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Path_Finder
Guest
Some news behind the scenes may have had something to do with this matter:
- Status
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Path_Finder
Guest
[=381#.Vlarx16KZVJ"]Jamestown story previous post]("http://www.jamestown.org/single/?tx_ttnews[tt_news)
That seems to work.
That seems to work.
A
Abba
Guest
Were the reporter’s attacked the same day as the pilots? It seems so. Well, two strikes in one day, weakens the argument about the supposed violation of air space.
Moment RT crew’s car hit by mortar shell in Syria caught on camera (VIDEOS)
Syrian Minister of Information Omran Al-Zoubi condemned the attack on the Russian correspondents.
“The attack on the RT team is a new crime committed by terror groups and the states which are sponsoring and equipping militants – primarily, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar. It is a desperate attempt to keep the truth from the world,” he said.
rt.com/news/323275-rt-crew-injured-missile/
Moment RT crew’s car hit by mortar shell in Syria caught on camera (VIDEOS)
Syrian Minister of Information Omran Al-Zoubi condemned the attack on the Russian correspondents.
“The attack on the RT team is a new crime committed by terror groups and the states which are sponsoring and equipping militants – primarily, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar. It is a desperate attempt to keep the truth from the world,” he said.
rt.com/news/323275-rt-crew-injured-missile/
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Path_Finder
Guest
Hopefully, Assad, ISIS, Putin should be all put on trial at the Hague, especially for attacking a Christian country like Ukraine.
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pepipop
Guest
rt.com/op-edge/323531-hell-place-pilots-russia/
John Wight has written for newspapers and websites across the world, including the Independent, Morning Star, Huffington Post, Counterpunch, London Progressive Journal, and Foreign Policy Journal. He is also a regular commentator on RT and BBC Radio. He wrote a memoir of the five years he spent in Hollywood, where he worked in the movie industry prior to becoming a full time and activist and organizer with the US antiwar movement post-9/11.
Hell has special place for murderers of downed pilots
*Only a grotesque distortion of the English language could apply the word ‘moderate’ to people that shoot pilots as they parachute helplessly to the ground. Yet these are the very people being armed and supported by Turkey and its Western allies.
A special place in hell is reserved for those who murder downed pilots as they descend to the ground after ejecting from crippled aircraft. It was a practice associated with the SS during the Second World War and is now labelled a war crime under the Geneva Convention.
As if this isn’t bad enough, the Turkmen ‘rebels’ responsible for this vile deed filmed the body of the Russian pilot they had shot and could be heard repeating religious slogans. At one point they even discuss burning the body.
These are the moderates the world is constantly being assured constitute the answer to both ISIS and Assad. In so doing they have plumbed the depths of indecency and immorality these past five years, as they work for the Islamization of Syria and its destruction as a secular state in which the rights of religious and ethnic minorities are protected and upheld.
The Turkmen, however, are the one Syrian minority that has thrown in their lot with the opposition. They are ethnic Turks and in Syria number between 100,000-200,000, primarily located close to the Syrian border with Turkey in the north of the country. Not only have they been fighting against Syrian government forces, they have also been involved in fighting against the Kurds of Syria, under the influence of their Turkish ally and sponsor.
The idea that there is such an entity as moderate rebels fighting in the Syrian conflict was exposed as a myth before this incident. It was exposed, for example, back in 2013 when an FSA commander had himself filmed cutting open the body of a dead Syrian soldier, before removing his inner organs and taking a bite out of them .
None other than retired US supreme NATO commander General Wesley Clark agrees. In a recent interview with CNN, he said: “All along there’s always been the idea that Turkey was supporting ISIS in some way,” before going on to opine: “Someone’s buying that oil that ISIS is selling, it’s going through somewhere, it looks to me like it’s probably going through Turkey.”*
John Wight has written for newspapers and websites across the world, including the Independent, Morning Star, Huffington Post, Counterpunch, London Progressive Journal, and Foreign Policy Journal. He is also a regular commentator on RT and BBC Radio. He wrote a memoir of the five years he spent in Hollywood, where he worked in the movie industry prior to becoming a full time and activist and organizer with the US antiwar movement post-9/11.
