on what is being stated. I don’t put more weight on a comment because it was made by a male. I hope you are not trying to degrade the value of pepipop’s comments by pointing out that she is a female. That’s being pretty desperate.
 
‘Well-staged shot in back’: Intl community slams Turkey’s attack on Russian jet

‘Turkish attack may only worsen atmosphere in Syria’ – Czech president
…
“Sometimes one may suspect that Turkey has informal contacts with Islamic State [IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL]. Considering that the Russian Air Force is fighting IS, the attack appears to be a too radical measure, that will only worsen the atmosphere in the region,” he said, as cited by Czech press.
**
‘Turkey entered war on the side of ISIS’ – Italian politician**
“Turkey has officially entered the war on the side of ISIL by downing at the order of [President Recep Tayyip] Erdogan a Russian aircraft which has participated in operations against Islamic terrorists in Syria,” Roberto Calderoli, the leading member of the Northern League (Lega Nord) Party wrote on his Facebook page.

‘A well-staged shot in the back’ – French MEP
“The Turkish government is playing really foul games,” French MEP Jean-Luc Melenchon, leader of the Left Party, wrote on his Facebook page.

‘Turkey aggressively violated Syria’s sovereignty’ – Syrian FM

“This incident has shown the world that Erdogan and his government are helping terrorists in Syria.”

“The effort to destroy the forces of Islamic State and other terrorist groups offended Turkey. That is why they aggressively violated Syria’s sovereignty and attacked the Su-24 in its airspace,” he added.

Shooting down of Russian fighter is ‘unacceptable’ - Cyprus

Downing of Russian plane a blow to anti-terrorist efforts – Armenia

rt.com/news/323427-downed-jet-world-reaction/
 
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