Hell has special place for murderers of downed pilots
*Only a grotesque distortion of the English language could apply the word ‘moderate’ to people that shoot pilots as they parachute helplessly to the ground. Yet these are the very people being armed and supported by Turkey and its Western allies.
A special place in hell is reserved for those who murder downed pilots as they descend to the ground after ejecting from crippled aircraft. It was a practice associated with the SS during the Second World War and is now labelled a war crime under the Geneva Convention.
As if this isn’t bad enough, the Turkmen ‘rebels’ responsible for this vile deed filmed the body of the Russian pilot they had shot and could be heard repeating religious slogans. At one point they even discuss burning the body.
These are the moderates the world is constantly being assured constitute the answer to both ISIS and Assad. In so doing they have plumbed the depths of indecency and immorality these past five years, as they work for the Islamization of Syria and its destruction as a secular state in which the rights of religious and ethnic minorities are protected and upheld.
The Turkmen, however, are the one Syrian minority that has thrown in their lot with the opposition. They are ethnic Turks and in Syria number between 100,000-200,000, primarily located close to the Syrian border with Turkey in the north of the country. Not only have they been fighting against Syrian government forces, they have also been involved in fighting against the Kurds of Syria, under the influence of their Turkish ally and sponsor.
The idea that there is such an entity as moderate rebels fighting in the Syrian conflict was exposed as a myth before this incident. It was exposed, for example, back in 2013 when an FSA commander had himself filmed cutting open the body of a dead Syrian soldier, before removing his inner organs and taking a bite out of them .
None other than retired US supreme NATO commander General Wesley Clark agrees. In a recent interview with CNN, he said: “All along there’s always been the idea that Turkey was supporting ISIS in some way,” before going on to opine: “Someone’s buying that oil that ISIS is selling, it’s going through somewhere, it looks to me like it’s probably going through Turkey.”*
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pepipop
Guest
Charles J. Dunlap, Jr.
Advocate
Major General Charles J. Dunlap Jr. retired in February 2010 as the Deputy Judge Advocate General, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington,
Professor of the Practice of Law
Executive Director, Center on Law, Ethics and National Security
An informed opinion by a retired USAF major general.
thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/international/261300-russians-may-have-a-strong-case-in-turkish-shootdown
*The shootdown of the Russian Su-24 bomber by Turkish F-16s raises a number of critical issues under international law that the U.S. needs to carefully navigate. This is especially so since the result of the Turkish action was the apparently illegal killing by Syrian rebels of one of the Russian aircrew, as well as the possibly unlawful death of a Russian marine attempting to rescue the downed aviators.
While President Obama is certainly correct in saying that “Turkey, like every country, has a right to defend its territory and its airspace,” exactly how it may do so is more complicated than the president implies. In fact, the Russians may have strong legal arguments that any such right under international law was wrongly asserted in this instance.
When is self-defense triggered?*
*Article 51 of the U.N. charter permits the use of force in the event of an “armed attack.” However, in a 1986 case, the International Court of Justice concluded that a “mere frontier incident” might constitute a breach of the U.N. charter, but did not necessarily trigger the right to use force absent a showing that the attack was of a significant scale and effect. Most nations also accept that states threatened with an imminent attack can respond in self-defense so long as they did not have under the circumstances “any means of halting the attack other than recourse to armed force,” as noted by Leo Van den hole in the American University International Law Review.
The problem here is that the Turks are not asserting that any armed attack took place or, for that matter, that any armed attack was even being contemplated by the Russians. Instead, in a letter to the U.N., the Turks only claimed that the Russians had “violated their national airspace to a depth of 1.36 to 1.15 miles in length for 17 seconds.” They also say that the Russians were warned “10 times” (something the Russians dispute) and that the Turkish jets fired upon them in accordance with the Turks’ “rules of engagement.” Of course, national rules of engagement cannot trump the requirements of international law. Moreover, international law also requires any force in self-defense be proportional to the threat addressed.
Thus, the legal question is this: Is a mere 17-second border incursion of such significance and scale as to justify as “proportional” the use of deadly force as the only recourse — particularly where there is no indication that the Russians were going to actually attack anything on Turkish soil?
The U.S., so far, is staying mum about what it may know about the precise location of the planes (which the Russians insist never entered Turkish airspace). What is more is that even if the Russians had penetrated Turkish airspace, that fact alone would not necessarily legally authorize the use of force, absent a showing of hostile intent (which the Turks are not alleging). Additionally, it is quite possible that the Russian aircraft may have penetrated Turkish airspace — if at all — because of a bona fide navigational misunderstanding occasioned by the satellite guidance system the Russians employ. Navigation errors are not an adequate reason to use deadly force.
In short, it appears at this point that the Turkish case justifying the use of deadly force is, at best, weak. Nevertheless, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said that NATO stands “in solidarity with Turkey.” However, it may have been more prudent to withhold judgment until all the facts are definitively known and a full legal analysis is complete. Why? Article 5 of the NATO treaty governing self-defense tracks almost exactly with the Article 51 of the U.N. charter, so if the facts show illegality under international law, that would undercut the wisdom of NATO standing “in solidarity” with any nation.
If Turkey was wrong on this one, the U.S. should say so, regardless of whatever other disputes we may have with the Russians. A friend should always tell a friend when they made a mistake. It really is that simple.*
Advocate
Major General Charles J. Dunlap Jr. retired in February 2010 as the Deputy Judge Advocate General, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington,
Professor of the Practice of Law
Executive Director, Center on Law, Ethics and National Security
An informed opinion by a retired USAF major general.
thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/international/261300-russians-may-have-a-strong-case-in-turkish-shootdown
*The shootdown of the Russian Su-24 bomber by Turkish F-16s raises a number of critical issues under international law that the U.S. needs to carefully navigate. This is especially so since the result of the Turkish action was the apparently illegal killing by Syrian rebels of one of the Russian aircrew, as well as the possibly unlawful death of a Russian marine attempting to rescue the downed aviators.
While President Obama is certainly correct in saying that “Turkey, like every country, has a right to defend its territory and its airspace,” exactly how it may do so is more complicated than the president implies. In fact, the Russians may have strong legal arguments that any such right under international law was wrongly asserted in this instance.
When is self-defense triggered?*
*Article 51 of the U.N. charter permits the use of force in the event of an “armed attack.” However, in a 1986 case, the International Court of Justice concluded that a “mere frontier incident” might constitute a breach of the U.N. charter, but did not necessarily trigger the right to use force absent a showing that the attack was of a significant scale and effect. Most nations also accept that states threatened with an imminent attack can respond in self-defense so long as they did not have under the circumstances “any means of halting the attack other than recourse to armed force,” as noted by Leo Van den hole in the American University International Law Review.
The problem here is that the Turks are not asserting that any armed attack took place or, for that matter, that any armed attack was even being contemplated by the Russians. Instead, in a letter to the U.N., the Turks only claimed that the Russians had “violated their national airspace to a depth of 1.36 to 1.15 miles in length for 17 seconds.” They also say that the Russians were warned “10 times” (something the Russians dispute) and that the Turkish jets fired upon them in accordance with the Turks’ “rules of engagement.” Of course, national rules of engagement cannot trump the requirements of international law. Moreover, international law also requires any force in self-defense be proportional to the threat addressed.
Thus, the legal question is this: Is a mere 17-second border incursion of such significance and scale as to justify as “proportional” the use of deadly force as the only recourse — particularly where there is no indication that the Russians were going to actually attack anything on Turkish soil?
The U.S., so far, is staying mum about what it may know about the precise location of the planes (which the Russians insist never entered Turkish airspace). What is more is that even if the Russians had penetrated Turkish airspace, that fact alone would not necessarily legally authorize the use of force, absent a showing of hostile intent (which the Turks are not alleging). Additionally, it is quite possible that the Russian aircraft may have penetrated Turkish airspace — if at all — because of a bona fide navigational misunderstanding occasioned by the satellite guidance system the Russians employ. Navigation errors are not an adequate reason to use deadly force.
In short, it appears at this point that the Turkish case justifying the use of deadly force is, at best, weak. Nevertheless, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said that NATO stands “in solidarity with Turkey.” However, it may have been more prudent to withhold judgment until all the facts are definitively known and a full legal analysis is complete. Why? Article 5 of the NATO treaty governing self-defense tracks almost exactly with the Article 51 of the U.N. charter, so if the facts show illegality under international law, that would undercut the wisdom of NATO standing “in solidarity” with any nation.
If Turkey was wrong on this one, the U.S. should say so, regardless of whatever other disputes we may have with the Russians. A friend should always tell a friend when they made a mistake. It really is that simple.*
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Seamus_L
Guest
Russia deploys missiles in Syria after Turkey shoots down bomber foxnews.com/world/2015/11/26/russia-rescues-pilot-downed-warplane-from-rebel-territory/
I think it was about time for this anyway.
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pepipop
Guest
Ret. Lt Gen Tom McInerney on the Turkish shoot down of the Russian jet.
The Greek/Turkish one minute silence, at the football match, is an eye-opener too.
video.foxnews.com/v/4632053019001/can-we-trust-turkey-to-help-fight-terror/?#sp=show-clips
The Greek/Turkish one minute silence, at the football match, is an eye-opener too.
video.foxnews.com/v/4632053019001/can-we-trust-turkey-to-help-fight-terror/?#sp=show-clips
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pepipop
Guest
Hmm, he must not have read the report, written by the US treasury official, a few months back. I wonder will he accuse him of slander too and all the others, possibly sue them all.
He could make a quare, bit packet out of it all.
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3334650/Russia-enters-diplomatic-food-fight-Turkey-Putin-tells-shoppers-stop-buying-Turkish-tomatoes-funding-missile-shoot-boys.html
*Turkey accuses Russia of SLANDER for saying they buy oil from ISIS… as Moscow has 39 Turkish businessmen arrested and deported in escalating row over downed fighter jet
According to Yugopolis , the men had entered Russia on tourists visas when they should have obtained business visas.
The businessmen say they didn’t know they had violated immigration laws but were arrested and deported by authorities anyway.
Meanwhile Russia stepped up its response in the fall out of the downing of their jet ,with their leader Vladimir Putin saying Turkey has still not apologised for downing the jet or given assurances that the ‘culprits of the crime’ will be punished.
He added that he regretted the fact that relations between Turkey and Russia have been driven into a stalemate.
He could make a quare, bit packet out of it all.
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3334650/Russia-enters-diplomatic-food-fight-Turkey-Putin-tells-shoppers-stop-buying-Turkish-tomatoes-funding-missile-shoot-boys.html
*Turkey accuses Russia of SLANDER for saying they buy oil from ISIS… as Moscow has 39 Turkish businessmen arrested and deported in escalating row over downed fighter jet
According to Yugopolis , the men had entered Russia on tourists visas when they should have obtained business visas.
The businessmen say they didn’t know they had violated immigration laws but were arrested and deported by authorities anyway.
Meanwhile Russia stepped up its response in the fall out of the downing of their jet ,with their leader Vladimir Putin saying Turkey has still not apologised for downing the jet or given assurances that the ‘culprits of the crime’ will be punished.
He added that he regretted the fact that relations between Turkey and Russia have been driven into a stalemate.
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TaurusRex
Guest
Amen 
Something I forgot to say in my last post was please observe that I’ve put “moderate rebels” in quotes because I agree with a poster’s remark that these jihadists probably duck in and out of ISIS when they feel a need to hide
And also, who invited the USA into Syrian airspace?
rex
Amen
Something I forgot to say in my last post was please observe that I’ve put “moderate rebels” in quotes because I agree with a poster’s remark that these jihadists probably duck in and out of ISIS when they feel a need to hide
And also, who invited the USA into Syrian airspace?
rex
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bibcat
Guest
Figures Russia’s cheerleaders and fellow travelers would come out of the woodwork. Most likely that S-400 is basically a gussied-up Cold War era system, packaged with a heaping helping of disinformation to make Putin-worshippers think it’s a killer system that can knock out a hummingbird at 200 miles.
Hint: Russian SAM guidance radars are easily jammed. Look at what happened to Saddam Hussein’s air defense in the early days of Desert Storm. Jam or knock out (with HARM or Standard ARMs) the radars and the missiles are just giant doorstops.
And if Putin plays too rough with Turkey, Turkey will scream “Article 5”, and that’s the end of Russia.
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Path_Finder
Guest
thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/27/russia-bombs-hospitals-lefties-shrug.html
I agree, there is way too much of a double-standard.
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pepipop
Guest
Well is was ‘good’
of Erdogan to breach Article 51 of the UN charter - equivalent to Article 5 of NATO - to enable this, and force Putin to change MO.If his jet and pilots hadn’t been blown out of the sky, by Turkey, then his other strategy would have continued. Article 5 wasn’t applied to too closely by Turkey’s actions in shooting the jet down, see below, in the first place.
The retired US General, and Professor of Law in based in the USA, and is a Professor in the area of Ethics and National Security. So it would be hoped he, at least, would know what he is talking about.
thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blo…kish-shootdown
*Article 51 of the U.N. charter permits the use of force in the event of an “armed attack.” However, in a 1986 case, the International Court of Justice concluded that a “mere frontier incident” might constitute a breach of the U.N. charter, but did not necessarily trigger the right to use force absent a showing that the attack was of a significant scale and effect. Most nations also accept that states threatened with an imminent attack can respond in self-defense so long as they did not have under the circumstances “any means of halting the attack other than recourse to armed force,” as noted by Leo Van den hole in the American University International Law Review.
The problem here is that the Turks are not asserting that any armed attack took place or, for that matter, that any armed attack was even being contemplated by the Russians. Instead, in a letter to the U.N., the Turks only claimed that the Russians had “violated their national airspace to a depth of 1.36 to 1.15 miles in length for 17 seconds.” They also say that the Russians were warned “10 times” (something the Russians dispute) and that the Turkish jets fired upon them in accordance with the Turks’ “rules of engagement.” Of course, national rules of engagement cannot trump the requirements of international law. Moreover, international law also requires any force in self-defense be proportional to the threat addressed.
Why? Article 5 of the NATO treaty governing self-defense tracks almost exactly with the Article 51 of the U.N. charter, so if the facts show illegality under international law, that would undercut the wisdom of NATO standing “in solidarity” with any nation.*
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Path_Finder
Guest
This story from 2012 is curious, I was not aware of this previous confronation:
timesofisrael.com/turkish-pilots-were-murdered-by-asads-regime-after-he-downed-their-plane-at-russias-suggestion-documents-show/
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Abba
Guest
Turkish newspaper editor in court for ‘espionage’ after revealing weapon convoy to Syrian militants
Dündar arrived at an Istanbul court on Thursday, saying that he and his colleague “came here to defend journalism.”
“We came here to defend the right of the public to obtain the news and their right to know if their government is feeding them lies. We came here to show and to prove that governments cannot engage in illegal activity and defend this,” Dündar was cited by Today’s Zaman.
The articles, published on Cumhuriyet’s front page in May, claimed that Turkey’s National Intelligence Organization (MİT) is smuggling weapons in trucks into Syria and was caught doing so twice in 2014. The trucks were allegedly stopped and searched by police, with photos and videos of their contents obtained by Cumhuriyet.
rt.com/news/323557-turkey-arrests-editor-cumhuriyet/
I think the Erdogan and Washington planned this attack. Unfortunately, Turkey is playing into a deadly hand. Everything the did for Washington, underground, will be used to justify their destruction as the game develops. Hopefully, the Russians and China will stop the monsters behind all this from achieiving their goal and peace can reign on earth.
Speaking of Turkey, I better check on my 22lb stuffed Butterball.
Dündar arrived at an Istanbul court on Thursday, saying that he and his colleague “came here to defend journalism.”
“We came here to defend the right of the public to obtain the news and their right to know if their government is feeding them lies. We came here to show and to prove that governments cannot engage in illegal activity and defend this,” Dündar was cited by Today’s Zaman.
The articles, published on Cumhuriyet’s front page in May, claimed that Turkey’s National Intelligence Organization (MİT) is smuggling weapons in trucks into Syria and was caught doing so twice in 2014. The trucks were allegedly stopped and searched by police, with photos and videos of their contents obtained by Cumhuriyet.
rt.com/news/323557-turkey-arrests-editor-cumhuriyet/
I think the Erdogan and Washington planned this attack. Unfortunately, Turkey is playing into a deadly hand. Everything the did for Washington, underground, will be used to justify their destruction as the game develops. Hopefully, the Russians and China will stop the monsters behind all this from achieiving their goal and peace can reign on earth.
Speaking of Turkey, I better check on my 22lb stuffed Butterball.
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pepipop
Guest
A good analogy of how it is impossible for Turkey to have been warning the Russian jet, for over a 5 minute period - and for a total of 10 times - unless they either have a crystal ball, or a resident seer working on staff, who can see into the future.
mostlyoff.wordpress.com/2015/11/26/a-turkish-5-minutes/
*As for the second point, it is a simple mathematical exercise. Let us begin by estimating the speed of the Russian Su-24 jet. The jets flew for 2.19km and 1.85km above Turkey for 17 seconds, therefore their speed is 463km/h and 392km/h respectively (the maximum speed of a Su-24 is 1315km/h) we need to fix certain parameters, so let’s assume that the jets flew at a constant speed of 400km/h, and that the 10 Turkish warning were delivered at an equal intervals, which means, 1 warning every 33.3 seconds. Also, let’s consider that the last warning was issued the moment the Russian jets breached the Turkish airspace.
According to this scenario, we can draw a map showing the location of the jets, the moment warnings were issued:
(I’ll be using the map produced by The New York Times, and add circles for the warnings with the respective number of the warning- orange circles are warnings for the downed jet, the blue ones for the second Russian jet):*
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
*This exercise can determine, approximately, that Turkish warnings began at a time when the Russian jets trajectories were not heading towards Turkey, but rather to the east, and away from Turkish border.
Obviously, the Turkish government and military can read into the future …*
times - unless they either have a crystal ball, or a resident seer working on staff, who can see into the future.mostlyoff.wordpress.com/2015/11/26/a-turkish-5-minutes/
*As for the second point, it is a simple mathematical exercise. Let us begin by estimating the speed of the Russian Su-24 jet. The jets flew for 2.19km and 1.85km above Turkey for 17 seconds, therefore their speed is 463km/h and 392km/h respectively (the maximum speed of a Su-24 is 1315km/h) we need to fix certain parameters, so let’s assume that the jets flew at a constant speed of 400km/h, and that the 10 Turkish warning were delivered at an equal intervals, which means, 1 warning every 33.3 seconds. Also, let’s consider that the last warning was issued the moment the Russian jets breached the Turkish airspace.
According to this scenario, we can draw a map showing the location of the jets, the moment warnings were issued:
(I’ll be using the map produced by The New York Times, and add circles for the warnings with the respective number of the warning- orange circles are warnings for the downed jet, the blue ones for the second Russian jet):*
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
*This exercise can determine, approximately, that Turkish warnings began at a time when the Russian jets trajectories were not heading towards Turkey, but rather to the east, and away from Turkish border.
Obviously, the Turkish government and military can read into the future …*
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pepipop
Guest
Turkey got their orders, and are now being hung out to dry…same old, same old.Turkish newspaper editor in court for ‘espionage’ after revealing weapon convoy to Syrian militants
Dündar arrived at an Istanbul court on Thursday, saying that he and his colleague “came here to defend journalism.”
“We came here to defend the right of the public to obtain the news and their right to know if their government is feeding them lies. We came here to show and to prove that governments cannot engage in illegal activity and defend this,” Dündar was cited by Today’s Zaman.
The articles, published on Cumhuriyet’s front page in May, claimed that Turkey’s National Intelligence Organization (MİT) is smuggling weapons in trucks into Syria and was caught doing so twice in 2014. The trucks were allegedly stopped and searched by police, with photos and videos of their contents obtained by Cumhuriyet.
rt.com/news/323557-turkey-arrests-editor-cumhuriyet/
I think the Erdogan and Washington planned this attack. Unfortunately, Turkey is playing into a deadly hand. Everything the did for Washington, underground, will be used to justify their destruction as the game develops. Hopefully, the Russians and China will stop the monsters behind all this from achieiving their goal and peace can reign on earth.
Speaking of Turkey, I better check on my 22lb stuffed Butterball.
Unfortunately, although there are already ISIS sympathisers in Turkey, this in the longer term will produce even more radicals, when Turkey actually catches on that it’s been left to carry the can.
In retrospect, very little was made of the Greece/Turkey football match, during the minute of silence for the Parisian victims - that was disrupted by the ‘Turkish’ fans shouting continually, with pro-ISIS chants.
BUT Turkey is a ‘secular’ country, don’t ya know.
ibtimes.co.uk/turkey-football-fans-boo-during-minute-silence-paris-terror-attack-victims-1529242
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Abba
Guest
Good job.A good analogy of how it is impossible for Turkey to have been warning the Russian jet, for over a 5 minute period - and for a total of 10
mostlyoff.wordpress.com/2015/11/26/a-turkish-5-minutes/
*As for the second point, it is a simple mathematical exercise. Let us begin by estimating the speed of the Russian Su-24 jet. The jets flew for 2.19km and 1.85km above Turkey for 17 seconds, therefore their speed is 463km/h and 392km/h respectively (the maximum speed of a Su-24 is 1315km/h) we need to fix certain parameters, so let’s assume that the jets flew at a constant speed of 400km/h, and that the 10 Turkish warning were delivered at an equal intervals, which means, 1 warning every 33.3 seconds. Also, let’s consider that the last warning was issued the moment the Russian jets breached the Turkish airspace.
According to this scenario, we can draw a map showing the location of the jets, the moment warnings were issued:
(I’ll be using the map produced by The New York Times, and add circles for the warnings with the respective number of the warning- orange circles are warnings for the downed jet, the blue ones for the second Russian jet):*
https://mostlyoff.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/nyt-map.png?w=700
*This exercise can determine, approximately, that Turkish warnings began at a time when the Russian jets trajectories were not heading towards Turkey, but rather to the east, and away from Turkish border.
Obviously, the Turkish government and military can read into the future …*
They may have been reading the coffee cup.
A
Abba
Guest
Exactly. I am disappointed they played right into enemy’s hands. The plan has been layed out for Turkey from the beginning because it is a Muslim country.
And the narratives begin:
Can we trust Turkey to help fight terror? (no shame…because they are fighting terror)
video.foxnews.com/v/4632053019001/can-we-trust-turkey-to-help-fight-terror/?#sp=show-clips
Talk about stabbing in the back.
It’s a great deal to use Turkey to destroy Syria and then to possibly weaken Russia. Then when they are done with Syria and Iran, finish off Turkey.
They are enjoying Turkey this Thanksgiving - what a roast!
That’s a dangerous play, the Russians and Chinese are not sitting ducks. Not that I think they would resort to the nukes. They are responsible leaders and will do all possible to prevent mutual destruction.
+++
This activist has turned in his American passport. He wants the American people to take back command of Washington. Me too.
Former US Marine: President Obama should be tried for treason
rt.com/shows/sophieco/israel-former-us-marine-810/
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pepipop
Guest
That football match was extremely poor form, but got v. little press at the time. Of course, it’s now getting media attention. A lot had assumed Turkey as being ‘secular’, with no IS affiliations - but not if those fans are anything to go by!
- Status